For the last few nights whilst observing the GRS and some of my favourite doubles, eg- Iota Cancri ,145 Canis Majoris, and Beta Monocerotis; I thought to myself, why not have a crack at Sirius B, AKA the "PUP".
The first two nights proved fruitless due to the less than excellent seeing required; still I persisted till midnight on the 24th at my house in Concord , even though work beckons in the morn.
The "PUP" being about some 10.5" from the primary. If you can imagine Sirius A being at the center of a clock then Sirius B would be at 9 oclock - East or a little North of that; but this depends on the scope and diagonal used, my 2" di-electric is reversed East-West but upright, so it would be on the West side then.
At magnitude 8.6 with the glare of Sirius A it should prove very difficult and it was.
I tried all kinds of tricks , including letting Sirius A drift in or out of the field of view so its glare would be mitigated and the PUP easier to see, filters including red, also observing at twilight so A would be less brilliant compared to B, even thought of making an obstruction mask.
Success though came at midnight when there were moments of steady seeing , just past the meridian; it was here that I inserted a 17.3 Delos in a 7" Mak I have - no luck, then I tried a 13mm type 6 Nagler, still no luck; it was then that I decided to use one of my old style Parks 5mm Gold series EP for a lark -VOILA!!
There it was very faint, and well outside the diffraction rings -unmistakable; this was at a mag of about 560x!!!
I had been looking in the diffraction rings mostly and not so much outside with all these EP'S, and this is what you must do plus highish power at this separation now, to literally separate the "PUP" from the primary.
Im glad I have finally bagged this elusive object after all these years of half hearted attempts.
It would be interesting to see if others, esp with apo's have a crack also.
PS: Ghosting sometimes appears and you think you have found it - but alas - so keep at it!
Cheers bigjoe.
Last edited by bigjoe; 01-03-2016 at 04:43 PM.
Reason: more appropriate title
Yesterday night I tried with the ED110 with a WO dielectric diagonal and an LV6 eyepiece (128x), but lots of speckles and NO Sirius B. Maybe the seeing can be better ?
Yesterday night I tried with the ED110 with a WO dielectric diagonal and an LV6 eyepiece (128x), but lots of speckles and NO Sirius B. Maybe the seeing can be better ?
Loverly setup you have Skysurfer.
I wouldn't give up though, the diffraction rings have to be unbroken concentric, so very good seeing near the meridian, even if fleetingly is all you need, and higher power probably double what you've used to separate the PUP from the primary.
Your equipment should be ideal for this
Keep it going.
PS: Seeing is everything here; absolutely no speckling-it will mask the PUP.
Good observation Joe - I will pay that one. So many reports of Sirius B I count as "spurious" - especially those North American reports on CN where the elevation is low.
If you cannot easily pick up the companion of nearby Adhara with a mag of around 100X, then you will have no chance of Sirius B.
I have only seen it a couple of times with my masked off 18", and magnification of 292X
An excellent result Joe. Lots of patience and perseverance are the keys to bagging difficult targets as you have shown.
I have had two serious attempts this summer to observe the Pup, but no success to date. Shall "persevere"!
Had a go at it in December last year. Very hard to get. I don't know how you guys do it visually. It was up close to the zenith and the seeing was very good.
Good observation Joe - I will pay that one. So many reports of Sirius B I count as "spurious" - especially those North American reports on CN where the elevation is low.
If you cannot easily pick up the companion of nearby Adhara with a mag of around 100X, then you will have no chance of Sirius B.
I have only seen it a couple of times with my masked off 18", and magnification of 292X
On a work break so I though I would write on some of these nice responses.
Thanks John, Steve and Marc.
I agree that most reports would be spurious as it seems next to impossible at times to see it ; could it be ghosting etc. I found that I had to nudge the EP a number of times and use averted vision to confirm, also at times -it's sooo faint in comparison to the primary its not funny.
I would imagine that expecting to see it anywhere away from near zenith would be impossible visually.
When using the Mak I felt; if you cannot drive a Mak truck (pun intended)
through Rigels loverly pair as a test- then don't bother, as that is what i'd done just prior, and my wife was in awe of this pairs colour contrast.
Rigel has a similar separation so I though, why not try again!
The PUP appeared perhaps the colour of a tiny Uranus to my eyes past all the diffraction rings just were it should be -one of the biggest astro thrills of my life-When I was a youth circa 1980, I remember reading people with 6" unitrons had seen it- I only had the 4" (from AOS) at the time - of course no luck.
So Steve and all it's doable, but next to impossible at the same time,
most would be left in utter frustration I feel and just give up thinking what do I have to do; well nothing really, but WAIT for the right conditions, and I would say high magnifications well above 200x in apertures above 4" as it is very faint- seems less than 8.6 because of the primary.
So good luck all out there, and as usual- GIVE DOUBLES A GO!!
Cheers bigjoe.
Last edited by bigjoe; 25-02-2016 at 03:57 PM.
Reason: add
I reckon this is one that once you see it it's impossible to miss thereafter.
Last saw it with my 10" Newt around 3 in the morning, eyepiece was an ES 14 82º giving 85x. To my eyes the pup is a green dot. The E+F stars in the trap were also easily seen that time. Also seen it with my f12 6" refractor with an ES 28 68º giving 64x. I think less mags is better. It reduces the glare of Sirius....seeing plays a big part and decent optics. I tried for a year with a 6" f8 Synta refractor but never really saw it, thought I did a few times but couldn't be sure.
I find Antares a bit harder than Sirius...finally got that one too.
Wonderful to hear that you bagged it in that low a power in the 10"- 85x wow; there's hope for all out there after all. Aperture obviously helps, but the seeing you had at 3am is quite often a lot better than most will stay up till.
That being said that's quite an achievement most will never realize in this hobby, so well done!
Its actually not that difficult a split I think. Aperture really helps here to pull in the light of such a dim small object. Seeing is important, but I've never had much of a problem. Can't do it in my Achro but its no problem at all in the 12". Even on nights of average seeing I've seen it because - aperture. The best challenge is when that little white dot is hiding in a diffraction spike. That's turning the difficulty up to 11.
Lovely report here, Joe and all the comments from the 'Sirius B Team.' Congrats on a great achievement indeed. I'm afraid I have over the years only conquered the Antares' B Green Gem Challenge and finally spotted Rigel's feeble mate in the last 12 months and have tried - but obviously not enough - to separate the Pup but no success.
Here is a question from someone new to this brand of sky game: Do I need Joe's X560 (even my long abandoned feeble light gatherers with telrad support wont take me past about X300) or can I make it if John B can reach it with X292, skysurfer with X128 and Matt, who must have eyes like Stephen James O'Meara, with a staggering X65!? I have tried a home made bar on a 9mm with Barlow taking me to X300. I have even run every filter I can find past this great star, but nothing so far. BTW my best success with Antares B was in evening twilight and in steady Autumn air with my home figured 16"(and which truthfully was not a great glass). You have inspired me to wait for these magic moments and to keep trying. Nice pic of the shy critter, Marc. Long live the star splitters!
Its actually not that difficult a split I think. Aperture really helps here to pull in the light of such a dim small object. Seeing is important, but I've never had much of a problem. Can't do it in my Achro but its no problem at all in the 12". Even on nights of average seeing I've seen it because - aperture. The best challenge is when that little white dot is hiding in a diffraction spike. That's turning the difficulty up to 11.
Great to hear this , as Iv'e never looked at Sirius in above 7" , though next time I will try in my 10 sct, as I thought the central obstruction might hamper my attempts.
So it seems aperture and seeing might be the keys here ? and not to worry too much about getting over 200x , unless using small apertures.
PS: I've heard of people rotating there tubes now and then because of the spikes, not so easy in the flex tube though, to see if the PUP is being masked, and maybe this is what happens to some observers!
Supposedly it's possible to see it in an 80mm scope just now because the separation is quite large. I've tried a few times with the Tak over the last few weeks but no luck yet.
Lovely report here, Joe and all the comments from the 'Sirius B Team.' Congrats on a great achievement indeed. I'm afraid I have over the years only conquered the Antares' B Green Gem Challenge and finally spotted Rigel's feeble mate in the last 12 months and have tried - but obviously not enough - to separate the Pup but no success.
Here is a question from someone new to this brand of sky game: Do I need Joe's X560 (even my long abandoned feeble light gatherers with telrad support wont take me past about X300) or can I make it if John B can reach it with X292, skysurfer with X128 and Matt, who must have eyes like Stephen James O'Meara, with a staggering X65!? I have tried a home made bar on a 9mm with Barlow taking me to X300. I have even run every filter I can find past this great star, but nothing so far. BTW my best success with Antares B was in evening twilight and in steady Autumn air with my home figured 16"(and which truthfully was not a great glass). You have inspired me to wait for these magic moments and to keep trying. Nice pic of the shy critter, Marc. Long live the star splitters!
Great to hear from you Eugene-and yes I think Matt's eyes are like O'meara's -WOW!
Still I wouldn't bother with filters any more I think, as it's so faint.
Instead wait for those moments of great seeing after midnight if need be.
PS: I too will be going after Antares next- I've done it once some years back, and now will try again soon enough; it's a glorius double.
Supposedly it's possible to see it in an 80mm scope just now because the separation is quite large. I've tried a few times with the Tak over the last few weeks but no luck yet.
Morton Hi
That Tak of your's is just made for this, so I would say it's just a question of seeing, altitude, and some mag here and nothing more.
I doubt I have that good eyesight....Rigel is an easy split. They say it's the same distance as the pup is....doesn't seem like it. The pup is green and Antares companion is blue for me. Never seen colour in any nebula ever with my scopes though, only stars.
If I'm lucky I'll get the 10" out tonight and give it another shot.
I doubt I have that good eyesight....Rigel is an easy split. They say it's the same distance as the pup is....doesn't seem like it. The pup is green and Antares companion is blue for me. Never seen colour in any nebula ever with my scopes though, only stars.
If I'm lucky I'll get the 10" out tonight and give it another shot.
Do so Matt, but I think your being modest and you do have a fantasic arsenal of equipment at your disposal.
Yes; to me the Pup is greenish and Antares has a greenish/blue companion to my eyes , and Rigel is an easy enough split.
PS: We need more of these types of discussions if, for nothing else, so as to expect what one will see, in what aperture etc.
Hi Joe,
Wish granted...thus far. Taken a few minutes ago the 10" Orion Optics UK Newt with ES HR coma corrector and my all time favourite finder scope a Sharpstar 60mm ED f5.5 with a Pan 27 in the focuser....the weather forecast says cloud from 9pm til 1am...will hope its wrong.
Have mozzie coils waiting hate Summer observing due to mozzies...anyway will find out soon enough
Now I don't know if my spider has anything to do with it but I prefer the OOUK curved spider more than the 4 vane thing.
Hi Joe,
Wish granted...thus far. Taken a few minutes ago the 10" Orion Optics UK Newt with ES HR coma corrector and my all time favourite finder scope a Sharpstar 60mm ED f5.5 with a Pan 27 in the focuser....the weather forecast says cloud from 9pm til 1am...will hope its wrong.
Have mozzie coils waiting hate Summer observing due to mozzies...anyway will find out soon enough
Now I don't know if my spider has anything to do with it but I prefer the OOUK curved spider more than the 4 vane thing.
Know how it is Matt, got eaten alive by the mozzies last night after forgetting the Aerogard in my haste to set up for Sirius B. Oh well it was worth it in the end. Good luck with this- love the spider, ocular and all the sharpstars sound fantastic BTW.
PS: We need more of these types of discussions if, for nothing else, so as to expect what one will see, in what aperture etc.
Cheers bigjoe.
I agree and am enjoying the conversation.
Using my Vixen ED103S, I find Rigel a straight forward split in most seeing conditions at 60-100X. Antares, is much more difficult and very dependent on good to excellent seeing conditions. I have had a number of clear splits using the Vixen at 150X. My best views of the double have been through my NA140SS at 320X in absolutely outstanding seeing conditions with a full moon only 20 deg away.
hate Summer observing due to mozzies...anyway will find out soon enough 
