Push-to

[CockneyNutjob]

Hello again everyone,

I know you can get go-to kits, but, can you buy push-to kit. I now have 8 inch Saxon Dob and wondered if there was a push-to kit thar I could fix to it,

Cheers.

Edit: also do the RA/dec of an object change. If I entered these numbers do they stay static while our (earths) numbers change? This may seem like a real do-nut beginners question but that's what I am :0(

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Yep, there is. Argo Navis from Wildcard Innovations makes them:

http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/

Any questions about Argo Navis can be addressed in this IIS thread:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=35708

Argo Navis is the premier push-to system that there is. It isn't limited to push-to either as it can be fitted to a go-to system too. Better still, it is an all Australian product that is sold world wide,

[raymo]

The R.A. and Dec remain the same, but because things do move
over long periods of time, sky atlases have to be updated to show the new positions. Because of the large amount of work involved in updating, and also because the changes in position are not great, updates are generally carried out at 50 year intervals. We are now using epoch 2000.
Earlier atlases used epoch 1950, so as we move further past 2000 small
inaccuracies in the positions of the apparently faster moving objects
creep in. When the 2050 atlases are published the positions will be spot on again.
raymo

[mark3d]

If you don't have a lazy $1000 to drop on Argo Navis, you can make a surprisingly good system for about $50. You print a 360 degree circle for the base of the dob which tells you the Az in degrees, and use an angle gauge on the scope tube to get the Alt in degrees. Then lookup the current coordinates of the object you want to find on a device (laptop with stellarium, phone with Skeye or ipad with sky safari etc.) and point the scope to the coordinates.

It is genius in its simplicity, more info here: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarchi.../o/all/fpart/1

The early iterations use a printed angle for the Alt as well, but then someone had the idea of using one of these ... http://www.amazon.com/Wixey-WR300-Di.../dp/B001PTGBRQ.

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Or strap your smartphone to your telescope tube, and use an app such as SkEye to point your telescope
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....lavadip.skeye

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Couple of points. The smartphone solution sounds nice but it has some drawbacks.
Firstly, it would need to be accurately aligned to the optical axis of the scope. This could be achieved using an adjustable bracket, pointing the scope at a bright star and then moving the bracket until that bright star appears on the screen. Secondly, I have my doubts about the accuracy of the methods used in smartphones to detect position. Thirdly (and this is my min point) successful observation is deeply dependent upon dark adaption, I have tried using smartphones and tablets at the scope and the dimming and redlight programs they use still leave the screen way too bright. You could cover the screen but that means that you cannot use the phone anyway.
With the circles and inclinometer system the main issue is making sure the base is securely level. If you think about it, a slightly tilted base will make the alt readings meaningless as you move from object to object.
I have used Argo Navis for a couple of years now and can attest to it's simplicity, ease of use, well though out design, excellent product support ( on more than one occasion I have rung Gary with questions and he has happily answered them and gone above and beyond to help me) and accuracy. You don't have to worry about level bases, the screen is suitably dim, it is flexible and Aussie made!
Yes it is not a cheap solution, but that first night when you set it up and go looking to an object and it pops it into the middle of your eyepice it feels like $$$ well spent.

Malcolm

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by barx1963

Couple of points. The smartphone solution sounds nice but it has some drawbacks.
Firstly, it would need to be accurately aligned to the optical axis of the scope. This could be achieved using an adjustable bracket, pointing the scope at a bright star and then moving the bracket until that bright star appears on the screen. Secondly, I have my doubts about the accuracy of the methods used in smartphones to detect position. Thirdly (and this is my min point) successful observation is deeply dependent upon dark adaption, I have tried using smartphones and tablets at the scope and the dimming and redlight programs they use still leave the screen way too bright. You could cover the screen but that means that you cannot use the phone anyway.
With the circles and inclinometer system the main issue is making sure the base is securely level. If you think about it, a slightly tilted base will make the alt readings meaningless as you move from object to object.
I have used Argo Navis for a couple of years now and can attest to it's simplicity, ease of use, well though out design, excellent product support ( on more than one occasion I have rung Gary with questions and he has happily answered them and gone above and beyond to help me) and accuracy. You don't have to worry about level bases, the screen is suitably dim, it is flexible and Aussie made!
Yes it is not a cheap solution, but that first night when you set it up and go looking to an object and it pops it into the middle of your eyepice it feels like $$$ well spent.

Malcolm

Sure, a smartphone solution will never be as accurate as dedicated hardware, but I would STRONGLY suggest people give SkEye or similar apps a try on their manual scope before investing in a costly GoTo or PushTo kit. After all, the basic version is free, so what have you got to lose? The paid version is only $10, and adds a bigger database, including comets and satellites.

SkEye doesn't use the camera for alignment - you strap your phone or tablet to your scope tube in any convenient manner (e. g. a mounting bracket, Velcro, elastic band, whatever), then you align your telescope on a known object, and tell the app where the Scope is pointing. The app then uses your phone's compass and accelerometers to detect changes in altitude and azimuth to point you to new targets, or tell you what you are looking at. Modern smartphone sensors are surprisingly accurate, especially for detecting differences rather than absolute positions, a fraction of a degree difference is easily attainable. Don't dismiss the capabilities of these sensors until you try them! If you move around the sky a lot, it may be necessary to re-align the app from time to time, but it only takes a few seconds.

Secondly, in night mode, it uses a very dull red display, so dark adaptation isn't affected either.

Well worth a look! If you like what it does, you may want to buy a more expensive and accurate PushTo or GoTo kit, but most beginners will get a lot out of just using the app.

[Monstar (Johnny)]

Is SkEye android only, I can't seem to find it in the iPhone App Store. I have iPushto and it is ok to get you in a rough area, I'm laying it on top of the scope just by hand so that may be why. I recently bought a planisphere, as I'm a noob, and this seems to be the better option for me at the moment, I'm finding star charts incredibly confusing. I've searched for a "how to" guide but can't seem to find one aimed at my level, anyone know of one?

I've also found that planning what to search for before hand is important to me as most of my observing is done from my backyard or balcony and the observable portion of sky is partly blocked by my house. I also enjoy the 'hunt' anyway but after some time it would be nice to just press a few buttons to show me a position of a target.

[Monstar (Johnny)]

I've just seen there's another thread re star chart so disregard that part of last post.

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Well I have gone and had a look at Skeye and of the programs I have seen it is not bad. Red light is actually really dim. Will have to test the accuracy on a scope but still have a couple of concerns which others may answer.
Firstly it didn't like being anywhere near metallic or electronic objects. Metal tubes, dew heaters and batteries are often found on scopes. Secondly it would have to be very securely fastened as you are navigating by pushing on the screen. Velcro would likely result in it moving and losing alignment. Thirdly, if you only have a small phone it is going to be hard to use when tired and cold.
Fourthly the catalogue is very limited, only 194 NGC objects.
Anyway the idea seems sound.

Malcolm

[noeyedeer (Matt)]

Originally Posted by barx1963

Well I have gone and had a look at Skeye and of the programs I have seen it is not bad. Red light is actually really dim. Will have to test the accuracy on a scope but still have a couple of concerns which others may answer.
Firstly it didn't like being anywhere near metallic or electronic objects. Metal tubes, dew heaters and batteries are often found on scopes. Secondly it would have to be very securely fastened as you are navigating by pushing on the screen. Velcro would likely result in it moving and losing alignment. Thirdly, if you only have a small phone it is going to be hard to use when tired and cold.
Fourthly the catalogue is very limited, only 194 NGC objects.
Anyway the idea seems sound.

Malcolm

hi Malcolm, if you do decide to try it out, I learnt with my experience (only used it once) that Velcro is sufficient to secure the phone to the scope, as youre only touching the screen to align the app to that object. the thing I didn't realise was you can do multiple star alignment which makes it more accurate, especially if the stars are within an area of exploration.

obviously moving the scope considerable distances will throw it off .. but a quick realign would make it accurate. (according to other users).

the pro version has the full ngc, ic and messier catalogues, with size and surface brightess filters for each.

I've been wanting to test it out again but work and poor conditions have limited me to the binos since I've realised what I was doing wrong.

please do comment if you give it a try ..

also, I checked the magnetic field of my scope and where I have my Velcro located it's registering around 70uT and normal is 50uT. tested some pots and they hit the 288-300 mark so im guessing there's not much interferance.

matt

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Google Sky Maps is free, seems quite accurate .

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by ZeroID

Google Sky Maps is free, seems quite accurate .

Yes, it's fine for telling you what you are looking at for naked-eye observation, but if you have even a small pair of binoculars or telescope, you'll find you can see FAR more than Google Sky Map can show, as it has a very limited database, and sky image resolution is also very limited.

I don't think you can use Google Sky Map as a practical PushTo tool either, unless you can somehow get your phone lined up perfectly with the telescope's axis - and that means having the screen perfecetly perpendicular to the tube axis, rather than just laying it flat on the telescope and fixing with velcro or a rubbed band, or using a standard phone bracket or similar (all of which will work easily with an app like SkEye).

If Google Sky Map whets your interest, you really should take a look at the numerous free / low-cost planetarium apps, such as SkySafari 4, SkEye, etc.

[Suzy]

I had the skeye app- I used (tried) several times but it kept failing due to constant magnetic interference.
It's a metal tube shouldn't there be interference anyway with the phone .

Two strips of velcro held in place firmly. But despite doing constant 2 star alignments it kept throwing me too far off the targets. They do say when you move to another patch of sky to re-do the alignments but I found this to be highly time consuming and tedious and wasteful of good sky weather. Especially as when I stayed on that patch of sky it wasn't accurate anyway.

So in my experience, I gave it a big thumbs down- I did try it several times. I ended up by spending the $$$ on the Argo Narvis and I haven't looked back since. As Malcom said, Gary is fantastic to deal with- the support is 100% there straight away. You just need to know a bit about electronics tho as there's no way known I could've rigged it up myself, so if you're no good at it, seek the help of someone.

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Hi,

Second this. For a push-to, with support and good equipment, there is no going past Argo Navis.

Cheers

[Suzy]

Originally Posted by Monstar

Is SkEye android only, I can't seem to find it in the iPhone App Store. I have iPushto and it is ok to get you in a rough area, I'm laying it on top of the scope just by hand so that may be why. I recently bought a planisphere, as I'm a noob, and this seems to be the better option for me at the moment, I'm finding star charts incredibly confusing. I've searched for a "how to" guide but can't seem to find one aimed at my level, anyone know of one?

I've also found that planning what to search for before hand is important to me as most of my observing is done from my backyard or balcony and the observable portion of sky is partly blocked by my house. I also enjoy the 'hunt' anyway but after some time it would be nice to just press a few buttons to show me a position of a target.

Hi Johnny, you're holding a push-to device with your hand? Is that an Argo Narvis unit? I wouldn't expect too much accuracy from hand holding a device but I think you're finding that out .

Johnny, keep your learning curve simple. Go slow. The sky is not going anywhere. The best advice I can give- in my experience anyway- which is how I started, is this:

* Stay in that same patch sky. South is a great place to "stay" as there's so many goodies in a fairly small patch of sky- around the Southern Cross, Carina and Vela.

* Use the planisphere. It's simple and non confusing and only gives really bright easy to see & find objects on it.

* Start learning the 26 brightest stars in the sky. Start with the ones that are in season now. These are your guide stars to show you where the constellations and objects are. They will become old friends of yours & you will get excited seeing them each season, I bet you!
http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~dolan/con...brightest.html

* Learn how to measure the sky with your hand. This way you will know how far away from that bright star the object is.
http://oldthoughts.wordpress.com/200...ing-your-hand/

* Get a computer sky programme. Stellarium (is free) or Starry Nights. Amongst many things it will help you with, it will tell you how many degrees away from those bright stars those objects are. Then you measure the sky with your hand and can see for yourself where it should be.

Eventually- it won't take too long trust me- star hopping will become much easier and a lot more fun. And rewarding! If I can do it, anyone can- I've always been hopeless with road maps but I can now read the sky pretty well- so there's your incentive .

I always recommend time spent star hopping before going to push or go-to devices. Aside from getting a connectivity with the sky that manual star hopping gives, it also assists greatly when looking for things out of the ordinary like faint objects such as asteroids, comets and supernovae and your newly acquired skills will excel here! And also when your devices fail and batteries go kaput .

And read posts #13, #14, and #15 here by moi .
Practically everything you need to know on how to get you started is in those posts. And most of all- take your time and enjoy! You will definitely get there as I did.
All the best.

[Varangian (John)]

Originally Posted by Suzy

Hi Johnny, you're holding a push-to device with your hand? Is that an Argo Narvis unit? I wouldn't expect too much accuracy from hand holding a device but I think you're finding that out .

Johnny, keep your learning curve simple. Go slow. The sky is not going anywhere. The best advice I can give- in my experience anyway- which is how I started, is this:

* Stay in that same patch sky. South is a great place to "stay" as there's so many goodies in a fairly small patch of sky- around the Southern Cross, Carina and Vela.

* Use the planisphere. It's simple and non confusing and only gives really bright easy to see & find objects on it.

* Start learning the 26 brightest stars in the sky. Start with the ones that are in season now. These are your guide stars to show you where the constellations and objects are. They will become old friends of yours & you will get excited seeing them each season, I bet you!
http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~dolan/con...brightest.html

* Learn how to measure the sky with your hand. This way you will know how far away from that bright star the object is.
http://oldthoughts.wordpress.com/200...ing-your-hand/

* Get a computer sky programme. Stellarium (is free) or Starry Nights. Amongst many things it will help you with, it will tell you how many degrees away from those bright stars those objects are. Then you measure the sky with your hand and can see for yourself where it should be.

Eventually- it won't take too long trust me- star hopping will become much easier and a lot more fun. And rewarding! If I can do it, anyone can- I've always been hopeless with road maps but I can now read the sky pretty well- so there's your incentive .

I always recommend time spent star hopping before going to push or go-to devices. Aside from getting a connectivity with the sky that manual star hopping gives, it also assists greatly when looking for things out of the ordinary like faint objects such as asteroids, comets and supernovae and your newly acquired skills will excel here! And also when your devices fail and batteries go kaput .

And read posts #13, #14, and #15 here by moi .
Practically everything you need to know on how to get you started is in those posts. And most of all- take your time and enjoy! You will definitely get there as I did.
All the best.

Nope. Argo Navis is as good as you'll get (and it's very good!)

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=35708

[Monstar (Johnny)]

Hi Suzy,

I wasn't holding (or using) Argo Navis in my hand, I was holding my iPhone on top of tube using an app could iPushto which doesn't do what it says on the tin due to magnetic interference with the scope.

I do indeed use a planisphere to plan a session, and am still getting my head around star charts.

I only read today as it goes about measuring with the fist and fingers so when this cloud gives Brisbane a swerve can give that a go.

Thanks everyone for all the tips, much appreciated.

[Suzy]

Johnny- ah I see. And yes being a fellow Brisbane-ite, I know what you mean with the cloud .

John- . Embrace those stars for yourself first (before electronic aid) I still stand by!

[Varangian (John)]

[QUOTE=Suzy;1090115]Johnny- ah I see. And yes being a fellow Brisbane-ite, I know what you mean with the cloud .

John- . Embrace those stars for yourself first (before electronic aid) I still stand by! [/QUOTE

Tired of star hopping and seeing 2-5 targets over the course of the night. I can see heaps more with aid and it makes my viewing time more productive