Organising an Observing session for a primary school

[JohnH]

I have not done this before so I would appreciate advice and tips, do's and dont's etc. I will bring my 8" scope and binos on a tripod. Some of the kids and dads may have scopes to bring along. Children will be 8-10 age group, I assume I should ask for a parent to supervise.

What about targets to view, I guess I should go for the moon (and Jupiter) rather than DSOs....so I want about a 1/4 moon.

Anyone prepped any handouts or similar for such occasions I can plagiarise?

[ving (David)]

if you contact the forum member astronut (aka john) he has done this kinda thing before and should be able to tell you heaps

[iceman (Mike)]

Hi John.

I've done a couple, once at my son's kindergarten, and once at his Scout group.

The kindergartens were too young, the scouts were just about right, so anywhere from 6+ yrs old is the right audience.

I planned it around having a moon and a planet in the sky at the time, so a first quarter moon is ideal, and with Jupiter overhead from dusk you can't go wrong there.

I wouldn't try showing any faint stuff, some bright DSO's would be ok, like some nice star clusters (jewelbox, omega centauri, etc).

Kids also love to hear about the scale of things, how far to the sun, the (other) nearest star, etc. and relate it to things like driving, bus to school etc.

Supervision is probably required, at least, you'll need them to form an orderly line, explain to them where to look, where not to touch, what they should see. You might need a step ladder or crate for them to stand on too.

You'll also need to be prepared to jump in between each kid to make sure the object is still in the FOV. Nothing worse than a kid saying "ah yeah, that's excellent", and then you go and have a look, and find it wasn't in the FOV at all

I found that the parents (of the scout group) loved it moreso than the kids! I'm planning to go back there again soon.

Good luck!

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

I agree with the general comments...I've been involved in a number for primary schools...please keep your sense of humour and don't take anything that you aren't prepared to get dirty...

Moon and Planets are great targets...Bright DSO only (don't try the faint stuff) a double star is kind of fun too...

Remeber in this instance "less is truly more"...make it simple and sharp...

A small step stool is essential (IMO) and enough supervison of adults to keep everyone in line...

I've found kids much younger than year 1 (there are exceptions) are difficult...but craters on the moon are always cool.

While hectic, they are still lots of fun because you'll see that spark and interest in things astronomical get started in someone that night...and that for me is part of the fun.

[ving (David)]

i'd probably save jupiter till late tho as its probably the biggest drawcard... dont start with a bang and go out with a fizz start soft with open clusters and globs (bright ones of course) and then go for the big guns. it'll keep them interested for longer... in theory

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

If you can get hold of a green laser to outline the milky way and point to some easily seen eyeball stuff (LMC and explain what it is, how far away etc, etc), that is always a buzz for them. 1st rule though is, no-one, not even the adults are allowed to use the laser! And not just for safety reasons, if one has a go, they all want to have a go and the night gets out of hand

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

I have also done this sorta stuff quite a lot in the past, for both school groups and adult community groups. The advice you have already received is good. I will add a few more thoughts.

1) Having a tracking scope is an advantage and a disadvantage for this type of show. The advantage is that it allows you to use higher powers and keep the object in the FOV. This is good for the moon and the planets. In a dob you need to use lower powers otherwise the kids continually lose the target.

The disadvantage is that the eq mount will get the eyepiece into higher more awkward positions for the kids. In this regard an 8" or 10" dob is a lot easier for them to use. Make sure you take a small set of steps to go with the eq mounted newt.

2) A green laser pointer is ESSENTIAL. That alone will keep 95% of the kids occupied and intrigued for 95% of the evening. Just don't let the kids play with the laser, you keep control of it.

3)If you have eyepieces with comfortable eye-relief these suit the kids a lot better than eyepieces with short eye-relief. Then again you can't use something you don't have.

4) Do the moon and Jupiter at medium power. Then do all the DSO's at medium to low power.

5) As others have said stay with the bright DSO's. 14th magnitude galaxies in an 8" scope aren't gonna WOW them.
Big Globs are good
Big Emission Nebula are good
Big bright open clusters are good
Bright and colourful double stars are good eg Albireo, Gamma Delphinus etc

CS and Good Luck !!! - John B

[Rodstar (Rod)]

I too have run a number of observing sessions for groups, ranging in ages from 3 year olds to 80 year olds, and in numbers from 3 to 15. I was also a school teacher for 7 years. Here's my two bobs' worth:

1. A lot of people have great difficulty knowing how to look through a telescope. They often struggle to recognise the EP, let alone know how far from the EP to place their eye. For this reason, the first object needs to be easy, and bright. I recommend the Moon, as the bright light coming through the EP acts as an excellent guide. This gives people a good first experience, and will act as a tremendous motivator for hanging around to view some other objects.

2. People with no astronomical knowledge have no hope of understanding anything at all complex in their first session (for example, no one has a clue about emission nebulae or planetary nebulae if you try to explain them). Sticking with familiar objects, and providing simple explanations has the best impact. For example, other than the moon (which all people feel drawn to and fascinated by), and the larger planets Jupiter and Saturn, in my experience colour-contrasted doubles work a treat. People understand what a star is, and seeing two differently coloured stars next to each other amazes people, and provides an avenue for explaining a bit about how stars work.

3. Teaching people more about objects they already recognise can promote interest. For example, showing the double in Rigel Kent (Alpha Centaurus) never ceases to amaze adults who know about the "Two Pointers" but nothing more.

4. Galaxies are pretty much a complete waste of time. In such a public viewing situation, you will not have skies dark enough to see any galaxy clearly through direct observation, and no newcoming will have any clue about averted vision. Much better to stick to bright and beautiful, especially nice open clusters, and perhaps the brighter globs. Most really like simple open clusters like M6 (Butterfly) or the Jewel Box.

5. If you have a lot of people in the group, it is helpful to have at least two scopes. People (esp. children) quickly get bored, especially in the cold in the dark! Because of the time spent letting everyone have a look, you will also find that you get through only a very small number of objects, so you should make every object a winner!

6. I often find the best conversations develop away from the EP, as people who have looked at something and know there will be some time before the next object, want to chat about some astro-related idea. Some questions will tempt you to give a very detailed answer. Avoid the temptation. Keep all of your explanations as simple as you can.

7. I find that the night sky has a charm all of its own. When I started, I felt some pressure to do the "hard sell", and convince people of the wonder of the Cosmos. From experience I have seen that heavens will woo some and not others, and often without any necessary input from me.

8. Sometimes using a theme to tie the objects together can work well. To one adult group, I used the concept of time. We started by an explanation of how fast light travels, then looked at objects progressively further away, starting with a few objects in the solar system where ligth may have travelled for 1 hour, then to some nearby stars (eg Vega, 25 years), then further away star (eg one 2000 years), then a glob or open cluster (perhaps 20,000 years), etc. Often it helps to give an earth event that corresponds to the time that the light left that object in its journey to earth. Now that really does amaze some adults!

Good luck!

[norm]

Hi,

I was just checking the web and this site seems to have some interesting ideas:

http://sciencespot.net/Pages/classastrolsn.html

I like the one about Toilet Paper Solar System! It seems to be a novel way of explaining the distances of planets within the Solar System.

Good luck with the challenge, I think the 'wows' you'll get will be very rewarding.

[h0ughy (David)]

yep what they all said, but Paul is dangerous with a green laser

a step ladder is a must, and have one with a top rail/hanlde for the m to hold rather than the mount or scope

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

The best advice I can give concerning kids at the scope is 'Make It Fun'.

Never talk in scientific terms (light-years, hydrogen etc) and be excited when you look at something. That makes them WANT to see it too.

Don't show them nebs then planets then Moon. They must be shown in order and with growing excitement. I start with Moon then planets. Then I will excitedly say "would you like to see something even further away?" Then show then 47Tuc or Omega Cent. Then say "how about something even further away!" This is where you can show them Orion neb (if in the sky). If that hasn't got them tingling by now, you can add, "Now how about something in another Galaxy!!!" and show them Tarantula!

If you want to keep them interested, you will have to put on a show. Get animated, make it exciting, growing in intensity. If you get excited, they will too.

I am usually exhausted after using this method coz I put heaps of growing excitement into it for them and my jaw aches from laughing

Also, kids like to ask questions like 'how far is that?' I won't let myself get bogged down in technical numbers that they don't grasp, so I say things like 'about a squillion gazillion kilometres away' and let then know I am joking, and I sometimes say silly things like "about a zillion zillion times around your oval". That one usually gets a 'Wow!'

You should enjoy it as much as them, so have fun with them. Works for me.
I avoid being serious with kids, coz 'serious' ain't fun, and fun creates interest.

[Astroman (Andrew Wall)]

Man where were you when I did science Ken, squillion gazillion kilometres away sounds better than 3.63 ^10-6. m/s/s

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Hey, most Adults have trouble comprehending 'Light Years' so kids don't have much hope. I have a couple of times explained the true distances and 'Light Speed' but it's just 'out there' to most folk.

So why not make it fun instead of confusing. Plus, kids have a good laugh at sayings like 'Squillion Gazillion' coz they know I am only joking.

[JohnH]

Thanks to all for the ideas, the session finally went ahead on 24th Oct, my birthday and the date of the Moon/Mercury/Jupiter conjunction which made a very pretty sight as the sun set and meant we had a chance to observe from 6:30 pm onwards despite the time of year, important when the kids are young and need to get to bed (school day next day).

It went pretty well - I had about 25 children and 10 adults (more than planned - a few brought friends along and I had not counted on so much interest from the adults). I had two scopes and tripod mounted binos available and a couple of helpers to ensure that everyone got a change to see all the objects.

We observed:

The conjunction between the 2 day old moon, Mercury and Jupiter. Binos showed all 3 nicely (as did the naked eye!), the scopes showing Moon and Mercury and moon alone.

As it got darker we were able to see the shadowed side of the Moon illuminated by light reflected very pretty Earthshine and make out craters and the maria.

One scope was then switched to Jupiter and three moons Io, Ganymeade and Calliosto showed well, Europa was inside the disk of Jupiter and I could not make it out as Jupiter was very low by the time we moved onto it a higher magnification.

The second scope was pointed to Mercury at higher magnification

Then we did a little tour:

The double star system Rigel Kentarus (they were happy to recognise the pointers and did not know that this is also known as Alpha Cetauri - which includes our closest stellar neighbour - proxima)

47 Tucanae (VCL200)
M7 (Binos)
M8 (ETX90)

We also starhopped two constellations - Scorpio and Saggitarius with the laser pointer which was a big wow.

BAD points -

The ALT clutch on the ETX slipped, tightening it sheared of the adjutment knob - had to point that one by hand after that - and I am a GOTO guy...

I did not get to ALIGN either GOTO scope accurately - this was a new site for me the scopes were only levelled and aligned roughly with a bubble level and a compass. The software alignment required darkness - but would also take time - at that point I had a queue of eagar observers so I never did aligns, the goto was therefore horrid requiring me to star hop onto the objects in a very light polluted site while answering a non-stop stream of questions - and I am a GOTO guy...

Overall it was an enjoyable and challenging evening. I will happily do it again but I will take the time to align and choose a darker site - from the sports field with bright lights at less than 100m away visual min mag was 4.

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by JohnH

The software alignment required darkness - but would also take time - at that point I had a queue of eagar observers so I never did aligns

I did a school group on Monday 23rd out near Ringwood and had a similar problem. We had 6 scopes and about 50 or so kids and adults. They were supposed to come onto the field around 7:30 but I was still waiting for it to get dark enough to see any alignment stars. Fortunately the lecture we were giving them in the hall got them out around 8:00 so I had enough time, just, to get a suitable alignment.

We have another tonight (Thursday) in Mordialloc with maybe 50 people. The problem this time of year is that all the "good stuff" is pretty low. I will have a look to pick out some bright stuff when everyone has seen what was set up first.

Next Monday we have one with more than 250!