Frequent Flyer and Velocity Points

[Renato1 (Renato)]

I joined the Australian Frequent Flyer site recently, and discovered I've been a bit of a dill. It just hadn't occurred to me that by using the right credit cards (American Express Platinum Edge and Amex David Jones) our average yearly supermarket bills could pay for return flights for two to many places in Australia.

Generally speaking, one gets more bang for the buck saving Virgin Velocity points, as it takes less of their points for a return trip than do the Qantas Frequent Flyer points. Though the Qantas FF points are better if you want to go to places that Virgin don't go to.

I hadn't kept tabs on one thing - both point schemes are now pretty useless for overseas destinations, compared to what they used to be. When I last used points for a trip to Europe back in 2009, taxes fees and charges were around $500. Now, for the same trip they'd be over $1900.

Basically, one Qantas FF point is worth on average around 1.4cents when used for domestic air travel. With a credit card that gets you 3 points per dollar spent at Coles and Woolworths and IGA, that's a bonus of 4.2 cents per dollar (or around 4.5c per dollar with Virgin velocity).

So, I'd suggest giving consideration to not wasting this bonus if the idea of flying around Australia appeals to you.

Cheers,
Renato

[DavidTrap (David)]

Unless things have changed in the last couple of months, Virgin were significantly cheaper on taxes and charges vs Qantas. My wife went to NY earlier this year for $200 on Virgin FF.

DT

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by DavidTrap

Unless things have changed in the last couple of months, Virgin were significantly cheaper on taxes and charges vs Qantas. My wife went to NY earlier this year for $200 on Virgin FF.

DT

Hi David,
I only tried a few examples and didn't notice much difference between the taxes and charges in Qantas vs Virgin. But thank you - you have spurred my interest. My wife wants to go to New York too. Though I'll have to buy more groceries.
Cheers,
Renato

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Many BP stations are participating in Velocity points now too.

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by Camelopardalis

Many BP stations are participating in Velocity points now too.

Yes, if you give them your Velocity card you get a point per dollar. If you then pay with Qantas Cash or a credit card that earns points you'll get half a point a dollar (they have a 2.25% surcharge for using Amex, making the exercise pointless). So spending say $60 on petrol can earn 90 points.
They all add up, but they are small fry compared to the supermarkets.

Last year I decided to earn points and used Qantas Cash, which pays half a point per dollar. And in the last 12 months I earned 19,000 points.

About 15,000 of those points I earned in supermarkets. If I'd had one of the two Amex cards I mentioned earlier, instead of 15,000 points, I'd have had six times that amount - 90,000 points - which is more than enough for a return trip for two to Perth, or two return trips to Brisbane. Which was why I felt like a dill when I looked into it more carefully.

The downside is that the David Jones card cost $99 a year, and the Platinum Edge card costs $195 a year (but you do get one free return trip a year with it if you are on the Virgin scheme).
Cheers,
Renato

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by Renato1

When I last used points for a trip to Europe back in 2009, taxes fees and charges were around $500. Now, for the same trip they'd be over $1900.

On my last trip to Europe, I used QF FF points to pay for the return leg. I used points for the whole thing. Just had a look at the invoice because I did not recall paying anything. Yup, fees & charges were nil.

[DavidTrap (David)]

You can elect to use points to pay for the charges - consumes a lot more points.

DT

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by N1

On my last trip to Europe, I used QF FF points to pay for the return leg. I used points for the whole thing. Just had a look at the invoice because I did not recall paying anything. Yup, fees & charges were nil.

That's strange. I paid the taxes and charges as far back as on my other Frequent Flyer trip to Europe back in 2005.

Anyhow, you can go on to the Qantas website and check how many points one needs for a return trip Melbourne to London for two - it's 256,000 points plus $1887 for Fees, Taxes and Carrier Charges.
Regards,
Renato

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

I don't actually blame QF for all of this, it costs about $300-$1000 pet seat more to land at Heathrow than mainland Europe.

Makes it hard to build a consistent price model.

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

I don't actually blame QF for all of this, it costs about $300-$1000 pet seat more to land at Heathrow than mainland Europe.

Makes it hard to build a consistent price model.

I just compared a return trip to London to return trip to Frankfurt with Qantas on the same days, and it is around $200 dearer each on the London flight.

I'm not blaming Qantas, but it just remains a fact - using FF points on many international flights only pays for 60 to 65% of the trip, whereas the points pay for a lot more of the trip if used domestically.

But flights prices are really confusing nowadays. Two years ago we went to Europe with Emirates - when our dollar was really high. And we're going this year again on the same route with the same airline at the same times - and our dollar having taken a pounding. And I've paid a thousand dollars less for the two of us than last time.
Cheers,
Renato

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by Renato1

That's strange. I paid the taxes and charges as far back as on my other Frequent Flyer trip to Europe back in 2005.

Anyhow, you can go on to the Qantas website and check how many points one needs for a return trip Melbourne to London for two - it's 256,000 points plus $1887 for Fees, Taxes and Carrier Charges.
Regards,
Renato

That fee is excessive. When I made the booking, I think there was a slider or something where you could adjust the points you wanted to spend vs. the balance paid in cash. I just moved it all the way to the points end.

Only reason I could think of is that it's different when you fly ex Australia, although that would be ridiculous...
Unless is really is that much dearer for QF to fly to London as opposed to the Continent.

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by N1

That fee is excessive. When I made the booking, I think there was a slider or something where you could adjust the points you wanted to spend vs. the balance paid in cash. I just moved it all the way to the points end.

Only reason I could think of is that it's different when you fly ex Australia, although that would be ridiculous...
Unless is really is that much dearer for QF to fly to London as opposed to the Continent.

I've just looked where I could go to with my current 100,000 Qantas FF points:-

One way to London 64,000 point +$362.17 taxes and charges
One way to Frankfurt or Paris 64,000 points + $363.87 taxes and charges
Return to Los Angeles or San Fransico 96,000 points + $850.92 taxes and charges.
One way to New York 64,000 points + $470.01 taxes and charges.

The London figure seems to be lower than the $1887 figure I got at another place on the website where I actually punched in departure and arrival dates, for a return trip for two - maybe the charges vary depending on when travelling?

Also, you'd think that if Heathrow was so expensive, that London would be dearer in taxes and charges than Paris and Frankfurt. But the latter are $1.70 dearer instead.

From memory, the taxes and charges on return Award trips for two from Melbourne to Perth were $136, and $134 for return trips from Melbourne to Sydney or Brisbane. But if we travelled in the other direction to New Zealand, they were around $330 (even though it's closer than Perth).
Cheers,
Renato

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Originally Posted by Renato1

Yes, if you give them your Velocity card you get a point per dollar. If you then pay with Qantas Cash or a credit card that earns points you'll get half a point a dollar (they have a 2.25% surcharge for using Amex, making the exercise pointless). So spending say $60 on petrol can earn 90 points.
They all add up, but they are small fry compared to the supermarkets.

My local BP takes Amex with no surcharge

Originally Posted by Renato1

But flights prices are really confusing nowadays. Two years ago we went to Europe with Emirates - when our dollar was really high. And we're going this year again on the same route with the same airline at the same times - and our dollar having taken a pounding. And I've paid a thousand dollars less for the two of us than last time.

Flight prices are subject to supply and demand. There's a lot more choice for flights to Europe these days and London is a major destination. If the Aussie $ is taking a pounding, it definitely makes it less attractive to be travelling to Europe as everything becomes more expensive. Therefore if the airline find themselves with lots of empty seats, they cut their losses and sell 'em cheap.

IMO I can't imagine Heathrow is that much more expensive than other major European airports...in addition to all the long haul flights with large jets there are lots of domestic flights in and out of Heathrow with relatively small jets as it is a (if not the) major hub for the UK and international travel.

One recent change that could affect prices significantly is that the UK government recent adjusted the levels of air passsenger duty (tax!). For the most frequent range of 2000-4000 miles (read: US, Caribbean) they naturally increased the tax but for destinations over 6000 miles it was reduced by a decent amount.

Another tip (maybe) for flying into London is not to exclude London's other airports. Last time I checked, Emirates also fly into Gatwick at reduced price. Gatwick is London's second airport and is a little further out than Heathrow (Heathrow is 15 minutes by train, Gatwick is 30 minutes), but is less congested and IMO a more pleasant experience.

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by Renato1

I've just looked where I could go to with my current 100,000 Qantas FF points:-

One way to London 64,000 point +$362.17 taxes and charges
One way to Frankfurt or Paris 64,000 points + $363.87 taxes and charges
Return to Los Angeles or San Fransico 96,000 points + $850.92 taxes and charges.
One way to New York 64,000 points + $470.01 taxes and charges.

The London figure seems to be lower than the $1887 figure I got at another place on the website where I actually punched in departure and arrival dates, for a return trip for two - maybe the charges vary depending on when travelling?

Also, you'd think that if Heathrow was so expensive, that London would be dearer in taxes and charges than Paris and Frankfurt. But the latter are $1.70 dearer instead.

From memory, the taxes and charges on return Award trips for two from Melbourne to Perth were $136, and $134 for return trips from Melbourne to Sydney or Brisbane. But if we travelled in the other direction to New Zealand, they were around $330 (even though it's closer than Perth).
Cheers,
Renato

It very much depends on the travel dates.
Anyway I had a look at my statement. FRA-SYD in April cost me 129,400 QF points and zero fees. That is a lot more than the numbers above and thus explains why there were no additional fees. But that's fine. Not paying any money when making an award booking, thus getting a flight that is actually free, is the whole point of the exercise IMHO. If I merely want to fly at reduced cost, I don't use Qantas at all.

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by N1

It very much depends on the travel dates.
Anyway I had a look at my statement. FRA-SYD in April cost me 129,400 QF points and zero fees. That is a lot more than the numbers above and thus explains why there were no additional fees. But that's fine. Not paying any money when making an award booking, thus getting a flight that is actually free, is the whole point of the exercise IMHO. If I merely want to fly at reduced cost, I don't use Qantas at all.

Maybe they have two systems going on-line - one which gives me astounding fees, and one where you get astoundingly good deals.

If the extra 1,400 points you used (which are worth around $14) paid for all your taxes and fees - well, I wish i could get the same deal. Whatever you are doing - keep doing it.
Cheers,
Renato

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by Camelopardalis

My local BP takes Amex with no surcharge



Flight prices are subject to supply and demand. There's a lot more choice for flights to Europe these days and London is a major destination. If the Aussie $ is taking a pounding, it definitely makes it less attractive to be travelling to Europe as everything becomes more expensive. Therefore if the airline find themselves with lots of empty seats, they cut their losses and sell 'em cheap.

IMO I can't imagine Heathrow is that much more expensive than other major European airports...in addition to all the long haul flights with large jets there are lots of domestic flights in and out of Heathrow with relatively small jets as it is a (if not the) major hub for the UK and international travel.

One recent change that could affect prices significantly is that the UK government recent adjusted the levels of air passsenger duty (tax!). For the most frequent range of 2000-4000 miles (read: US, Caribbean) they naturally increased the tax but for destinations over 6000 miles it was reduced by a decent amount.

Another tip (maybe) for flying into London is not to exclude London's other airports. Last time I checked, Emirates also fly into Gatwick at reduced price. Gatwick is London's second airport and is a little further out than Heathrow (Heathrow is 15 minutes by train, Gatwick is 30 minutes), but is less congested and IMO a more pleasant experience.

Thanks, though we're not going to London this trip - though we do want to go back one day. We became quite fond of Heathrow last time we were there. We`stayed at a 5 star place at Heathrow, which we liked much better than the 4 star place we had stayed in, in London. Yes, catching the bus and train into London every morning was a bit of a nuisance, but it was actually quite relaxing on the way back to the hotel when one's feet were aching.

How come your BP has no surcharge and mine does? That means that for $60 of petrol you get 2 points on my Amex card place a point on the Velocity card. 180 points in all, whereas I can only get 60 points.

Pretty clever the British Government. They'll charge Americans more, but the Americans won't notice it as their dollar has appreciated so greatly.
Cheers,
Renato

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by Renato1

Maybe they have two systems going on-line - one which gives me astounding fees, and one where you get astoundingly good deals.

If the extra 1,400 points you used (which are worth around $14) paid for all your taxes and fees - well, I wish i could get the same deal. Whatever you are doing - keep doing it.
Cheers,
Renato

Renato, please note this was for a one-way ticket! I'm sure you'd get the same deal.