Quick Advice on Digital Camera

issdaol (Phil) · #1 12-07-2015, 09:55 PM

Hi All,

I'm in the market for a new digital camera.

The options have changed considerably over the past few years and I have not been keeping up to date but I am sure some of you Camera/AP enthusiasts are much more up to date than I am.

I plan to use it primarily for point and shoot everyday shots but also want to be able to do the occasional unguided AP shot.

The Main Criteria in terms of must haves:

Highest Quality Full Frame Sensor
High Quality Interchangeable Lens'
Highest Sensitivity for occasional low light AP
Adaptable for use with Tak scopes either prime focus or EP projection

Any pointers/suggestions/comment welcome :-)

Cheers

Octane (Humayun) · #2 12-07-2015, 10:00 PM

Canon 6D.

H

issdaol (Phil) · #3 12-07-2015, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Octane

Canon 6D.

H

Thanks for the suggestion

How does this compare to the 5DIII and the Sony A7 cameras??

silv (Annette) · #4 12-07-2015, 11:16 PM

low light/high ISO/noise is one of the criteria when choosing a cam for AP.

here's a comparison of 5III and sony a7:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/461...non-eos-5d-iii

axle01 (Alan) · #5 13-07-2015, 07:25 AM

I've got a Sony A7s and sent it to America to be modded and it is awesome, although I've only used it twice and still learning AP

Octane (Humayun) · #6 13-07-2015, 11:41 AM

I don't know anything about Sony's, etc., or what kind of software support they have.

I just know that at high ISOs, the 6D is a great performer, and, you can bet that pretty much all software will support it.

It's about 2/3rd-1 stop better than a 5D Mark III at high ISOs. Doesn't sound like much, but, it makes a difference.

H

pluto (Hugh) · #7 13-07-2015, 12:03 PM

I've got a Sony A7s, and I've also used a friends 6D a fair bit. The A7s is definitely better for low light work with higher dynamic range at high ISOs than the 6D. I also think the A7s has better image quality (though I'll admit that even though I've used better glass on the Canon I've never used the same glass on both). However the 6D is higher resolution and the controls/menus on Canon cameras are lightyears ahead of the Sony, though IMO I can live with it because of the performance of the sensor.

Software wise I agree with H that more software will support the 6D for capture but for processing it's going to be about the same I think.

In terms of lenses that's actually something I've been loving with the Sony is that, as it's mirrorless, I can get adapters for basically any lenses. I can use EF, manual FD or manual Nikon lenses with my adapters (though you can get adapters for Nikon AF lenses too), which means it's possible to pick up great old manual lenses for little money these days. I also have a couple of native FE lenses which are great too.

Also I've got a friend who has one and uses all his Leica lenses on his.

Bottom line is they're both great cameras each with pros and cons and the choice of camera for low light is, IMO, between these two.
Personally if I was looking at a Canon I'd be looking at what they're bringing out in the near future as the 6D has been around for ages whereas the Sony is much newer.

If the resolution of the A7s is too low for you then check out the A7r-II, it still has excellent high ISO performance but with a 36mp sensor.

issdaol (Phil) · #8 13-07-2015, 12:48 PM

Thanks for the feedback so far guys :-)

Looks like it is between the 6D and the Sony A7 then.

Which surprises me because I thought that the 5DIII might be in the running but from what each of you are saying the 5DIII might be getting long in the tooth for low light work.

I am not doing any large format printing or enlargements so while having lots of MegaPixels might be really nice I am happy to trade megapixels for a much better sensor with less noise.

Have not heard of the A7r-II before ! is that a second generation version of the A7s ?? or just another in the same family??

LewisM · #9 13-07-2015, 12:57 PM

Says Mr. Phil I am not AP guy... worm rolled over

Yes, 6D should be fine.

issdaol (Phil) · #10 13-07-2015, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LewisM

Says Mr. Phil I am not AP guy... worm rolled over

Yes, 6D should be fine.

If I didn't need a new Camera I would not be going down this path at all.

But seeing I do, I may as well make the best of both worlds and have something that can serve dual purpose.

I used to be all for Canon but the Sony does seem very compelling.

If someone has experience with this new A7RII and how it might compare with the A7S for low light I would love to know :-)

pluto (Hugh) · #11 13-07-2015, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issdaol

Have not heard of the A7r-II before ! is that a second generation version of the A7s ?? or just another in the same family??

The Sony full frame lineup can be a bit confusing but there's basically 3 different sensor options in the same body. I'll list them here:

A7 - 24mp
A7-II - newer 24mp with on sensor stabilisation

A7s - 12mp, big photosites, known for good low light performance and good video performance

A7r - 36mp
A7r-II - announced but released next month. Newer 36mp with on sensor stabilisation

One could assume we'll see an A7s-II maybe early next year but I've heard nothing about it.

5DmkIII is pretty noisy compared to a 6D or A7s (or A7r for that matter). Also when you try and bring up detail in the underexposed areas of a high ISO mkIII image you get that nasty muddy purple thing going on. You don't get that with the 6D or the Sony.

gregbradley · #12 13-07-2015, 01:48 PM

The current king is almost certainly going to be the new Sony A7Rii.
It is backside illuminated 42.4mp full frame. (its a new sensor and not the same as the 36.4mp sensor in the current A7r model). It has 399 on sensor autofocus points, internal saving 4K video. It looks to be a stop better high ISO performance at least over Sony A7r which is similar to 6D and clean at ISO6400 so expect ISO12800 to be the new ISO6400m which a number of cameras have achieved in the last few years. The camera has IBIS which is a 5 axis stabilisation on the sensor itself so even legacy lenses can now have stabilisation for daylight shots.

I don't know but perhaps 4K video could be handy for planetary work.

You can use any lens on it. The other interesting feature is that autofocus on a Canon lens with a Metabones or other adapter is supposed to be almost as fast as on a Canon body. So you have access to all those great Canon L lenses yet the cutting edge sensor of the Sony. You can have your cake and eat it too. Its expensive at $3800 though. Some of the Zeiss FE lenses are way up there in top line quality and at least one is a dud.

Or a Nikon D810a which is the astrophotography version of the D810 much like Canon has done with 60Da. It has some cool features in it and is the Sony 36.4mp sensor (same as A7r) in case you don't like Sony.It has one stop better high ISO performance and 4 or 5X better Ha response than D810 plus it has built in up to 15minute exposure times and better LCD dark scene response for focusing (so does any A7 series with its electronic viewfinder which is much better to use than an LCD live view).

The main advantage of the D810a is its a full frame astro cam rather than the usual APS 20Da or 60Da.

A modded 6Da may be better value and do really well though but perhaps not so good for daylight shots.

Canon still has the most software backup for tethering etc. but I believe you can tether a Sony A7 series cam now with latest software.

Greg.

gregbradley · #13 13-07-2015, 01:52 PM

Sony A7r has great high ISO performance but the noise pattern is a bit wormy compared to a nicer grain pattern with the same sensor in a Nikon D800e.

Sony does a compressed RAW which when in bulb mode has hot pixel suppression which can weaken some faint stars. I have not seen it as an issue and the examples I have seen were all super badly underexposed and you could hardly see the stars anyway. But its worth knowing. If shot not in bulb mode this is not a problem.

A7rii is likely to be the absolute best and unmatchable. Backside illuminated sensors until recently were the realm of $35,000 astro CCD cameras. The on-chip wiring is copper rather than aluminium and has 3.5X faster readout and lower noise.

The camera has a host of other features as well including silent shutter among others. Its the camera to have in 2015.

Greg.

issdaol (Phil) · #14 13-07-2015, 05:49 PM

Thanks Greg,

Certainly seem the Sony A7II might be worth considering.

I just noted that there seems to be another new Sony A7 just released.

The Sony A7M2 which seems to be very similar spec to the A7II but 24mp instead so is this actually the the updated A7s ???

pluto (Hugh) · #15 13-07-2015, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issdaol

I just noted that there seems to be another new Sony A7 just released.

The Sony A7M2 which seems to be very similar spec to the A7II but 24mp instead so is this actually the the updated A7s ???

No the A7 II is the updated A7. They haven't announced an A7s II. The A7r II comes out in a few weeks

axle01 (Alan) · #16 13-07-2015, 07:13 PM

I use my Sony connected to a 14" Mallincam monitor with live view, makes it real easy to focus.

gregbradley · #17 13-07-2015, 10:20 PM

The new model about to ship in a month is the Sony A7Rii.

There is also a Sony A7ii which is your general purpose 24mp camera with built in stabilisation (IBIS).

Then there is the low light 4K video camera the Sony A7S which has crazy good high ISO performance (as far as I know its the best there is for that) and is 12mp. Its about a year old and talk of a newer model A7Sii is speculation only as Sony is quite good at keeping new models secret.

Greg.

issdaol (Phil) · #18 14-07-2015, 11:29 AM

Thanks :-)

Well I am not in too much of a rush so I may wait a couple of months an see if they release the A7SII

pluto (Hugh) · #19 14-07-2015, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregbradley

Then there is the low light 4K video camera the Sony A7S which has crazy good high ISO performance (as far as I know its the best there is for that) and is 12mp.

Not just video, it's still the low light king for stills too. I've hardly ever used the video on mine.
Also the 4k video thing is a bit misleading - it can output 4k video through hdmi to an external recorder but 1080 60p is the max it will write to the SD.

gregbradley · #20 14-07-2015, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pluto

Not just video, it's still the low light king for stills too. I've hardly ever used the video on mine.
Also the 4k video thing is a bit misleading - it can output 4k video through hdmi to an external recorder but 1080 60p is the max it will write to the SD.

Sony seems to have solved that issue now with the A7Rii as it records 4K video to internal SD card.

A7Sii, you would assume they will release one at some point but its a risk they may not at all as A7Rii seems to do everything A7s did except ISO50,000 reasonably cleanly.

Don't forget though these high ISOs are somewhat academic as for astroimaging I doubt there is a gain using such high ISO's. Its always better to use a lower ISO with higher dynamic range and longer exposure than high ISO. The amount of light is the amount of light and whacking up the ISO is the same as whacking up the volume in your stereo. It starts to distort after a while.

Dynamic Range falls as ISO goes up. Highest Dynamic Range is always at the lowest ISO. When you look at most DSLR astro images the first casualty is the colours of the stars. That is a lack of dynamic range.

Greg.