hysteria in the streets, temperatures below average

[Argonavis (William)]

The streets of Australia were alive with hysteria today as thousands protested the lack of government action against "global warming"

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...003402,00.html

No doubt afterwards they all drove home in their cars with a warm feeling of satisfaction.

Brisbane was mostly rained out with temperatures 5 degrees below average.

Also in the real world, I can across this interesting series of videos:

http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=3

The more I look at the data, the less I am convinced.

[avandonk]

OK I'll take the bait. These assertions have no basis in reality. They are promulgated by people who have no expertise but sell their name to the naysaying of over 1300 peer reviewed papers published in reputable journals.
They are in the pay directly or indirectly of large energy companies who do not like the truth.
These people sound very glib, but there is no longer any doubt WE are causing global warming by our everyday activities.

I won't waste any more time on these twits.

But I urge you all to look at the real evidence not mindless assertions.

Bert

[matt]

I'm so confused about the whole issue ... it hurts my head!

[avandonk]

It is very simple Matt. Global warming due to our burning of fossil fuels is real. The evidence now is overwhelming. The people you saw in those videos were arguing their claptrap while the jury was still out.
They are all on the fringes of science. The name should give it away. Science does not need friends it needs very good practioners. That means sceptical well educated people who can look at the evidence and draw some rational evidence based conclusions.

Here are a few scary facts

The tundra in Siberia is melting. This is where frozen whole hairy mammoth elephants are found. I have heard they serve steaks from these animals for a price. These animals have been extinct for more than 5k or 10k years.

The forests of north America and Canada are being devastated by a beetle that never previously could not survive so far north due to the cold. The trees have no natural resistance.

The Antarctic ice sheet and sea ice is receding at at unprecedented rate.

I can go on and on and on...


They lied in the video. Ice core records of CO2 concentration in the Earth's atmosphere are closely correlated with temperature. The ancient temperature of the Earth can be ascertained by isotopic ratios of elements in these very same ice cores. How this is done is by analysing the bubbles trapped in the ice. I have personally had a whisky and ice with 200,000 year old ice. When the ice gets thin near a bubble it causes a mini explosion as the gas is trapped at a very high pressure. These mini explosions cause the glass to tinkle and you can see the ice moving randomly.

Bert

[matt]

What "makes my head hurt" is the fact both sides of the great Global Warming Divide present such convincing and compelling arguments.

I am well aware of the evidence both sides use to argue their respective cases.

It's my hope we (the human race) don't continue this bickering to the point where we wake up one day and it's all too late, if indeed that's the path we're heading down.

[Mick (Michael)]

It is fascinating some of the stuff that bubbles into GC, I like reading it all. I guess I fall into the I don't know group not the I don't care group and most of the time I don't have much to say because I don't have a solution. I found the following link searching for the meaning of life?

http://users.aristotle.net/~diogenes/insane.htm

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Forget Brisbane, Sydney, New York, Paris. What is the global trend??? Do tell me because I don't really know. All I know is Melbourne summers have had more of a tropical feel in recent years...

With a chaotic system like the weather you can always find many local exceptions to a global trend. That's the nature of the beast. And this can be easily exploited to build a convincing, yet ultimately false, argument against the global trend whatever that might be.

[acropolite (Phil)]

Argo, I suggest you research a little more, start with a google search for "global dimming" then try one for "drought forestry burnoff". On a recent flight across bass strait I saw severe pollution extending all the way across the pond and up to our cruising altitude at approximately 30,000ft. In all my years I have never experienced such pollution. We have had 2 years of extended dry weather in Tasmania (from November through to April) conicident with huge increase in forestry burnoff in the north of our state. Take a look at the whole picture then make a conclusion.

[Dujon]

Originally Posted by avandonk

I have personally had a whisky and ice with 200,000 year old ice.

Bert

You philistine, you. The fact that the ice is older than the whisky does not excuse you from such a travesty. Hrmph.

On the main subject: I'm in the 'don't know' camp. Is it us? Is it natural? You know what I mean. Regardless of the effects of our exploitation of the planet I do believe though that pollution must be reduced and that we must become more environmentally friendly. If not for us (though it does affect us in the long run) then for the native flora and fauna.

[Argonavis (William)]

Originally Posted by acropolite

Argo, I suggest you research a little more, start with a google search for "global dimming" then try one for "drought forestry burnoff". On a recent flight across bass strait I saw severe pollution extending all the way across the pond and up to our cruising altitude at approximately 30,000ft. In all my years I have never experienced such pollution. We have had 2 years of extended dry weather in Tasmania (from November through to April) conicident with huge increase in forestry burnoff in the north of our state. Take a look at the whole picture then make a conclusion.

I am not sure how GW specualtion relates to burnoff, except both are caused by too many people using too much of the Earth's rescources. Of course, our ecology has evolved to some extent to need burn off, and during some atmospheric conditions it will hang around. I suspect the forestry industry knows this and when felling timber burns the area to allow germination of the next generation of trees. This would make it a sustainability practice.

There was a previous premier of Victoria who claimed that pollution was not a problem because Melbourne was a windy city. Fortunately we live in more enlightened times.

[seeker372011 (Narayan)]

The debate seems to go along the lines

-its not really getting any warmer
-well even if it is it's happened before
-we didnt cause it so we dont need to do anything about it

I read Michael Crichton's last book in which he portrays the environmentalists as murderers and terrorists- and that seems to be the attitude of a lot of the people on one side of the argument-denigrate the opposition and then cloud the issue with "scientific facts". This book made me vomit, it was so one sided
Its time to be afraid. very afraid.

[Argonavis (William)]

Originally Posted by avandonk

OK I'll take the bait. These assertions have no basis in reality. They are promulgated by people who have no expertise but sell their name to the naysaying of over 1300 peer reviewed papers published in reputable journals.
They are in the pay directly or indirectly of large energy companies who do not like the truth.
These people sound very glib, but there is no longer any doubt WE are causing global warming by our everyday activities.

I won't waste any more time on these twits.

But I urge you all to look at the real evidence not mindless assertions.

Bert

Bert - this sounds like Greenpeace propaganda. You are dismissing evidence based on ad hominem attackes and appeal to supposed authority.

There is ample room for grave doubts as to what the data is actually saying, and none of this comes out in the popular media, which merely parrots the green line.

There has been a small increase in temperatures of about 0.6 degrees C over the last 20 years, but the trend is not linear as CO2 forcing would indicate. It could even be just a variation around a mean.

There is just too much wild speculation and hysteria around this, based on models with garbage in-garbage out scenarios. The long term trends are really unknown, and do not justify spending billion of dollars of our childrens inheritance on measures that are useless and possibly pointless.

It also gives politicians an easy out, as the drought is blamed on "global warming" not on their manifest inadequacies to plan a water supply for the growth in population.

[Argonavis (William)]

Originally Posted by seeker372011

The debate seems to go along the lines

-its not really getting any warmer
-well even if it is it's happened before
-we didnt cause it so we dont need to do anything about it

I read Michael Crichton's last book in which he portrays the environmentalists as murderers and terrorists- and that seems to be the attitude of a lot of the people on one side of the argument-denigrate the opposition and then cloud the issue with "scientific facts". This book made me vomit, it was so one sided
Its time to be afraid. very afraid.

Sounds like your mind is already made up.

Michael Crichton's book "Climate of Fear" uses the usual literary devices to tell a story. It is no worse than claiming that anyone who dares to question global warming is paid by the evil oil industry. I especially liked Crichton's comparison of global warming science to eugenics in the early 20th C - dodgy science used to support political positions. It is a signature lesson on being afraid of the herd mentality.

Yes it is time to be very afraid, when public policy is based on mere speculation and hysteria.

[ving (David)]

bringeth on the next ice age i say!

the ice age cometh!


we only know what we have been told and on both sides it is more than likely biased information... scare mongering is a reality and we know that.

what happens? time will tell i guess. my guess (repeat guess) is we impact this "global warming" but no where near as much as we think we do. its a natural cycle, polar caps melt, the earth is flooded, water freezes, melts, ice receedes... etc... anyhow thats just my opinion.

this line of converstation always get heated

[xelasnave]

There are those who are genuine in their concern that humans are doing the damage, and those who do not give a hoot but have yellow cake to sell and they have the only answer. ..safe, cheap N power.. Mr Howard has not seemed too concerned until the recent statement which he in effect said.. Global warming is upon us we cant deny it so lets cook a sponge cake that will fix it.. mmm If you cant think yellow cake you are not "real" ...here is your script Mr Howard do you think you can rember all of it.. AND unfortunately such statements carry for so many... dont want N power well you are not real .. you dont care enough about the planet to put in N power stations ..you "unreal" world warmer you ... And to stand against it is just scare mongering and taking away from this produces safe reputation and future benefit to save man from himself ... Selling at its best.
Funny that Doctor David Suzuki was in town the same days as the yellow cake oven salesmen... coincidence that he is here to warn us and they are here to save us...with an address in the 3rd house of parliment "the national press club".. so the issue was thrust as hard as it could be in everyones face so Mr Howard's statement may have seemed reasonable to some...Politics and lobbying its so transparent not manty see it
Its an industry folks like terror, like drugs, like war... but someone makes money from this fear, just figure who and you kindda feel better..after first feeling worse... but nothing will change except the concentration of wealth in the energy resources area. Get ready to get your boots wet I recon and glow in the dark.

alex

[Ric]

Global warming can be a natural event caused by volcanic activity or meteorite strikes when the planet was young, as a result of this there has been mass extinctions of both animal and plant life throughout the various epochs. The Earth has recovered from these events but has taken millions of years to do so, That I learnt in first year Geology at Uni.

Now we see the same conditions arising again but the Earths volcanic activity is a fraction of what it was when it was younger and I certainly haven't heard of any large scale meteorite strikes recently so something must be causing it and it seems that these temps/pollution levels have risen since the start of the industrial era and the widespread removal of forests.

You can listen to the arguments for and against by scientists and politicians, but all you have to do look at what is happening around us, the conditions speak for themselves.


cheers