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Old 30-10-2013, 04:17 PM
Neutronstar (T)
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A compact CAT, advice please

Hi all,

I have had a lifetime astronomy interest. I used camera tripod mounted binoculars as a kid. Now I'd like to purchase something for some general family viewing.

From the outset my budget is probably no more than AU$1500 for scope, tripod and eyepiece. However, my biggest issue is wife friendly storage. I don't have a lot of room anyway, and any scope is better than no scope. Its a bad way of looking at things but the scope will more likely be kept and used if it can be stored easily. (most scopes spend more time being stored than used). Also its likely to be taken on weekend outings if quick and easy to move. You may ask what I want to look at? My answer would be - anything the scope is capable of.

That said and with this in mind I have been thinking a CAT that breaks down to OTA, tripod and ancillory parts. I don't feel a need to have GOTO. While I can see its benfit, I think we'd enjoy learning to track objects down. With this budget am I being realistic that I can't reach a 6" mirror, I'm more likely in 5" CAT territory?

After some reading I get the feeling that a Russian Intes MK503 (US$800) or a Santel MK6 (US$1100) is a better buy than say a kit like the Celestron XLT-127, 5" Skywatcher or Saxon Mak which includes a tripod. I have no fear in sourcing bits and assembling items. I have been a long time camera enthusiast and have some electronics knowledge. I often sourced camera gear OS. I'd rather buy a quality instrument with lower specs than something cheap and consumer grade.

What, if any downside is there to going with a MK503 or Santel MK6? or is the Saxon/Celestron a better route for a re-beginner.
Thoughts?

Thank you in advance
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Old 30-10-2013, 05:34 PM
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JRC (John)
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For what its worth i just had my Celestron 6 side by side with an Intes 65 Mak in Sydney. I had been toying with getting a Mak you see thought it might have better field qualities. The C6 even though a few years old has hardly been out of the box (its still in tissue) and really gave surprisingly good images and very high contrast. So i would have a good look at one of these. Mounts are fairly cheap in particular there are often Vixen GPs on this forum for under $300 and tis telescope will sit on one of these with ease!

that said i am getting a new refractor soon i will probably list the C6 sometime in the near future. I have a c11 as well so the c6 was an extravagance!
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Old 30-10-2013, 10:31 PM
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Camelopardalis (Dunk)
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The C6 is only 3.5kg before accessories so you have a lot of choice of mounts. Only a shame they're so expensive here compared with elsewhere
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Old 30-10-2013, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopardalis View Post
The C6 is only 3.5kg before accessories so you have a lot of choice of mounts. Only a shame they're so expensive here compared with elsewhere
OPT in US has the C6 OTA on special at the moment, and they will ship to Aust.
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  #5  
Old 31-10-2013, 02:33 AM
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I haven't heard of an Intes MK503 before, the specs I found online are the same as the Intes-Micro Alter M500. Personally, I would shoot for 6" or larger, unless low weight is of great importance.

The Santel MK6 seems to be today's incarnation of the erstwhile Intes MK67 (which I've got), the two look identical and have the same specs. It has a fixed primary mirror and Crayford focuser, and a separate secondary mirror in a cell that allows for collimation (Rumak design). Not many of the Russian Maks combine these two features, which are important to me. I haven't seen any Santel scopes in the flesh, but the company is run by ex-Intes people. If their scopes are anything like the old Intes ones I'd say you can't go wrong with the MK6.

The modern C6 is a capable scope, but feels like a toy in comparison with those Russian Maks (and weighs only half as much).

Cheers
Steffen.
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Old 31-10-2013, 09:27 AM
Poita (Peter)
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For about a grand you could get a 10" SCT on forks and tripod. Doesn't take up much room really, but is a bit heavy.
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  #7  
Old 31-10-2013, 10:29 AM
casstony
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The Celestron 6SE is a very portable package and the C6 typically has very good optics giving good planetary views and decent views of the brighter deep sky objects. You could probably find a second hand one with a wanted ad or buy new for $1500 from Andrews Communications.
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  #8  
Old 31-10-2013, 10:48 AM
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Tim,

I have a Celestron C6 XLT riding on a Nexstar goto altaz mount which I use as my grab and go set up and which I highly recommend you take a closer look at

It's lightweight, easy to assemble and disassemble and very easy to set up for goto and tracking and can of course be used without the goto if you want. The views with the C6 are just as good as with my Skywatcher BD 6" newt. I do think that the altaz set up is easier to get to grips with than an EQ mount. (But if you want to do serious imaging then of course goto EQ is the way to go.) And I do strongly recommend going with goto - I learned more and more quickly once I switched to goto (and Argo Navis guiding on my 12" Dob) once I switched over from manual.

I see that OPT Telescopes has this setup for sale and with postage would come in at about $1100 and there is no GST on cost of items (excluding postage) at under $1000. It would seem that they post to Australia to judge by comment below. I bought my rig second hand on IIS - first the mount and later the C6 - and I think for about $1100 all up.

Regards,
Eric
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Old 31-10-2013, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric48 View Post
Tim,

I have a Celestron C6 XLT riding on a Nexstar goto altaz mount which I use as my grab and go set up and which I highly recommend you take a closer look at

It's lightweight, easy to assemble and disassemble and very easy to set up for goto and tracking and can of course be used without the goto if you want. The views with the C6 are just as good as with my Skywatcher BD 6" newt. I do think that the altaz set up is easier to get to grips with than an EQ mount. (But if you want to do serious imaging then of course goto EQ is the way to go.) And I do strongly recommend going with goto - I learned more and more quickly once I switched to goto (and Argo Navis guiding on my 12" Dob) once I switched over from manual.

I see that OPT Telescopes has this setup for sale and with postage would come in at about $1100 and there is no GST on cost of items (excluding postage) at under $1000. It would seem that they post to Australia to judge by comment below. I bought my rig second hand on IIS - first the mount and later the C6 - and I think for about $1100 all up.

Regards,
Eric
OPT will ship an OTA to Australia, because they classify just the OTA as an "open package". Not sure they are allowed to ship an entire scope, though.
US$429.00 is a good price, and a mount could be bought separately
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Old 31-10-2013, 11:33 AM
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Meant to say my post below views comparable with my 6" Mak rather than newt.
Interested to hear about OPT posting OTAs to Australia but now have become very tempted to buy a C8 from them - trying to resist given that Christmas is rushing up with all of its expenses.

Eric
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  #11  
Old 31-10-2013, 12:12 PM
Neutronstar (T)
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thanks for the feedback, guys. I've read and re-read your posts. It seems that bigger is always better and maybe I should reach for a 6" over the 5". (Sorry for being an oldie and using the old measure).

So perhaps I can consider the Santel or look at the Celestron OTA. More research I feel.

To a large degree I am buying from the perspective of price/size and then going - "lets see what we can see with this" - if you get my drift. But I think that is fine for me as I've not observed much lately and the rest of the family not at all.
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  #12  
Old 31-10-2013, 01:01 PM
casstony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric48 View Post
I see that OPT Telescopes has this setup for sale and with postage would come in at about $1100 and there is no GST on cost of items (excluding postage) at under $1000. Eric
Just to clarify, if an imported item is priced over AU$1000, GST is paid on the total cost, not just the part of the payment above $1000.
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  #13  
Old 31-10-2013, 02:17 PM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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Hi Tim,

I've had a fork mounted C5 (a 5" SCT). I currently have a fork mounted C8. They use the exact same tripod and wedge. The ONLY difference size wise is the case of the C8 is maybe 15% larger. Not much really. Aperture wise, the difference is considerable. You may want to reconsider the 5" and 6" Maks and SCT. You can find very affordable 8" fork mounted SCTs in the classified regularly.

Poita's 10" SCT is a ripper scope - but as he says, it is a BIG scope. I for one would struggle with such an instrument when I'm tired and the time has come to pack up. I had a 9.25" SCT, and it proved too much for me.

But, would you also consider a dob? It is only one unit, rather than the two or three for an SCT/Mak, and footprint wise they are small, even compared to a C5. What they can be is tall as a solid tube, but a collapsible unit is relatively small again.

I've got several dobs, from a table top 4.5" through to a 17.5". The tallest stowed dob I have is my 8". My 17.5" & 10" when in their stowed configuration is half the height of my 8". I've attached pics of these four scopes below to show how large they are stowed. Yes I've made the scopes/mounts of all of these, but it shows what can be done. An off the shelf solid tube 8" dob is only a little taller than my 8" dob. A collapsible 8" is shorter.

One thing about a dob mounted scope, they are easier to handle and use than an eq mounted SCT or Mak. Hell of a lot cheaper too.

Something to consider.

Mental.

The pics below are, my 4.5" dobbie, the 8", the 10" stowed and set up, my 17.5" stowed and set up, and a 6" dob I've made.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (RFT table top dobbie email.JPG)
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Click for full-size image (F4's legs (2).jpg)
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Click for full-size image (187.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (185.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (361.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (368.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (6inch dob mount 001.jpg)
195.2 KB15 views
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  #14  
Old 31-10-2013, 05:05 PM
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Camelopardalis (Dunk)
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The C6 may not be the best 6" scope on earth, but it does pack a lot of scope into a very small package and is easily accommodated on alt az mounts... no EQ needed for one of those babies Alex
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Old 31-10-2013, 11:17 PM
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JRC (John)
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Az if

Im surprised you'd want to try anything more than f6 on an altaz mount even if it is light weight. Particularly a sct with a fairly narrow field. i would find all the tube bumping highly annoying, not to say the relative difficulty of locating an object in the first place.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:29 AM
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It's not hard at all. Even my f/12 scope can easily get true fields of over one degree, depending on choice of eyepiece. I find this ideal for star hopping, after initial homing in with an RDF or similar.

If you use enough magnification to see good detail on planets you'll always be busy pushing the scope along, regardless of focal ratio.

Cheers
Steffen.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:13 AM
Wavytone
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Tim,

With a budget around $1k as a beginner you want bang per buck, and I'd have to agree with the earlier suggestion of a secondhand 10" Meade SCT. It will keep you happy for years before you decide to build/buy something else. That, or a large dobsonian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRC View Post
Im surprised you'd want to try anything more than f6 on an altaz mount even if it is light weight. Particularly a sct with a fairly narrow field. i would find all the tube bumping highly annoying, not to say the relative difficulty of locating an object in the first place.
I use my f/15 Mak exclusively on an altaz mount - and no fancy-shmancy circles or electronics either. What counts IMHO is having a rock-steady mount with no shaking and smooth motion with no stiction. Admittedly the finder is a 102mm f/7 ED refractor...
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:27 PM
Neutronstar (T)
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Could the CG-6 (10lbs weight for the OTA) go on to the CG-4 mount?
Its seems the rail is for the CG-5 Series mount?

If not what would be best bang for buck on a GEM mount?

Thanks
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  #19  
Old 01-11-2013, 02:29 PM
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Larryp (Laurie)
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Quote:
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Could the CG-6 (10lbs weight for the OTA) go on to the CG-4 mount?
Its seems the rail is for the CG-5 Series mount?

Thanks
It could go on either mount, as it is a standard Vixen rail. The more substantial the mount, the better.
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