39% of Australians said No

[rally]

39% of Australia said "No" to providing their names to the Census !

This is great write up that illustrates some of the inner workings of the ABS and what led them to the greatest Census bungle and level of distrust in the history of Australia.

Code Red: How the Bureau of Statistics bungled the 2016 census

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...11-gqqpxf.html

Its interesting that the reason is all about the money and the motivation was from their report was - "no limit on what the ABS could link and charge for, so long as the names and addresses themselves were kept within the ABS."

Rally

[el_draco (Rom)]

Yep... I want Kalish, or should we rename him "koresh" toasted...

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Originally Posted by rally

39% of Australia said "No" to providing their names to the Census !

Sorry Rally, but that is not what the articles says.!

That part of the article (quoted below) is referring to the last question on the census which asks for permission for your name (already provided in Q2) to be kept by the National Archives of Australia, and then made publicly available after 99 years. (which is perfectly OK for respondents to decline)

When given the option of having their names and forms retained and stored in the archives for release a century later instead of being destroyed after processing, 39 per cent of Australians had said no.

I responded with my name in Question 2, BUT declined this last question about including it in the archive.

I could not see any reference or comment in your article, on how many refused to provide their names (or falsified them) in Question 2.
(which is technically an offence)

NONETHELESS:
I would have to agree the whole thing was a shamozzle!

[netwolf]

I dont get it so much coverage of Census when so many are willing to give up much more information on twitter and facebook. Yet the reports of abuse in Naru is just swept under the carpet.

[AndrewJ]

Gday Fahim
You need to understand the whole new world is based on how much money the govt can make from our data.
Nauru is a cost, not a producer of money, and hence will never rate a mention.
Andrew

[rally]

Sorry Allan - It was just the headline !!

The link provided is the source information.

The whole point is that 39% of Australia dont like the extraordinary change in Census personal information, they have taken upon themselves to do in order to make millions to the great potential detriment of the public.

There is 110 years of extremely well understood meaning and the intention of the Act surrounding the Census and they have unilaterally decided to do what suits their best interests.
There was no consultation, no referendum, no parliamentary debate, no legislative changes - and they deliberately and deceitfully sprang it on the public with no time to protest or stay the process.

Its not an offence to not provide your name because they dont have the right to force you to provide it in the first place !
A point that seems lost on so many.

Its optional and entirely voluntary and they have been relying on this approach for years.
But they are portraying otherwise and that is neither legal nor ethical and we should expect much better of our government agencies and demand better when they fail.

I am sure that half the problem that has occurred is due to civil disobedience because that is the only mechanism that most average aussies can take.

Originally Posted by Allan_L

Sorry Rally, but that is not what the articles says.!

That part of the article (quoted below) is referring to the last question on the census which asks for permission for your name (already provided in Q2) to be kept by the National Archives of Australia, and then made publicly available after 99 years. (which is perfectly OK for respondents to decline)



I responded with my name in Question 2, BUT declined this last question about including it in the archive.

I could not see any reference or comment in your article, on how many refused to provide their names (or falsified them) in Question 2.
(which is technically an offence)

NONETHELESS:
I would have to agree the whole thing was a shamozzle!

[Stonius (Markus)]

Originally Posted by netwolf

I dont get it so much coverage of Census when so many are willing to give up much more information on twitter and facebook. Yet the reports of abuse in Naru is just swept under the carpet.

+1 to that.

I can only assume it's because people being tortured on Naru has no impact on our little lives here, but someone *might steal our census data, which might possibly affect us here.

Wrong priorities, if you ask me. Especially when they conflate the victims of terrorism with the terrorists themselves, ignoring long-standing international laws, the list goes on...

It costs a ridiculous amount now, and will cost even more when the lawsuits come in...

Markus

[rally]

Markus,

Last year an ABS employee together with a a NAB employee were gaoled for stealing and misuse of privileged secure confidential ABS information !

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-1...rading/6324526

So you can say "might", and that is true, but its already been happening and thats only what we know about.
This next dataset provides extreme motive for misuse - they have never had such a treasure trove of valuable personal data before like this and there will surely be those who would be prepared to pay much for it.
After all it cost the ABS nearly 0.5 $billion to collect and collate it.

The vast majority of data thefts are unknown, undiscovered, unable to be quantified and rarely publicly reported . . . after the Census debarcle and all lies and nonsense that the ABS came out with - its pretty clear they arent in the business of full disclosure and transparency - on the contrary - I think on the basis of their proven performance and public statements we can safely distrust anything they do or say as self interest and power are far more powerful motives for them !

Originally Posted by Stonius

+1 to that.

. . . . , but someone *might steal our census data, which might possibly affect us here.

Wrong priorities, if you ask me. . . . .

Markus

[Stonius (Markus)]

Originally Posted by rally

Markus,

Last year an ABS employee together with a a NAB employee were gaoled for stealing and misuse of privileged secure confidential ABS information !

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-1...rading/6324526

So you can say "might", and that is true, but its already been happening and thats only what we know about.
This next dataset provides extreme motive for misuse - they have never had such a treasure trove of valuable personal data before like this and there will surely be those who would be prepared to pay much for it.
After all it cost the ABS nearly 0.5 $billion to collect and collate it.

The vast majority of data thefts are unknown, undiscovered, unable to be quantified and rarely publicly reported . . . after the Census debarcle and all lies and nonsense that the ABS came out with - its pretty clear they arent in the business of full disclosure and transparency - on the contrary - I think on the basis of their proven performance and public statements we can safely distrust anything they do or say as self interest and power are far more powerful motives for them !

I agree that the likelihood of a leak is high. But I think at this point in human history we have to recognise that the horse has bolted. There is no secure private information anymore. We live in a post-privacy era. Privacy is simply incompatible with information networks who's main purpose is to distribute information, not restrict it. Authorities have the right to demand that information, but they have no real ability to guarantee that that data will be safe.

But even so, an invasion of privacy is worlds apart from torture and physical/sexual abuse, hence why it's the bigger problem here. Sheesh, even the Nazi's didn't vote for concentration camps, but we did, in full knowledge of what was going on there.

Oops, did I just invoke Godwin's Law? :-)

-Markus

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by Stonius

I agree that the likelihood of a leak is high. But I think at this point in human history we have to recognise that the horse has bolted. There is no secure private information anymore. We live in a post-privacy era. Privacy is simply incompatible with information networks who's main purpose is to distribute information, not restrict it. Authorities have the right to demand that information, but they have no real ability to guarantee that that data will be safe.

But even so, an invasion of privacy is worlds apart from torture and physical/sexual abuse, hence why it's the bigger problem here. Sheesh, even the Nazi's didn't vote for concentration camps, but we did, in full knowledge of what was going on there.

Oops, did I just invoke Godwin's Law? :-)

-Markus

These are completely separate issues and implying that giving up control of your data to some government demigod is not an issue because people are being held on Naru is a distraction. Naru is just a stupid policy in place by a stupid government.

Grabbing your personal data for monetary gain in breach of the Privacy Act and allowing these parasites to get away with it, is the kind of stupidity that allows them to think they can get away with Naru scenarios in the first place.

How quickly some people are prepared to give in when it comes to this crappy behaviour. If you let them get away with abusing you directly, why it's so much easier for them to think it's okay to abuse anyone else. Be careful, before you know it they'll set up detention centres for Australians where abuse is "acceptable". No wait... They already have... Don dale ring a bell?

[xelasnave]

It would be nice if the government called upon the ABS to destroy records of names to ease the public concern and demonstrate they recognise and act on public concern.
What stinks is the ABS is now a revenue cash cow rather than a body to gather information to guide policy.
Alex

[AndrewJ]

Gday Alex

It would be nice if the government called upon the ABS to destroy records

Except the govt want the data more than the ABS. Its an Australia card on steroids for them.
I wouldnt be surprised if they knowingly let the ABS cop a bit of flack, whilst quietly assuring them that all is well, it will blow over soon, then back to business under the new model.

Andrew

[AussieTrooper (Ben)]

Originally Posted by netwolf

I dont get it so much coverage of Census when so many are willing to give up much more information on twitter and facebook. Yet the reports of abuse in Naru is just swept under the carpet.

It is a legal obligation for all Australians to fill out the census. There is no choice, and we are paying for it. Hence when it stuffs up, it is a big issue.

Those who ended up in Nauru chose to come to Australia, we didn't invite them. They knew this kind of thing could happen, and chose to bypass numerous other countries to end up there.

Two totally different issues.

[AussieTrooper (Ben)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Gday Alex


Except the govt want the data more than the ABS. Its an Australia card on steroids for them.
I wouldnt be surprised if they knowingly let the ABS cop a bit of flack, whilst quietly assuring them that all is well, it will blow over soon, then back to business under the new model.

Andrew

Interesting take on it, and one that sounds very plausible.

Departments and privatised government services cop the flak over what is really a government decision that they were forced into on a regular basis.

I haven't filled out the census yet , and when I eventually do, they won't be getting accurate information from me.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by AussieTrooper

I haven't filled out the census yet , and when I eventually do, they won't be getting accurate information from me.

That's a good start.

I'll fight them in court. Coercion can't, (yet), be enforced when so many reputable commentators have stated on the record that this census was a blatant breach of the law and that the ABS can't be trusted with our information. The ABS was warned, on the record, that this would happen and went ahead with it. We have a civil responsibility to defy this rubbish and the more people who stand up to them the better.

[Stonius (Markus)]

Originally Posted by el_draco

These are completely separate issues and implying that giving up control of your data to some government demigod is not an issue because people are being held on Naru is a distraction. Naru is just a stupid policy in place by a stupid government.

Grabbing your personal data for monetary gain in breach of the Privacy Act and allowing these parasites to get away with it, is the kind of stupidity that allows them to think they can get away with Naru scenarios in the first place.

How quickly some people are prepared to give in when it comes to this crappy behaviour. If you let them get away with abusing you directly, why it's so much easier for them to think it's okay to abuse anyone else. Be careful, before you know it they'll set up detention centres for Australians where abuse is "acceptable". No wait... They already have... Don dale ring a bell?

Not saying they're the same issue, nor saying that the census screw-up isn't an issue, just agreeing with Netwolf that the two issues have disproportionate amounts of outrage attached. No-one has yet set themselves on fire because of the census, though that remains to be seen, as Turnbull may opt for burning at the stake for those responsible...

Markus

[Shano592 (Shane)]

My wife filled out the census last Tuesday, and had saved her part in time for the big meltdown. I believe it was 50 questions that she had to answer.

I did my part today, and because I was not home on the night in question, I only had to answer 10, and most of that was pre-filled from Sue's answers.

I reckon the most invasive question they asked me was my name. They already have that, courtesy of Border Force, Immigration, Australian Taxation Office, and any other Federal Government body I have had to interact with recently. And I'm certain that ABS have a flag on me anyway. More than twice, I have told them what I think of them, in very specific terms.

As far as I know, on this occasion I (will have in the future) wasted their time more than the reverse!

[Satchmo]

All you guys getting in a lather about giving the government info they already know should check the permissions on all the random apps you have on your smart phone .

Pretty much most of your apps have access to far far more info than the census including your movements and your emails and contacts lists and photos and I can be sure that you have no idea where that data will go or how it will be used .

[doppler (Rick)]

They already have all the data, why bother with the expense of a census then?

[LewisM]

Oh dear...this years was the first census I have filled out in 20 years... will there be a backlog of $180/day x 20 years?

It was just such a brain drain (NOT) filling it out online too - all of 8 minutes of my time giving 100% bogus answers {like my name was Hugh Jarse}. What's all the big fuss about really? Use the grey matter and, oh my Gosh - lie...are they going to challenge your [mis]information?

Get real. I sometimes wonder about the sheep mentality of so many Australians...they'll get me if I don't tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.