Panoptics

[matt]

Hi guys

Was having a look today at a few eyepieces. Namely, some Naglers and Panoptics.

I noticed the Panoptics had this inscribed on their barrel: TAIWAN ROC

The Naglers I looked at had JAPAN on them.

Have the Panoptics always come from Taiwan or is this a recent thing, and is it possible to pick up Pans made in JAPAN???

If anyone has any links to debates focusing on the relative merits and drawbacks of where these eyepieces are manufactured I'd be grateful if you could post these.

Thanks

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

I think even most Naglers are Taiwanese. The T6 and T4 I used to own were. It's not a new thing because I've seen older Radians that were Taiwanese.

Plossls are still made in Japan.

[matt]

Yeah.

My 13mm T6 Nagler was made in Japan.

Thanks Steve

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

hmm maybe I'm mistaken about the T6. I read that the bigger TV EPs were made in Taiwan, smaller ones in Japan. These were definitely Taiwanese: 17mm T4, 19 and 27mm Pano

[xstream (John)]

Just checked in the case T4's Taiwanese, T6's Japanese, TV Wide Fields Japanese.

[Don Pensack]

Panoptics have always been Taiwan, SFAIK. But, judging by the quality of TeleVue's Taiwanese offerings, you needn't worry.
I've dealt with Taiwanese manufacturers for over 25 years. Here is what I've discovered: 99% of the buyers who come to them ask "Can you make it cheaper?", not "Can you make it better?" When asked the second question, the usual reply is, "It'll cost a lot more." But, in most cases I've dealt with, that "lot more" translates into reducing the profit margin 1 or 2% at retail, a negligible amount to get something that is often a LOT better.
When you tell a company that they need to improve the quality by imposing strict lot testing and individual inspection of every item, they will. When you tell them you will do the same and return any that don't pass your standards (something TeleVue does), all of a sudden there are no blems, defects, or examples of poor workmanship.
Does this cost more? Yes. Does it mean you are better off with a Made-In-Japan label? No. The electrically run machines don't care what nationality the power is.
It's all about quality control.
Funny thing: in the bicycle business, Taiwan is considered the source for High-end, elite products, while 95% come from mainland China. My numerous visits to Taiwan have convinced me there is a difference in approach to manufacturing there as opposed to the mainland. So long as a quality-conscious company oversees the set-up of assembly procedures, and there are several stages of quality control (which definitely seems to be the case with TeleVue's Taiwanese production), you have nothing to fear from a Made-In-Taiwan label.
If it doesn't work well in your scope, blame the designer. Al can take the heat.

[matt]

Thanks for your reply Don.

A very informed response and much appreciated.

It's good to have you "on board" the good ship IIS

[Starkler (Geoff)]

On the question of quality control, Televue are not perfect.
The 24mm panoptic I bought last year had a malformed filter thread on the bottom of the barrel. Apparently Im not the only one to have had this problem. Thankfully the dealer who sold it swapped out the barrel for me after a lot of cajoling.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Ditto my 19mm, Geoff. Bintel sent me a replacement no probs.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by Starkler

On the question of quality control, Televue are not perfect.
The 24mm panoptic I bought last year had a malformed filter thread on the bottom of the barrel. Apparently Im not the only one to have had this problem. Thankfully the dealer who sold it swapped out the barrel for me after a lot of cajoling.

This is very true Geoff. Televue are certainly very good, both in quality control and optical design. They are NOT PERFECT, I am yet to find anyone that is, with Zeiss being the closest. Unfortunately there are many people out there, both Americans and otherwise, who have a misconception that because something has a "Televue" or "Nagler" label, it must be perfect. Not the case. There are several companies who produce some outstanding products, but they do not have the market share, hence word of mouth recommendation, or advertising exposure of Televue, hence they are not well known and often not recommended. Evaluated objectively, their products are just as good and in some cases better. I saw a classic example recently. Someone posted on another forum that the eyepiece "was a Nagler so must be good". Unfortunately that's a long way from the truth. I have used a few Nagler/televue eyepieces over the years which I thought only average with many faults. I have also used several Televue/Nagler eyepieces which are superb, without fault. They are not all created equal.

It's unfortunate that not everyone evaluates ALL of Televues products objectively based on specific performance aspects, from an unbiased point of view, as opposed to reputation.

CS-John B

[mickoking]

My 13mm Nagler is Japenese and my 27mm Pan is Taiwanese. They are both absolute gems. I am very happy with the Tele Vue products I own Pity their "scopes are so expensive (overpriced IMHO).