How to start up an astronomy group ?

[Jen]

G'day everyone I was wondering if someone can lead me into the right direction on how do i start up an astronomy club in my town.
I have amazing skies here and the weather is usually very kind to me except the last month grrrrrr anyway I think it's time I bite the bullet and go for it I want a club here so bad I think it's time to get the ball rolling
Woohoooo but...... I have no idea where to start or what do I do
Do I need to approach the council first or do I have to get like an ABN number
Do I charge these members to be part of the group, insurance etc etc....
I do not want to make it a profit organisation, I just want to get together with some other like-minded people like myself to get out there under some dark skies and enjoy what the universe has to offer
I have so many things I still want to learn but all my Astro buddies live so far away from me
I have prompted the swan hill pony club if they were interested in sharing their facilities as they are just on the edge of town so that will be cool if that works out fingers crossed
Let's get Swan Hill on the map
Any advice would be muchly appreciated thanks

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

The first thing would be to canvas the locals to determine the interest in such a club. How big do you expect the club to be, few like minded people who gather once a month or something more structured (e.g. President, Vice President, Treasurer etc). Do you expect members to pay a joining/membership fee? You may have o think of setting up a constitution. How does the local Pony Club structure their organisation? Sharing facilities...how would the insurance work with this?

[rally]

Jen,

What you are wanting to do is to start an association which is usually done as an incorporated body.
This protects the individuals within that association from liability
You'll need at least 5 members
Here is a primer - lots of info on that site regarding the requirements
http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/clubs...ub-incorporate

It would be good if another astronomy association could do you the favour of sharing their documentation, it might also be useful if you became a satellite of a major association - independent or not _ I am not sure, you would need to speak with them.
But it may bring significant benefits that you guys on your own could not - on the other hand it may limit your independence if you want to do your own thing that is outside the norm.

Genrally you want a public liabilty insurance policy to cover your activites - so that when someone gets crushed by a 20" telescope falling on them - they are covered - its usually a requirement of most council land use.

This association process is probably no different to the Pony Club or most other associations in the area.
If you dont incorporate you or another member could become personally liable, plus having a group of people who legally need to constitute a committee means that eventually others will share the load and hopefully it will grow a life of its own, that is more divers and better than any one person could achieve.

Good luck with it and hopefully someone from another association will share their paperwork with you, which you can amend and adapt for your needs without having to reinvent the wheel.

Rally

[raymo]

Put an ad in the local papers to see if there are a few interested locals,
[ with or without their own equipment]. Alternatively, go to your local
paper and see if they will do a piece on you, and include a pic of you and your scope. [ my local paper did this for me, got twelve replies ].
What happens then depends on how formal you want the group to be.
If it remains just a group of like minded people enjoying their hobby,
then joining fees and insurance etc are unnecessary.
If you want to set up a proper club, with fees etc, you have to open a bank a/c in the name of the club, elect Pres, Treasurer, etc as mentioned
by Hans. You will have to write up a constitution [ also mentioned],
and get public liability insurance for when doing any viewing for non
members. Find meetings venue if necessary.
Before going down the latter route, it's a good idea to let the group
do it's thing for a while to ensure that most of the members are committed enough to warrant the work involved in setting up a
bona fide club. Hope this helped. Good luck.
raymo

[OzEclipse (Joe Cali)]

Hi Jen,
A club doesn't need any formal structure to operate. It can just be just like an informal group of friends and meet at your place.

It's probably better to run this way to start and see what the interest is and if it will fly.

However, you can't set up a bank account in the clubs name unless individual members put their own name and TFN's and provide 100 points of ID on the club bank accounts without an ABN.

When it grows too big, you can start hiring venues for meetings. At that stage, you can just set up a second bank account in your own name or some one else's name to collect subs and pay bills like room rent.

Later, you can consider incorporation.

There are advantages to incorporation. By incorporating, the club becomes a legal entity. I'm not sure how Victorian law works but here in the ACT it gives members legal separation & protection from the club in the event of a law suit.

At some point, you need to step back and let others run it. A club isn't a club unless everyone is contributing energy and enthusiasm.

My suggestion for the club name : Southern World at Night Astronomers. Acronym : SWAN Astronomers

Good luck

Joe

[doppler (Rick)]

Hi Jen, starting an offical club can be a lot of work and includes a lot of paper work, rules, regulations, insurance and needs some dedicated members to keep it all running.

Best to start a group with a free google or yahoo web site and a facebook group page, then if you can find enough commited people you might be able to form a registered club.

Here's a link to our Mackay groups web page, its a pretty casual group but is a great contact place for our local astro enthusiasts (we managed to get around 20 people and 7 scopes to meet out of town last sat night)

http://tropicalstargazers.webs.com/

Rick

[acropolite (Phil)]

What Rick said....., the complications and legalities of setting up a club are a nightmare.

[RAJAH235]

re; Public Liability Insurance....
Give "Webster, Hyde & Heath" Insurance brokers a call.
They're in South Aust.
> http://www.whhib.com.au
email > info@whhib.com.au

We got ours through them, many years ago.

Plus, it covers member to member as well as any invited guests or visitors.

[Jen]

Thanks guys for the info I have so much to think about now yayyyyy lol
To share another clubs facilities I guess I should have something on paper

[rally]

Originally Posted by acropolite

What Rick said....., the complications and legalities of setting up a club are a nightmare.

Its just a process, its not that hard and if someone else gives you their template its so much easier.
Been involved in the process a couple of times in the past, back in the typing days of article of association and memorandum !

Doing it from scratch is difficult if you dont know what you are doing (and you dont want a lawyer to charge you a fee)
I am sure there is an astro club secretary somewhere on here that can help Jen.

If you set up an association you are creating something tangible and with a committe required to start it off - you are already getting the committment of a number of people to help the cause. They have a vested interest from the outset.
If you start your own facebook page or loose group of friends - it will probably always be you and maybe one other doing it all.
There is not the same sense of ownership and contribution to "our club"
Which may or may not be good thing or a bad thing !
Plus if it takes off in any way there can be lot to do - there's too much for just one person to do it ll and the creative input from others is worthwhile

Founding members of clubs and associations can sometimes become right PITAs because they started the club and as the original custodians and "parents" have very rigid ideas on what they want to see happen - this often ends up in tears for some (either them or others around them) - Just like kids you have to let go of your babies at some point ! - clubs evolve with their own personalities, they have teething problems, personality disorders and disputes and they evolve !

I just searched for "Articles of Association incorported club" and found a number of examples that with some limited modification could probbaly be used.

Get it started and see where it goes.

Good luck Jen and dont be put off.

[GrampianStars (Rob)]

Originally Posted by Jen

G'day everyone I was wondering if someone can lead me into the right direction on how do i start up an astronomy club in my town.
I have amazing skies here and the weather is usually very kind to me except the last month grrrrrr anyway I think it's time I bite the bullet and go for it I want a club here so bad I think it's time to get the ball rolling
......
Any advice would be muchly appreciated thanks

Get on the local radio at least weekly with a 20 minute "Sky Tonight" segment and promote a monthly "Star Gazing" gathering reminding people to bring a telescope or binoculars red torches at i.e. "The Pony Club" & see how that goes first.

Have yourself or someone else do a 30 minute guided "Sky" tour and viewing through your telescope with at least 10 objects printed out on a "guided tour"
i.e. Messier, planets, constellations easy stuff that newbies can see with binoculars......
Have red cellophane available to cover white torches.

I'll even come up north and help one month ( I need to bag some northern messiers )
Here's hoping others on here can help out to get your "Star Party/Club" going as well.

Here's how it's done
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-2...nberra/6713230

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Hi Jen,
When I first joined IceInSpace, I asked the Iceman (who lives locally) about an Astronomy Club in the area.
He said he had thought about it, but decided against it because of all the politics etc. involved.
Instead, like minded people in the area just meet for informal viewing sessions on an agreed semi regular basis.
It works for us. And it is free. And no paperwork or bureaucracy.
We have had over 20 scopes regularly, sometimes a lot fewer, at our Pony Club sessions.

And as you know, the lack of a "Club" has not stopped Iceman from organising one of the biggest Southern Hemispher Astro-Camps each year (IISAC). [Although obviously a heck of a lot of work for Mike and friends - Thanks Mike]

Just something to think about. (ask him)

[Jen]

Thanks for the info guys
Rob I might take you up on that it would be great to get you up here
I had a chat to the gentleman that owns the Lake Boga Observatory just 15 minute drive from swan hill (it is currently up for sale) he said that I am more than welcome to take my Astro buddies there and use his facilities etc etc any time I like woohoo how cool is that

I have a handful of interested Astro buddies now, I havnt advertised in the paper or radio yet but I'm getting there I think, just by word of mouth at this stage yayyyy

Ok so how does Swan Hill Astronomy Inc sound for the clubs name

[Nico13 (Ken)]

Sounds great Jen,
Not long till camp down here and you can talk to Malcolm about our Snake Valley setup as he's just gone through it all recently and will be full bottle on the ins and outs.

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Originally Posted by Jen

Thanks for the info guys
Rob I might take you up on that it would be great to get you up here
I had a chat to the gentleman that owns the Lake Boga Observatory just 15 minute drive from swan hill (it is currently up for sale) he said that I am more than welcome to take my Astro buddies there and use his facilities etc etc any time I like woohoo how cool is that

I have a handful of interested Astro buddies now, I havnt advertised in the paper or radio yet but I'm getting there I think, just by word of mouth at this stage yayyyy

Ok so how does Swan Hill Astronomy Inc sound for the clubs name

Good luck with it Jen, that is truly exciting

I think 'Inc' as in incorporated is for American companies the aussie version is pty ltd the astro club is more of an association or society I would guess

here are a few name options

SHAG
Swan Hill Astronomy Group

ASH
Astronomers of Swan Hill

SHAS
Swan Hill Astronomical Society

ASSH
Astronomical Society of Swan Hill

SHA
Swan Hill Astronomy

cheers

[rally]

Russell and Jen,

"Inc" is for incorporated body and is the correct term for an incorporated club or association - this is the usual method for clubs (its done at a State level)
Here is a Vic association Rules template
http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/clubs...es#model-rules

Pty Ltd is for a private trading company which has directors and shareholders - this is Federal and done through ASIC

I believe that a Society can be slightly different to an incorporated asscociation or it can be the same - but I dont have any detail

You can remain unincorporated as just a general group of friends but its worth understanding the problems, limitations on owning assets and the personal risks
http://www.lawhandbook.sa.gov.au/ch08s02.php

Good luck Jen - sounds like its all coming together.

[Jen]

I was under the impression that if you are a non-profit club or organisation that you have to have Incorporated or Inc. at the end of your clubs name or am I mistaken

[Jen]

Originally Posted by Nico13

Sounds great Jen,
Not long till camp down here and you can talk to Malcolm about our Snake Valley setup as he's just gone through it all recently and will be full bottle on the ins and outs.

Hehe I now have Malcolm's number on speed dial hehe

[Jen]

Originally Posted by rally

Russell and Jen,

"Inc" is for incorporated body and is the correct term for an incorporated club or association - this is the usual method for clubs (its done at a State level)
Here is a Vic association Rules template
http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/clubs...es#model-rules

Pty Ltd is for a private trading company which has directors and shareholders - this is Federal and done through ASIC

I believe that a Society can be slightly different to an incorporated asscociation or it can be the same - but I dont have any detail

You can remain unincorporated as just a general group of friends but its worth understanding the problems, limitations on owning assets and the personal risks
http://www.lawhandbook.sa.gov.au/ch08s02.php

Good luck Jen - sounds like its all coming together.

Thanks Rally I'm getting just a little excited at the moment woohoo now the Pony Club has taken my requests on board and are having a meeting on Monday yayyyyy I'm getting offers all over the place now woohoo
I'm not rushing into anything just yet though I'm doing lots and lots of homework first thanks to you guys for all the tricks in the trade

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Jen
You can only use Inc. at the end of the groups name if you are a registered incorporated association. If you do not decide to incorporate, then you are not allowed to use Inc.
Incorporation for associations is often misunderstood. Wjat it does is create a new legal entity, similar to a company, that can enter into contracts, be sued, take out insurance, have a bank account, basically do many of the things a "real"person can do. The main advantage is that if something goes wrong, the association is liable (in many cases). If an accident happens at an observing night, and the injured party attempts to sue, they can only sue the association, not the office holders, unless they can show that an office holder was personally negligent. So it offers a degree of protection to you.
It also makes having a bank account much easier.
Of course it does impose obligations. A requirement to have a committee, a constitution, to hold annual general meeting and send in an annual return.

Malcolm