ACP, CCD Commander, SGP, CCDAP ect.?

[Atmos (Colin)]

Thought I might open up an open conversation on automated sequencing programs. The best and the worst, pros and cons.

Thought I would start with some prices:
ACP:
- Basic $695
- Personal Expert $1495
CCD Commander: $99
CCD AutoPilot: $95-295
Sequence Generator Pro: $99-157

At first glance there is a HUGE difference between ACP and the other three, is it worth the 6x price hike?

I guess now I should mention what I already have software wise.
MaxIm DL 6
The Sky X, TPoint & Camera Add-on
PinPoint Full
MaxFocus (buying in the coming days)
PHD2

So far, virtually all of my experience has been with using MaxIm DL, manually controlling everything through my LX200 10" with a DSLR. Needless to say, nothing automated! Finally got a new mount some two months ago to which I want to do automated processes in my backyard.

Recently started playing around with MaxIm DL, not sure if it's just me but it seems needlessly complicated to set up imaging sequences so branching out. Haven't even bothered trying to use TSX in the field for this work

From reading numerous threads and reviews all over the inter-webs, ACP although far more expensive sounds like it is the best. Followed by CCD Commander and then I hit a wall between CCDAP and SGP. SGP has done a lot of catching up in the last 18 months, CCDAP sounds like it can be a bit crashy/glitchy at times.

At the moment I am trying to decide between CCD Commander, SGP or if it is that much better, taking the far more expensive plunge into ACP. Taking the plunge into the black pit that is astrophotography

Cheers all!

[Paul Haese]

I use CCDAP and have done so for two years. It has good backup from John Smith with frequent updates. The guy must spend every minute writing updates. It can be a little glitch pain when you are getting into remote automation but once you get things sorted with your system it works perfectly fine. I have incidentally heard similar things said about CCD Commander too about it being full of glitches but I know of quite a few people using it to success. Martin Pugh uses CCDAP successfully as do I, so there are two of us who have it going well.

Having said all that though, if I was really really serious about data mining I would have ACP. I have several times had my finger on the button to buy the pro version as I don't think the basic version would be worth buying, but each time the cost gets to me and going through the process of learning another system once again.

If I could do it all over again I would go with ACP if I knew what I know now. I never hear of any problems with it at all. It must be very good, so it you can afford to spend the money do so.

[Shiraz (Ray)]

SGP is very reliable and easy to use when you understand it's layout. It is probably best for someone who has a local scope, but wants to be able to leave it imaging for for most of the night without supervision. Cannot see how it could be bettered for sequencing. Fantastic value.

[Slawomir (Suavi)]

+1 for SGP

SGP cannot autoguide though, but it works/communicates flawlessly with PHD2.

[roughy (Mark)]

Also +1 for SGP

[Atmos (Colin)]

SGP is certainly sounding like a good step forward! From my research ACP pretty much falls into the "must have" camp when going remote. Beginning to sound more like a future investment :-)

[rmuhlack (Richard)]

+1 for SGP from me also. As per comments from Shiraz, I use it to automate a local scope in the home OBS so that it can be left to run unattended.

[Octane (Humayun)]

I've been using CCDCommander for over a year now. I program several night's worth of capture well ahead of time, then, just load up a particular night's program, and, away she goes. My first task is to start the CCD cooling down (gradually) once the Sun is 6 degrees above the horizon. Then, by the time astronomical twilight is complete, my temperature is down to -25 degrees and slewing to my target, ready to find a focus star. If I'm not imaging through the night, then, I set my camera's temperature to 0, and wait for astronomical twilight and ramp the temperature back down to -25 degrees again, ready for moving to Achernar, finding a focus star, and then taking the appropriate filter's flats for that night when the time is right (all taken care of by CCDCommander).

I haven't had any problems with it whatsoever.

H

[DavidTrap (David)]

My experiences are very similar to H with CCD commander.

My advice would be to make sure you have everything sorted manually before trying to use a sequencer. The usual sequence is,

Slew to focus star
Focus
Slew to target
Plate solve and correct slew to target
Turn on autoguiding
Take series of images
Repeat

If you can't do the above sequence repeatedly, without fail, then sequencing is going to cause you angst... You also need to be able to cope with plate solving and reacquiring a target after meridian flips (unnecessary with your LX-200).

You've got more software than you need. You also don't need to buy FocusMax 4 - version 3 is adequate (unless you feel strongly about supporting the author)

DT

[Atmos (Colin)]

I was considering doing some grave digging on your thread from this time last year H, ask how things are going.
At this stage I've probably taken my EQ6 outside 4 times since I bought it two months ago, not a lot of a chance to actually do some testing and what not.

The main reason I've never done anything in the past is that I have NEVER been able to get my 10" LX200 to communicate with any of 3 computers running everything from XP to Windows 8.1.

I haven't actually had to deal with a meridian flip yet, other than that I have done the other things very briefly but what I need is some clear nights and Melbourne just hadn't given anything in the past three months Hopefully we'll be getting a good Spring!

Good point about V3, didn't even occur to me to track down the Freeware version!

[Slawomir (Suavi)]

I thought I will share my routine with SGP (assuming the mount has been properly polar aligned), maybe someone will find it useful...

If starting imaging a new target:

1. Slew to the target.
2. Rotate the camera if needed and frame the target as needed.
3. Plate solve and save details for a new sequence (filters, subs etc - this info will be used over several nights until imaging has been completed).
4. Start auto-guiding with PHD2.
4. Start the sequence. Focus will be automatically adjusted while on the target, I set it to readjust after each 1 degree change in temperature.
5. If everything has been set up well, meridian flip will be preformed automatically without user's intervention, telescope centered on the target (auto plate solving) and autoguiding will be synchronised with PHD2. The sequence will conclude at the pre-set time, including warming up of the camera, parking the scope etc.

When continuing with the sequence on another night (mount has been aligned):
1. Load the sequence and make SGP to slew to the target and to return to previous location (it will automatically re-centre the object to within a user set margin (can be a few pixels)).
2. Run PHD2.
3. Start the sequence again and let SGP take care of focus and the rest.

I must admit I really like how SGP automates imaging, especially when combined with motorised focuser and rotator. If I only did not have to move the gear in and out of the house every time...

[Octane (Humayun)]

I was using the trial of CCDCommander for a while, on a number of spare astro netbooks and laptops until I finally forked out the money for it. In the meantime, I had considered buying ACP (I already own PinPoint).

But, since moving back from Queensland and no longer having an observatory, coupled with the fact that anything north of the celestial equator is hidden by our house meant I'd save myself some serious dollars.

So, for now, CCDCommander fits the bill.

I think the only thing that I really needed to use my brain for was to set the east and west mount limits (in minutes). But, after I found an explanatory post on the CCDCommander Yahoo! Groups group, it clarified it for me.

My eastern limit on the Gemini is 105 while my western limit is 100.

105-90=15 degrees. 15/15 (degrees per hour) = 1 hour = 60 minutes
100-90=10 degrees. 10/15 (degrees per hour) = 0.67 hours = 40 minutes.

Once those values are input, CCDCommander takes care of any meridian flips required.

It truly is a joy to watch it do its thing. My next purchase, after a Paramount is going to be the AAG Cloud Watcher system, to automate weather-related events (AAG, amongst others, interface with CCDCommander).

H

[jase (Jason)]

I've used ACP since 2007 and ACP Scheduler since 2009 for remote operations and its been worth every penny. ACP and Scheduler are now combined as one offering labelled ACP Expert which make the solution even more powerful.

At present I've got 190 plans queued in Scheduler. LRGB have been given a priority of 20 and can only be shot when the moon is down. Narrowband has been given a priority of 0 and can be shot with the moon is up but under a constraint that the target must be shot 90 degrees away when the moon is full. As the moon wanes, the distance between the moon and target is automatically reduced. This way LRGB get priority over narrowband. Once the moon is up, the system will switch to narrowband imaging automatically. Once the moon sets, it will start collecting LRGB data. It really is set and forget. I've already got summer targets loaded into the database which Scheduler will dispatch to ACP when constraints are met. Some have already started running at 4am in the morning. Need to keep the instrument busy. Got MaximDL 6 multi-guide star working with ACP a couple of weeks ago. Impressive.

The software will work out of the box without needing customisation. However if you aren't happy with the way a certain function is working, you can tweak it. The ability to look under the bonnet and see what the software is doing is a major benefit. You don't need to be a hardcore coder to understand the logic that is applied. Some basic knowledge of javascript/vbs will see you through.

ACP8 now integrates with CCWare's CCDNavigator to allow for even more powerful planning.

The support from the father of ASCOM, Bob Denny is second to none. Extremely knowledgeable. You'll find ACP in use across multiple institutions given its multi user support is ideal for student environments or those running rental telescopes that allow individuals to load plans for submission. Rental telescope environments as some can attest to here are harsh on software and hardware. Demands are significantly higher given the unpredictability on what individuals want to shoot, when, and for how long. Having software that can keep up with the plan dispatching and do so in a reliable manner is paramount. As a single user, astro imager, I can only state that the feature set is incredibly rich which lends itself well to very productive imaging. If you are scientifically inclined and wish to do all night sky searches, look no further than ACP.

I have toyed around with CCDAP a couple of times. Still very powerful and well suited to image sequencing in a controlled manner. i.e. the imager making the decisions. This is ample for most now doubt. Its an automated solution.

If you are looking for an autonomous solution i.e. hands off for observatory startup (script power up, camera cooling, turning scope fans on, open the obs when safe, sky flats, etc), through to shutdown (the reverse of startup) and do everything in between such as plate solving, focusing, shipping data to the cloud, mount tracking at different rates, you name it. ACP is your tool of choice. Of course, you can also run it in an automated state and if desired be more hands on than needed. Personally, I prefer to let the software do the grunt work on what to shoot and when, then collect the data from the data each clear night. Each to their own I guess.