Has Science lost its way?

[xelasnave]

Really has science lost its way.
I mean no one sticks a knitting needle behind their eye like Newton if doing research on the optic nerve. Instead they use some fancy computer model that does not even include a needle.
And all these thought experiments.
Once if you wanted to find out if a cat was dead in a box you just had to have a sniff but now days no. They dont use a real box or a real cat.
And there is concern from those who have obtained a good education on the net. that their contributions via better theories are not treated with the respect given to similar scientists at CERN or NASA. Why does the mainstream support the big bang theory as if it was the be all and end all when after all it is just a theory.
If they just looked at their "quantum theory" they would realise anything is possible.
They try and make it an exclusive club expecting you to have a fancy degree from some fancy University.
So what is going wrong.
Do you know they wont fund UFO research and just think how much we could learn from the aliens. They wont even believe all the sightings recorded on utube.
What do you think can be done to get science back on track?
Alex

[bojan]

Alex, you are bored, are you ?

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by bojan

Alex, are you bored ?

Always Bojan, but Peter raised a hint that he has problems with science so I thought a thread where concerns may be aired, rather than side track the other thread, would be helpful.
I am attempting satire in an effort to have contributors consider their views such that they may wish to distance themselves from the "nutter" who made the OP.
Alex

[glend (Glen)]

I was watching the SBS program last night on gravity propulsion systems, and the ex-NASA project director was bemoaning that fact that the budget was cancelled to get enough money to build yet another NASA building in some congress-person's state. So my 2 cents, scientific research is hamstrung by politicians vested interest, politicians who don't care about anything other than getting elected again ( and perhaps their NRA endorsement, which seems to be one in the same over there). Their 'future' extends only to the next election.
If we had something like the Future Fund, a Science Future Fund, that politicians could not get their hands on, great strides could be made, and any discoveries that end up making money see the money plowed back into the Science Fund. This would be a great incentive for kids to study STEM subjects, knowing there might be a job in their field.
My 2 cents.

[Somnium (Aidan)]

I predict this thread will be closed in 2 days ... Taking bets

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Somnium

I predict this thread will be closed in 2 days ... Taking bets

May only take just one post. But let all of us act in a way that sees the moderators not having to point out the obvious.
Nevertheless I would hope that if anyone believes a problem exists that we can address the concerns in our usual friendly manner.
I hope everyone understands the word satire and that the OP was my humorous way of kicking things off but feel free to explain the word theory in its scientific context to me if you don't know what satire means.
Alex

[xelasnave]

Hi Glen forgive me not quoting you but I am on my phone and near out of credit.
I don't know where you got the idea politicians only care about getting re elected. A good politician should be able to set himself up for life with just one term in office.
I missed that show the TV gets interference so it was just a pain to try and follow it.
I thought it was probably nonsense but what did you think?
I thought it was about the prospect of anti gravity which I am sure can not work which I will not go into but my words near my avitar may give a hint.
But you raise a good point re funding but how you would prevent even a fund from having problems is beyond me.
Thanks for contributing.
Alex

[Stonius (Markus)]

Originally Posted by glend

If we had something like the Future Fund, a Science Future Fund, that politicians could not get their hands on, great strides could be made, and any discoveries that end up making money see the money plowed back into the Science Fund. This would be a great incentive for kids to study STEM subjects, knowing there might be a job in their field.
My 2 cents.

plus one million what he said ^^^^^

[sn1987a (Barry)]

Meh!, it's a waste of time kids today studying STEM subjects.

Computer AIs are already on the job and are getting better exponentially. By the time the kids graduate computer AIs and automation will have already taken their entry level jobs anyway.

The only thing they'll have at the end of it all that STEMing is a massive HECS bill and the dole. Let's just all take it easy, kick back and watch the show!

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

.....
I missed that show the TV gets interference so it was just a pain to try and follow it.
I thought it was probably nonsense but what did you think?
I thought it was about the prospect of anti gravity which I am sure can not work which I will not go into but my words near my avitar may give a hint.
But you raise a good point re funding but how you would prevent even a fund from having problems is beyond me.
Thanks for contributing.
Alex

Alex, the program reviewed past research projects on gravity propulsion and the reasons they failed to achieve much, such as the M-Drive. It was not nonsense to me, but presented in a non-judgemental way, relying on scientific method and repeatability. The aspect of potential role of anti-gravity, if it can be called that was touched on, in the sense that the universe expansion is actually speeding up - so why, if gravity should be slowing it down and reversing expansion? What is the role of dark energy in the mix? We don't understand the expansion factors well enough yet. If we can find the reason for expansion, it may be a key for controlling gravity. That is what i saw in it, perhaps others saw thing differently.
There are a seemingly endless supply of 'pop' science type documentaries, and i admit i watch most of them, but this one stood up reasonably well on a subject that sometimes is seen as fantasy.

And Barry, are you suggesting we just turn over the world to SkyNet AI now? I still have faith in humans to solve problems in ways AI and their logic based approach just can't. Creativity, visualisation, coming at a problem from a different perspective, humans still do this well.

[xelasnave]

I had to laugh.AI is replacing lawyers.
The only job that will be safe is that of the humble plumber.Their maths is poor, I had one the other day, cause I am sure he had the decimal point a bit to far to the right on his bill.
But what will humans do in the future, besides the plumbers, what work will be available, will we need to work, I was born too early it seems.
Alex

[xelasnave]

Hi Glen
I had contented myself that I was not missing anything but it seems not.
I know folk think I am a crackpot when I suggest this but "they" have gravity a bit wrong in my view. Firstly the force of attraction does not exist we just wrote it in with no more than a belief such a force could work. I say it can not and if you try I doubt you can come up with a mechanism.
However if you see gravity as a flow of energy from all over the Universe, as do I, little issues like dark matter and dark energy disappear.
Now don't get me wrong GR I accept as our current model and it takes care of the math, something I can not do, but I have always thought GR sort to describe the flow of space that I suggest and maybe if tuned a little dark matter and dark energy would not come from the equations.
My only frustration is I spent years developing my idea only to find that Le Sage developed the idea in 1745. The idea is referred to as "push gravity" and looked down upon and jumped upon by GR advocates. However if things "work" along the lines I suggest for gravity it would be unlikely to have "anti gravity" .
If things work as I suggest it is easy to expect the outer stars in a galaxy will rotate faster because the force is external to the system, of course the universe should expand if all this energy is pushing, and as to dark matter if the force is external that may go a long way to explaining why the galaxies don't fly apart.
But they are my ideas and I don't expect others to see it my way and don't get upset the world does not agree so I would like to think I am different from your crank type.
Just a belief.
Alex

[Stonius (Markus)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

They try and make it an exclusive club expecting you to have a fancy degree from some fancy University.

But isn't that the problem right there? The death of the 'expert'? "My opinion is just as good as your science?".

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Do you know they wont fund UFO research and just think how much we could learn from the aliens. They wont even believe all the sightings recorded on utube.
Alex

Are you for real here? It's hard to tell?

[Atmos (Colin)]

I don't think that science has lost its way although from the OP I can understand what you mean Alex. The way that science is conducted has changed as has what is morally allowed in this day and age

The way that I like to think about it is that theoretical physicists are here to come up with various ideas to explain various things that we see. While astronomers are here to prove/disprove those theories, some as outlandish as they are!

I do also agree with Glen that politicians these days don't look far enough ahead, they don't look further than 3-4 years (their electoral term) which makes all of their policies about getting voted in again and not so much about what is best for the future of the country.

Just look at our current government, a few years ago we were in the midst of a budget emergency, now we're in a "budget what?" The reason being that fixing the budget before we lose our AAA rating will make people unhappy.

Moving away from politics Science isn't what it used to be, a lot of it has moved away from what the "ordinary" person can do because, for the most part, the "next big thing" requires billion dollar budgets. Try all we might, no one us will ever be able to detect one of the first stars to have existed, the Earth's atmosphere doesn't allow it (this is what JWST is for). None of us will be able to build a working cold fusion reactor because it is just too bloody dangerous!

As time moves on, new discoveries move further away from the general population because we need bigger, better and faster things to push the boundaries of what has already been done. We can come up with theories and mathematical proofs but we cannot test them, that is left to the professionals with the bigger, better and faster instruments.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Stonius

But isn't that the problem right there? The death of the 'expert'? "My opinion is just as good as your science?".



Are you for real here? It's hard to tell?

So my attempt at satire is lost upon you. But I can understand.
I actually think degrees are a good thing and for the record, although one should never eliminate any possibility,say that UFOs are simply objects we can't identify that seem to be flying but I doubt if they contain aliens.
Certainly we need not devote any time or effort to the mstter , I was being silly.
Alex

[xelasnave]

Hi Colin, thanks for contributing.
I am starting to think my humour is not working.
The idea was that I present like a nut job and I guess I can do that just too well. Oh well...
Anyways let's proceed on the basis I am a wacko and you can practice for the day you encounter a real one.
Alex

[Atmos (Colin)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Hi Colin, thanks for contributing.
I am starting to think my humour is not working.
The idea was that I present like a nut job and I guess I can do that just too well. Oh well...
Anyways let's proceed on the basis I am a wacko and you can practice for the day you encounter a real one.
Alex

Don't worry, I got your satire

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Hi Colin, thanks for contributing.
I am starting to think my humour is not working.
The idea was that I present like a nut job and I guess I can do that just too well. Oh well...
Anyways let's proceed on the basis I am a wacko and you can practice for the day you encounter a real one.
Alex

Whatever you are Alex, I admire that you raise these sort of questions. One man's wacko is another man's genius.

[Stonius (Markus)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

So my attempt at satire is lost upon you.

Ugh! Sorry, I tend to take people literally unless I see emoticons! :-)

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Stonius

Ugh! Sorry, I tend to take people literally unless I see emoticons! :-)

Not your fault. But smiley faces would have it sortted. I may edit and put some in but my reputation is probably mud by now..
I thought Peter could present his views but talking to him in the other thread he does not seem interested.
Alex