Future Decisions regarding Uni Courses

[orestis]

Hi Everyone,

Its no surprise I have an interest in astronomy and astrophysics. However I also have an interest in engineering.

I was wondering what your thoughts are on undertaking a double degree of Aerospace engineering and science. Majoring in physics of course.

What Uni is the best option ? My highest options at the moment are UNSW, USYD and then Macquarie university(No Aerospace).

Which Uni will be the best for Astrophysics and also the Aerospace Engineering side as well?

Thanks in advance
Orestis

[AstralTraveller (David)]

The general advice given to prospective uni students is to do what you like because then you will do well and that opens doors. Perhaps not the ones you expect but doors none-the-less. Also, be prepared to change your plans. I went to uni to become a land/environment manager (you know, fight the good fight) but in second year did a subject on past climate and environment and loved it. I started a PhD on paleoclimate which I didn't finish (long unhappy story) but wound up becoming a technician in the geochemistry lab running mass spectrometers, GCs, HPLC etc. It's a good enough job but nothing like where I expected to be 20 years ago.

When choosing a uni, it is often said that at undergrad level it's the reputation of the uni you consider (assuming it offers the course you want) but at postgrad level it's the reputation of the academic unit you consider. [Of course other issues like travel and accommodation also raise their heads.] I think in general those three unis have a good reputation so I couldn't split them that way. I would look at the academic units where you will be based. How big are they? Are they static or growing? What sort of research do they do? Some of that may seem a bit remote when doing Eng101 but the benefits of being in the right place will become more apparent over time.

[Astro_Bot]

David's advice is sound.

Originally Posted by orestis

I was wondering what your thoughts are on undertaking a double degree of Aerospace engineering and science. Majoring in physics of course.

Do your homework on engineering opportunities before choosing it as an occupation. In addition to a cyclic downturn in employment, there are also (apparently) structural econonomic changes going on that are negatively affecting engineering jobs.

As to which Uni, both UNSW and USyd are competent. I would favour UNSW at undergrad level in engineering.

[gary]

Originally Posted by orestis

What Uni is the best option ? My highest options at the moment are UNSW, USYD and then Macquarie university(No Aerospace).

First of all I gather you have just received your HSC and ATAR results.

Congratulations!

With regards your choice of university, I cannot overemphasize the advice to
attend the engineering open days at both Sydney and UNSW.

Chat to the staff and lab assistants. Are they excited about what they are doing?
Eager to show off some cool stuff? Keen to recruit in their ranks?

Look at each school's respective infrastructure, labs and equipment.

For example, does one possibly have a new state-of-the-art wind tunnel or
supercomputer? Better student computing facilities? Something that gives
it that edge?

Does one have better industry connections?

Does one have a stronger space engineering department?

Many years ago when I was at the point you are now I wanted to become
an Electrical Engineer with a strong emphasis on digital electronics and
computing.

Since Sydney Uni was the older and more famous, I at first naturally
assumed I would prefer to attend there.

But after going to both the open days at Sydney Uni and UNSW, my mind
was made up that UNSW was the better place. So that's where I ended
up and I never regretted it.

For example, whereas at Sydney Uni the computing department had this
historical legacy of being a part of the School of Mathematics, at UNSW
it was part of the School of Elec. Eng. Whereas at Sydney students were
still using punch cards which they submitted as batch jobs, at UNSW the
electrical engineering and computer science students had their own DEC
mini-computer with labs filled with terminals and a brand new operating system
that many of the staff were actively contributing to called UNIX.

But things can change over time so you must go and visit both for yourself.

Best of luck!

Gary Kopff
Mt Kuring-Gai NSW
Phone 02 9457 9049

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

I'm not convinced by double degrees.

In the same time frame you could have a masters too or be started into a PhD programme. The depth of your knowledge will be greater that way and give you better exposure to whichever industry when it comes to job seeking.

Perhaps any US IISer may like to comment, as both of your chosen paths have a high chance of work State-side, and when I graduated, the companies were looking for Masters level entry candidates. That was 25 years ago, so things may well be very different!

But which ever way you chose, stick by your decision and have fun. It is a long haul, but very satisfying

[gary]

Originally Posted by AstroJunk

I'm not convinced by double degrees.

In the same time frame you could have a masters too or be started into a PhD programme. The depth of your knowledge will be greater that way and give you better exposure to whichever industry when it comes to job seeking.

With respect to Bachelors of Engineering and Science, I would tend to agree with this.

I just had a quick glance at the required credit points for Bachelors of Engineering,
Bachelors of Science and combined degrees from the University of Sydney.

if I am interpreting their tables correctly, a combined degree requires a minimum of
240 credits.

A single Bachelor of Science degree only 144 credits.

A single Bachelor of Engineering degree 192 credits.

In other words, you can think of the Engineering degree as being 80% of what
is required for the combined degree.

But for a Science degree you are only 60% of the way there.

But that is not the whole story as I will try and describe below. There are the
number of contact hours the course book outlines and then there are the number
of hours you actually spend outside of each course working on projects and
assignments.

The reality on the grounds of campus is telling. When you do an Engineering
degree the contact hours per week are long and demanding. Apart from the number
of lectures, tutorials and labs, the projects and assignments are often very time consuming
and require many of your waking hours and a good many of your normally
sleeping ones as well. You come in Mon to Fri and the days are long without a lot of time for any fun
or rest.

By comparison, depending on what they are specifically doing, your colleagues
doing Science degrees tend to have not only far fewer contact hours but the
workload outside of the contact hours tends to be lighter. When you've been
up all night trying to complete the engineering assignment for the following day, they will
tell you about what a good time they had at the rock gig down at the pub.

You will spot them because they are the ones that get to lounge around for hours in
the sun on the library lawn.

So if you do the double degree, there is a good deal of overlap between the
Engineering courses and the Science courses, but you should be mentally
prepared to regard the Science degree as the side-salad.

During my time when now and then those trying to do the double would burn out, they
would often end up just opting for the salad. Who could blame them.

Jonathon puts it well. My own advice is that the world is so specialized that you
are probably better concentrating on depth rather than breadth.

[orestis]

Thanks a lot guys for the great advice.

However I think doing a double degree just gives you that extra flexibility in what you want to do. Yeah you will probably end up using one of the degrees to get a job. But if employment is low in one field, u can try the other.

I understand it will be a lot of hard work, but I will be determined to see it through.

Thank you very much for your insight Gary . Unfortunately all the info days are on the same day and that very day is the last day to make a choice. I think it is somehow purposely done to make u blindly choose a university.

Anyways, I still have a bit of time to think about it.
Thanks again
Orestis

[AstralTraveller (David)]

No matter what degree you do, if you intend to do well it's a truck load of work. Trust me on that. If you're ambitious you don't want to pass, you want HDs. It's said that HDs are twice the work of a pass but I reckon it's more like 3-4 times. Library lawn? I was in the library.

BTW
There are more women doing science than engineering. Just sayin'.