cautious Newbie with questions

[Brycepj (Peter)]

G!day everyone,
I have been read all you post with interest and it has been very educational.
Awhile back I decided to buy a pair of binoculars primarily for star gazing so I waited for a sale and picked up Olympus 10 x 50 which reading forums was an excellent place to start. Really good advice as it's been great. Of course the next step was ok which telescope, after reading and reading and questioning and fortunately been able to look through a 8 inch dod and a 5" televue refractor on an eq mount which had go to capability which actually blew me away seeing saturn 's rings. My thoughts were ok I'll pick up a small refractor with Goto for about $900. Before I pushed the button I thought hang on $900 is a fair bit for first scope as eventually I will want some thing better as eventually astro photography would be great I had a rethink and thought well my 10 x 50 are great how about up the mag. and aperture to say 20x80 that should get me out there and they are still reasonably portable I.ve got a good tripod for my DSLR. Trying to find one has been tough on a budget of say $300. Then I picked up a copy of "Australian Sky & Telescope May/June and there is this guy talking about how good his spotting scope is the things he sees how portable etc.. I can pick up a Celestron Ultimate 80 for $300 maybe that's the way to go. So my question is this what's wrong with spotting scopes for star gazing 20- 60 x80 highly portable, vs 20 x 80 binoculars I have read good and bad about spotters is this reasonable or do I just keep saving for the whiz bang refractor for $2,000? What am I missing.?

[JonR356 (Jon)]

Advice from a fellow beginner:

I'd say you're missing out on buying a decent size dob, without the goto stuff.

Buy a book or a smartphone app and learn your way around the skies. You'll have the best of both worlds with your binoculars and dob - something small and convenient and something to let you see the fainter stuff you'll never see with the binoculars.

Forget photography for the time being, and buy kit for that when you need to. You'll still use what you already have for visual work

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Jon , that is very good advise , mate , well said .
I could not agree more .

Brian.

[raymo]

Jon is right on the money, if you have a real interest in astronomy,
you'll soon want to see more than an 80mm can show you. An 8" dob
is nice and portable, nice and cheap, and you can do photography at an
introductory level further down the track. Best of all, you won't lose
much money when you sell it in order to buy a better scope.
raymo

[astro744]

You looked through a 5" Tele Vue? Wow! That's like $9k worth of view! Wide flat field with pin point stars to the edge and very high contrast. Wish I had one. Dreamin'!

[raymo]

The scope needs to be balanced slightly against the drive direction, to ensure the gears are kept firmly in mesh. If it is perfectly balanced, the scope will flutter back and forth a little due to the play in the gears, and
probably ruin your pics. It depends on how much backlash your gears have. It is obviously less important with belt drive mounts.
raymo

[Brycepj (Peter)]

Thanks guys got the apps and books and happy to let photography slide. An 8" dob sounds cool what are the collapsible like?
Astro Yeah the televue was awesome the guys in Perth near the ocean so little pollution he had a Dob as well which I found hard to see through May be just me.
peter

[raymo]

The Skywatcher Flex Dobs as they are called, are simple to extend and
collapse,[ about 10-15 seconds.] They hold mirror collimation very well.
I had a 10" one for several years, and never had a problem.
raymo

[Marios (Marios)]

Keep in mind the mount is the heart of your setup, you only want a EQ mount to do photography.

If photography is in your mind longer term get a entry level HEQ5 mount, and a scope in your price range. This mount will give you room to grow in the future as your needs change.

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Originally Posted by Brycepj

...he had a Dob as well which I found hard to see through May be just me.

This was probably the eyepiece being used at the time... different eyepieces have different characteristics which can affect eye placement for best viewing which ultimately affects comfort. The Dob and the refractor just put the eyepiece in a different place for viewing due to their design.

[Brycepj (Peter)]

Ok guys here is what I'm close to buying. decided to go a bit further and buy something that will lead to astro photography and also fairly portable.
I'm considering a Skywatcher Ed80 refractor on a EQ3 mount. Down the track I'll add goto capability and the bits for astro photography. Can get one for about $1300 . My question is about celestial polar alignment. As I live in melb. I know the lat. is 37' I also know that The declination angle from mag. north is 11' if I have my compass I can adjust to true North is it sufficient to set a new mount up in this manner. Does it have to be the southern celestial pole, why not North???
I know Marios mentioned a HE 5 but that pushes the budget a bit. Will the EQ3 do the the job?

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by Brycepj

Ok guys here is what I'm close to buying. decided to go a bit further and buy something that will lead to astro photography and also fairly portable.
I'm considering a Skywatcher Ed80 refractor on a EQ3 mount. Down the track I'll add goto capability and the bits for astro photography. Can get one for about $1300 . My question is about celestial polar alignment. As I live in melb. I know the lat. is 37' I also know that The declination angle from mag. north is 11' if I have my compass I can adjust to true North is it sufficient to set a new mount up in this manner. Does it have to be the southern celestial pole, why not North???
I know Marios mentioned a HE 5 but that pushes the budget a bit. Will the EQ3 do the the job?

Hi cautious,
The ED 80 is a good scope for beginning astronomy but astro-photography is a different ball game altogether. There are plenty of threads here to help though.

You do need to polar align any eq mount for it to work effectively but for visual use, the alignment does not have to be anywhere near as accurate as for photography. You align on a the South Celestial Pole from Aussie. The North Celstial Pole is marked by a star called Polaris and its invisible from here. Think about a globe of the earth and extend the earths axis into space. Polaris is "above" the North Pole. We have a star called Sigma Octanis but its only visible, without a scope, under dark skies, not a hope from Melb. You can get your polar alignment more accurate by learning "drift alignment" ... and there is sure to be a thread here on that topic.

If I were you, I would forget about trying to do photography to start with, except for the moon and perhaps wide field work with just an DSLR. The moon so bright its easy through a telescope, (very short exposures), and the very low magnification of a DSLR will make tracking errors quite easy to mask. for panoramic shots. The results, in both cases, can be amazing!

Pretty much anything else celestial requires a RIGID mount and precision tracking. An eq 3 will probably struggle.

It might help if you specify your budget and what precisely are your interests in astronomy are so people can point you in the right direction.

Rom

[Brycepj (Peter)]

Thanks Rom, Budget is $1500 Being able to take the scope on travels is a " "must have" like to be able to see Nebulas Saturns rings,Star clusters such as jewel box cluster ( better than I can see in my 10x50 Bin) Etc. The long term goal is astro photography but that's a fair way down the track. I would like to start with a decent scope and have been recommended the Ed80 on a Eq5 with Goto capability but like the challenge finding stars clusters etc my self
The ED 80 being an Apo really appeals and it's a scope that I would keep for awhile. There is so much to choose from and take into account it is hard to know if I'm making the right choices. A refractor is my preferred option I have at least made that decision.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by Brycepj

Thanks Rom, Budget is $1500 Being able to take the scope on travels is a " "must have" like to be able to see Nebulas Saturns rings,Star clusters such as jewel box cluster ( better than I can see in my 10x50 Bin) Etc. The long term goal is astro photography but that's a fair way down the track. I would like to start with a decent scope and have been recommended the Ed80 on a Eq5 with Goto capability but like the challenge finding stars clusters etc my self
The ED 80 being an Apo really appeals and it's a scope that I would keep for awhile. There is so much to choose from and take into account it is hard to know if I'm making the right choices. A refractor is my preferred option I have at least made that decision.

Ok, There are a couple of things to consider:

- If imaging is way down the track then consider yourself a visual observer to start with. At a later stage, if the passion is there, you can join the upgrade train and build up to a scope that will do imaging well. (Thats code for "run away as fast as you can NOW")

- If you are a visual observer, then size matters, to a point. DSO's generally require a lot a of light gathering power. This suggests a reflector, particularly for the faint fuzzies.

- A refractor is compact but wont show very faint diffuse targets very well. Good for clusters, moon and stuff like Saturns rings, cloud belts on Jupiter and a bunch of "moons". One of my first scopes was a 60mm achromatic refractor and Saturn was unforgettable. If you want to resolve brighter globulars, you need 80+ mm aperture. A 10 inch Dob will do this really well. A 10"-12" reflector would leave an 80mm in the dust for both resolving power and light grasp.

- A travel scope can range from a backpack scope on a camera tripod through to a 10" -12" Dob in a car. Both options have advantages and drawbacks.

- The key is to get something that will encourage your interest but can be on-sold as your skill / interest develops. Since you've said you like the idea of star hopping, (Good fun), go for a simple mount and learn about the sky first. Alt-Az is easy to use.

- Not sure a refractor will meet all your needs and I suggest you explore the reflector option a bit more from the perspective of light grasp. You can upgarde many dobs to GOTO capability, for example, or perhaps experiment with an "equatorial platform" for short run imaging Equatorial mounts take time to setup for observing, alt-az is a more practical grab and go option

- As for the budget, you can buy new but the second hand gear in the classifieds is a VERY pragmatic way to increase the size of scope you get; most folks look after their stuff very well and you can end up with an essentially new scope for 75% or less of retail. If you go refractor, I'd try for a 100mm ED if you can stretch it; 50% more light grasp than a 80mm and more targets within reach.

Hope this helps a little

Rom

[Brycepj (Peter)]

Rom thanks for you advice. so basically I should be looking at either a reflector or refractor on alt Az mount providing the refractor is 100mm.
I have discounted the reflector after read about collmination issues and is it true that the images are reverse/mirror images ? Should I still look at Apo refractors? What 2nd hand sites can you refer me to that are trustworthy and reasonable

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by Brycepj

Rom thanks for you advice. so basically I should be looking at either a reflector or refractor on alt Az mount providing the refractor is 100mm.
I have discounted the reflector after read about collmination issues and is it true that the images are reverse/mirror images ? Should I still look at Apo refractors? What 2nd hand sites can you refer me to that are trustworthy and reasonable

For simplicity,
- I'd go for a 10 to 12 inch Dob, with a low F ratio say F4 or F5. Size may be an issue with the 12"
- For a refractor, I'd try for a 100mm, (Just that bit bigger) on an alt-az. Later on, you can move this over to an equatorial.

Its true reflectors need to be re-aligned frequently compared to a refractor, but the process is pretty simple and there are lots of tutorials on how to do it.

In all astronomical scopes, the image is inverted but there is no up or down in space, so its irrelevant. You can get a gadget that will flip the image back but its just one more element that robs you of light. For a refractor, get an apo because it gives a better image than an achromatic lens, no / little false colour.

Generally, astro sites are pretty reliable but its a case of buyer beware. The classifieds on IIS are a great source of gear and I use the site often. This is another:

http://www.astrobuysell.com/au/

If you see something that appeals, ask other people their opinion. Most are quite honest and only to willing to help. Sellers often have an extended history of posts and you can get an idea of what they are like.

Rom

[astro744]

Any odd number of reflections will cause reversed images, i.e. View will not match star char. An even number of reflections will produce an upside down image but not reversed and the view will match a star chart.

A Newtonian reflector has two mirrors so produces an upside down image with no reversal.

A refractor with star diagonal has one mirror and produces an upright image with left/right reversal.

An SCT has three mirrors with star diagonal and also produces a reversed image.

Upside down does not really matter with astro objects but reversed does if trying to compare with charts. It is only really an issue with wide fields when trying to find something.

[Amaranthus (Barry)]

I got the SW120 achro for widefield visual, and it's terrific for that purpose. $ for $, it's hard to beat! On planets you get some CA, but it's not too bad, especially with filters. It's a good low-cost way to get into refractors, with a decent light grasp for the DSOs, especially if your skies are dark.

[The_Cat (Jeremy)]

Cannot add too much to this discussion.

1. Here is a very nice piece of gear. It may be a bit out of the price range but it is very nice:

http://www.myastroshop.com.au/produc...sp?id=MAS-041J

Upgrading these from a standard to goto model gets expensive it is cheaper to get the goto model straight away. don't worry about collimation it is easy to learn and do!

2. For use with the binoculars / smaller telescope recommend getting the

Bright Star Atlas 2000.0
By
Wil Tirion and Brian Skiff

This atlas has lists of objects on each page. You will also get used to the co-ordinate system ... RA / dec .

3. One of the classic books for the amateur astronomer:

Norton's STAR ATLAS
and Reference Handbook

EDITED BY IAN RIDPATH.

Clear skies,

Jeremy

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by The_Cat

2. For use with the binoculars / smaller telescope recommend getting the

Bright Star Atlas 2000.0
By
Wil Tirion and Brian Skiff

This atlas has lists of objects on each page. You will also get used to the co-ordinate system ... RA / dec .

This is amazing value FREE
http://www.deepskywatch.com/deepsky-atlas.html