Smarter first purchase

Macka (Grant) · #1 02-08-2015, 11:44 PM

Hi all, I need sound advice. I am wanting to get into astronomy and hoping to spark an interest in a couple of my children at the same time. I am trying to get equipped before our annual beach holiday and plan to spend some time learning the basics and getting the family excited about it.
What I had in mind is a scope useful for both terrestrial and astronomical viewing so we can use it both for viewing the many ships passing close by our position and sky in the evenings.
I am hoping however to bypass altogether the often dissatisfying first couple of purchases or even parts of a purchase where you end up needing to upgrade the areas where the makers have dudded the newcomer. I am an experienced hobbyist and tinkerer and know how this works but just don't have experience in this field yet. I would like the first scope to be one that I will still have in 20 years and love using for its intended purpose.
What I am thinking of atm is a really good 90-100mm mak cassagrain on a decent quality AZ mount but for as reasonable cost as possible. I think I would like to rule out any computerised models to be forced to learn manually and still haven't ruled out an EQ mount either. A question I have is can EQ mounts be easily adapted for terrestrial use. Also, I understand that balance, overhead use and eyepiece angle can be gotchas as well, but don't know when or how with what gear. I really don't want to make any intermediate purchases so if a certain component like the mount only starts to be considered worthwhile by experienced astronomers at a certain price point then that's where I'll be. Same with eyepieces I want to just go buy eyepieces that will never become my least favourite.
Am open and very grateful in advance for any assistance or advice.

Macka (Grant) · #2 03-08-2015, 12:02 AM

...oh also need advice on book/books or software etc. to introduce the science and southern hemisphere sky to us as well.

jenchris (Jennifer) · #3 03-08-2015, 12:25 AM

As far as first scopes go, there's only one way(IMHO) if you want a terrestrial that will work as an astro and that is something like a sw102ed on a manual tripod.
this can then be put on a decent eq mount like an eq5 pro for good widefield star gazing.
The scope can then be used as a widefield ap scope or a guide scope for a larger rig.
I would never get rid of a scope like that.

MattT · #4 03-08-2015, 09:43 AM

Hi Grant,

What's your budget? Sounds healthy... you could go for the Sky Watcher AZEQ5 at $2K from Bintel and a Sky Watcher 120mm ED refractor.

A bit costly. The Refractor will give wider views than the Mak.

Sky Safari pro version 4 is what I have on my ipad. A very poweful app that does a number of useful things when hooked up to the mount...so much more than a sky map.

Matt

dannat (Daniel) · #5 03-08-2015, 11:02 AM

you are right about EQ mounts being not well suited to terrestrial viewing

if you purchase a refractor you will need an erecting prism diagonal for terrestrial as it orients the image the same way up as our eyes view it

do you have an opinion as to the split % viewing between terrestrial/stars -its hard to get an instrument which does well on both

vlazg (George) · #6 03-08-2015, 04:33 PM

Depending on your budget a Skywatcher AZEQ6 can be used both equatorially and in alt-az.
A good mount that will serve your purposes for years.

The Mekon (John Briggs) · #7 03-08-2015, 08:40 PM

Well Grant, you are asking for a lot, but since you are insisting on something that you will not need to replace, then be prepared to spend up big.

As Vlazg has said an AzEQ6 is the mount if you want the best of both worlds, terrestrial and astronomical. Around $2500 at present I think.
Then for eyepieces I would go for Televue, probably the Delos line, a couple of these will be not far short of $1K
Then for the scope I would choose an APO refractor rather than a small Mak, Much better for terrestrial work and able to do wide field as well as high magnification. One in the 100 - 120mm range would be ideal, a number of makers come to mind, William Optics, Astro-tech, StellarVue. Be prepared to spend $2-$3K on the scope.

I view of the above, don't you think you may be better off with a smaller outlay? An ED80 on the Az mount will show you more than you can imagine and will be a great daytime scope. A couple of reasonably priced plossls ($50 each) and you will be set. All up cost maybe $1K.

best of luck working it out, choosing from so much great equipment that is available these days can be fun!

John

Somnium (Aidan) · #8 04-08-2015, 11:04 AM

it has all been said on this thread already but i will add my 2 cents worth. if you want something that is good for both astronomical observing and terrestrial observing, you cant go wrong with a refractor. the problem with refractors is that you really get what you pay for. a cheap one will produce large amounts of chromatic aberration on bright objects. spend a bit more and you get an Achromatic (2 lenses) which will help but to get really good views you need a Triplet APO lens. That is when the $ start to get really high. the other limitation with refractors are the aperture, generally you are not going to get a huge aperture with glass as the cost becomes prohibitive (the Sydney observatory glass lens is only roughly 10" if i remember correctly). this means that you will get great views of the planets, moon, sun (with a solar filter), double stars, open clusters and you can pick up some of the brighter DSO's but don't expect to clearly see galaxies and fainter DSOs.
+ 1 to the AZEQ6 mount, that will give you the options you are looking for, but, it will be quite heavy. although you can set this up each night, the more difficult it is the less likely you are going to be to do it. and the best telescope set up is one that gets used regularly. if you are looking to have something that is very portable and quick to up for a night of observing you might want to consider something else.
if you do decide to get a APO with the AZEQ6 mount, then you are also only a T-ring and a DSLR away from taking some amazing images of nebulae and larger DSO's.

Strawb (Dave) · #9 04-08-2015, 01:48 PM

For a great starter book I reckon you cant go past Steve Massey/Steve Quirk's Atlas of the Southern Night Sky. Clear pics and good charts

The Mekon (John Briggs) · #10 09-08-2015, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macka

Am open and very grateful in advance for any assistance or advice.

Any thoughts on the post replies Grant? Have you decided what sort of rig you would like?

Macka (Grant) · #11 03-10-2015, 05:23 PM

Hi again, thanks for the replies and advice. I don't have the funds to purchase anything as high end as some being mentioned but can scrape moderate sums together if we don't eat or pay rent for a month or two! I imagine this to be the norm in many cases. My only way into this is careful choices and slowly put something together by spreading the expense out.

So I got keen to start. I hid all my bills under some other mail, started a six week diet and pulled the trigger one afternoon when I wasn't thinking too responsibly. A nice truckie soon after dropped a Skywatcher 100ED at my house. Thanks for the advice to go refractor, I think that'll prove to be all good.

So now I am researching mounts. I am pretty much set on an alt/az mount but am reading that the budget mounts like Porta II and Twilight I I was looking at will not quite do the job. The other I am unsure of is AT voyager I think its called. So now I am trying to work out how to afford one of the better mounts like a Desert sky dvs-3 or DM6 or even a t-rex. I wonder how hard these may be to pick up used.

Also I am looking hard at Baader Hyperion eyepieces and wondering from their range what might be the first couple to try and get.

raymo · #12 03-10-2015, 05:43 PM

The AZEQ5 is more than adequate for your ED100; and is lighter to carry about than the 6, and the 5 would take an ED120 if you decided to step up a size further down the track.
raymo

Macka (Grant) · #13 03-10-2015, 07:10 PM

I haven't looked all that closely at that mount yet. I was pretty sold on the argument that ease of transport and setup of a straight alt/az mount can encourage more frequent use.

Macka (Grant) · #14 03-10-2015, 07:16 PM

...also many of the az mounts I mentioned allow for upgrades at a later date, spreading that cost out again.

The Mekon (John Briggs) · #15 04-10-2015, 01:45 PM

Good choice with the ED100 Grant.
As for mounts - used T-Rex are very rare. I reckon there are only a handful of these mounts in the country, and if one comes up for sale you will have to beat me and many others to get it!
The ED100 should be quite comfortable on many of the smaller and cheaper Alt/Az mounts.

Macka (Grant) · #16 10-10-2015, 07:07 PM

The mount bit is tricky! Now I am very interested in AZEQ5 and losmandy az8 as well as others mentioned previously. I decided to purchase a skyview alt/az to get viewing whilst considering dearer mount options for a time. I am a bit of a mad tinkerer so may end up happy with this mount if it modifies into an acceptable mount.
Looking through the train of componants at the viewing end, I think the sw crayford focuser is going to stay, have pulled it apart and trued up the bearing tracks and main spindle track. After retightening is smooth and stable. May add better clamp to the end of the drawtube. The sw dielectric diagonal claims to be good and has clamp ring so it too can stay for now.
I now need a 45 degree diagonal for terrestrial viewing and some eyepieces and filters. Also after some advice on finder upgrades.

MattT · #17 10-10-2015, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macka

Also I am looking hard at Baader Hyperion eyepieces and wondering from their range what might be the first couple to try and get.

There are many better eyepieces than the Hyperions. My favourites are these

http://agenaastro.com/eyepieces.html...nufacturer=319

Meade HD 5000 are good too.

Matt

Macka (Grant) · #18 22-10-2015, 12:01 AM

So I just received a Leica zoom in the mail and although I don't have an adapter yet was able to hold it flush on the diagonal and check it out. Much nicer than the sw eyepiece that came with the scope.

One thing though, I had read of a weakness in the twist up eyecup on these eyepieces. The three little retaining and locating tabs are reported to break in quite short time. So after opening the new eyepiece today I checked this out. Sure enough the twist up cup was very loose. After removing it from the eyepiece I could see the three tabs had lost any flexibilty they may have once had and were bent outwards and so were not locating the cup firmly as they should and only flex outwards to their current position when moved between clicklock positions. After giving one the slightest nudge back to its intended position about .75mm inwards it fell straight off.
What a piece of $h1...so was forced to repair and strengthen the whole assemble 10mins after opening it. That is pretty annoying on a thousand dollar eyepiece.

Macka (Grant) · #19 23-10-2015, 08:13 PM

Thanks to dannat, I now have the needed adapter for the Leica asph zoom I purchased. So I am sort of good to go at this point. Looking further forward I am now thinking of a 2" barlow option and one or maybe two quality widefield low mag eyepieces. Also the finder may get looked at. The straight through one supplied is not much fun being inside out and back to front. Not to mention hard to get to when looking straight up! I like the idea of having a pair of options. Any suggestions welcome once again.