There can be only 1(?)

[absolut (Rob)]

Hi,

Given unlimited budget I'd get every TV eyepiece and accessory under the sun, however as I haven't won lotto I have a painful choice.

I believe in the "buy quality only" and I've massaged my budget enough to get 1 eye piece before Bretti, however it will be the only one I can buy for a while so it needs to be my goto for most of the night sky.

I do have the 28mm Orion Deep View 2" eyepiece that came with the scope, and I have an acceptable 6mm for planetary, but for anything else inbetween it ends up being a squint into the 28mm and I feel like I miss alot.

So, the ultimate question, what should I get that will work best for your average joe nebula/glob?

I should say that I'm not a fan of the 100deg (Ethos). Although 68 and 82deg look awesome. I'm trying to keep to $500 or so.

Thanks in advance!
Rob

[BEVAN5433 (BEVAN)]

Suggest 17mm type IV NAG.TELEVUE GREAT FOR GENERAL AND DEEP SPACE
BEVAN

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

My suggestion would be a 13mm Ethos but with budget and the fact you don't want 100deg, I would go the 13mm T6 Nag. Gives you mag ranges of 43x, 92x and 200x with your set, change from $500 and it is a really nice EP. It was my go to medium power EP for years in my 12". I alway think with a medium size dob you need an EP in the 90 to 100x range.
Eye relief is a little tight at 12mm so that could be consideration.

Malcolm

[casstony]

I'd suggest a 14mm Delos - top quality, very comfortable to use and not badly priced at the moment. You'll also have money left to buy a narrowband filter such as the DGM Optics NPB filter.

[MattT]

ES 14 100º or Denk 14mm. Had both and kept the ES.
Matt

[absolut (Rob)]

Thanks for the feed back!!

Looks like 13-17mm is the favoured "middle man". While I won't be buying additional eye pieces for a while, I want to make sure I can build a solid working set over time, I'm aiming for a range like: 6, 8, 12, 17, 20/22.
So I guess I should be getting either the 12 or 17mm to start the set. I might have thought that the 12mm would be too much mag for the average sky, but that is more a feeling than backed by any empirical evidence.

By that logic I guess the choice could be narrowed down to getting either the 12mm Delos (better eye relief) or the 17mm Nagler?

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

Normally I am the greatest champion for ES eyepieces on these forums. And I've looked through your scope as you know Rob. If you could only get 1 quality mid range eyepiece. Its either a Pentax 10mm XW, or a Televue Delos 10, 12, or 14mm.
The Pentax line is compromised over 10mm and with production ceased on them you may have trouble putting together a consistent set of eyepieces if it's important to you. You can take a look between my 10XW and Delos14 at our next visit to Katoomba. Appart from the magnification difference I dare anyone to spot the difference in quality of image.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

I will add my own experiences into the mix.

1) Firstly, Televue eyepieces are very good but IMHO they are over-rated dollar for dollar in comparison to other top tier EPs that are also available. Keep in mind the bulk of TV EPs are now made in Taiwan (there are some exceptions). Consequently, Televue in general is a good brand but there are equally good alternatives. So - simply don't go into this thinking a TV EP is the only way to go.

2) The Televue 17mmT4 is a great EP to look through and I had one for many years but it suffers from one significant hick-up - It is probably the most solid and thus heaviest eyepiece I have ever encountered relative to its size. I am not saying it is the heaviest or largest EP around but when you consider the overall size of the EP it is surprisingly weighty for its relative size. Consequently, it became a increasing annoyance to continuously rebalance the scope to use it.

3) The Televue Delos are also excellent EPs but once again are over-rated in terms of price and marketing. I am not saying the Delos are in any capacity bad or inferior eyepieces but if you are seeking an eyepiece which has virtually identical if not better attributes to a Delos then there is an obvious alternative high-end EP that is cheaper and is rapidly approaching collectors status - I am referring to the Pentax XW range which can be purchased cheaper overseas at around $300 including shipping.

4) The Televue Nagler 13mmT6 - basically hard to fault - relatively small, light and easy to use, great optics, one of the few Televue EPs that are still made in Japan. The only catch is the eye-relief which is about 11-12mm.

5) If ER isn't an issue, under $500 and you want 82' fov then Nag 13T6 is the pick of the bunch. However, if you are happy with 68 fov then Pentax XWs cant be beat in terms of price, quality etc.

6) There is one final catch - there are some concerns in the 14 and 20mm XWs when used with "some" (not all) fast scopes. I personally have not encountered these problems - however I mostly use refractors. So you need to be mindful of this contingency and test the EPs in your particular scope. However, even if your scope does have curvature with a 14 or 20XW it isn't the end of the world as the problem is rectified via the use of a Parrcor,

However, IMHO what is probably the best kept secret in the EP world at the moment in terms of a high quality amazingly cheap eyepiece are the Pentax XFs range (the little brother to the XWs) - there are only two of them a 8.5mm and 12mm. You can get them for roughly $160 including shipping from o'seas. They do only provide a 60' fov but if either of these are suitable to you they are hard to fault.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by AG Hybrid

If you could only get 1 quality mid range eyepiece. Its either a Pentax 10mm XW, or a Televue Delos 10, 12, or 14mm.
You can take a look between my 10XW and Delos14 at our next visit to Katoomba. Appart from the magnification difference I dare anyone to spot the difference in quality of image.

I agree with Adrian. If you can't look through his eyepieces before the end of the month grab a Delos as the price increases at the end of August due to a sale expiring. Make sure the focal length you buy produces a magnification that is useable on every observing night according to your conditions (ie. your atmosphere may not always be stable enough to support a 10mm at 125x)

[absolut (Rob)]

Thanks for all the feedback!!
It is making the decision alot easier to make.

Thanks Adrian!, it would be nice to compare the 2 ahead of time, but I found no fault in your advice and the eyepieces you showed me!
I think I will go for either the 12mm or 14mm Delos while the discount is still on!

Thanks!!
Rob

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Sounds like Uncle Al will be laughing all the way to the bank yet again

PS
If we are considering a quality 68 widefield design we have also embarrasingly overlooked the Vixen LVWs which are about $290 right here in Oz

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Hi Rob,

I know you wanted to buy before Bretti, but while there, you can borrow from my humble list :
Name__________ mm _afov
Antares Erfle 2 inch 32 70
TV Panoptic 2 inch 27 68
William Optics SWAN 20 72
TV Nagler Type 5 16 82
TV Nagler Type 6 9 82
TV Radian 12 60
Saxon ED 5.2 55
TV Radian 3 60

(or if you are passing by beforehand, you are welcome to borrow them)
I also have a TV Paracorr that I use with them.

Sorry, the formatting was good in typing, but was lost in the post

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

Originally Posted by Profiler

PS
If we are considering a quality 68 widefield design we have also embarrasingly overlooked the Vixen LVWs which are about $290 right here in Oz

This is actually a good point. But LVW's don't come with green letters or majesty factor! Although reviews indicate that the Pentax/Delos are a bit better.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Profiler

Sounds like Uncle Al will be laughing all the way to the bank yet again

PS
If we are considering a quality 68 widefield design we have also embarrasingly overlooked the Vixen LVWs which are about $290 right here in Oz

Televue make some top notch eyepieces with superior quality control and I hope Uncle Al stays in business so we have the option of buying his world class eyepieces. Pentax and LVW compete well but Pentax QC is not as good (dust reported in eyepieces) and LVW field of view is noticeably smaller than Delos.

While I personally wouldn't buy a new Ethos because of it's high price, "laughing all the way to the bank" is an unfair comment I think.

[Allan]

G'day Rob,

It's funny you say you're not a fan of the 100degree eyepieces. When I bought my Ethos I didn't like it and considered selling it. But everyone said hang in there and see if I get used to it. Well it took me a few sessions, but now my Ethos is my favourite eyepiece and I went and bought another one. So, firstly I would say from my own experience, don't judge the 100degree eyepieces too quickly or you may end up missing out on some of the best views out there.

Al Naglers famous advice is to use the highest power eyepiece that completely frames the object you are observing. This is where the 100 degree eyepieces work really well, because you can use higher power to see more detail, yet still fit the object in the field of view.

I think the Delos are great at high magnification on smaller targets like planets, globs, galaxies, planetary neb, etc because the 72degree FOV frames the objects well. But when you are using mid to low power to view larger objects, I don't think the Delos frames the object in the same way that a wide field eyepiece does.

You definitely should pick up a Delos because they are amazing eyepieces. My only suggestion is you think carefully about which focal length to get.

The 12mm to 14mm focal length you are looking at will be one of the most used eyepieces on a range of objects, and I reckon a wider field of view at that focal length is important. They say you should spend the most money on an eyepiece that's around twice your focal ratio. So go on, give a 13 Ethos a go, they are only going to get more expensive.

Anyway, good luck. See you soon

[Arthur Alchin (Arthur Alchin)]

Robert while we are there you can try out the binocs if you like, I have them with me all the time, with a pair of 7.5 Saxons and a pair of 40mm vixens

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Originally Posted by casstony

Televue make some top notch eyepieces with superior quality control and I hope Uncle Al stays in business so we have the option of buying his world class eyepieces. Pentax and LVW compete well but Pentax QC is not as good (dust reported in eyepieces) and LVW field of view is noticeably smaller than Delos.

While I personally wouldn't buy a new Ethos because of it's high price, "laughing all the way to the bank" is an unfair comment I think.

How remarkable - I heard the same thing about dust in the EPs but ironically it was about the made in Taiwan Delos!

However, given the pride both companies have in their products I suspect neither eyepiece have such issues.

One real difference between the EPs is the use of Lanthanum in the Pentax/Vixen. This is why Pentax are leaving the market because Lanthanum is becoming too expensive and thus it isn't sufficiently profitable for Pentax to continue in the astronomy market. The same fate seems destined for Vixen Lanthanum eyepieces as well. With respect to being 'noticeably smaller' (i.e. between 65 v 68 v 72) I think everyone can judge that for themselves

For my own 2 cents worth I would recommend the Delos 17.3mm and 14mm. The 17 Delos because there is no 17mm in the Pentax range and the 14 if you have concerns about potential problems from a 14mm Pentax in your particular scope. Otherwise, IMO the remainder of the Pentax range are a better choice to the Delos

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Profiler

One real difference between the EPs is the use of Lanthanum in the Pentax/Vixen.

Since we don't know what glass types Televue uses you can't make that claim.
Your premise that Lanthanum necessarily gives special performance is false - Lanthanum is just one group of optical glasses a designer can choose from.
XW's above 10mm perform very differently to Delos in the 10" dob owned by the OP.(curvature, not coma)

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Nonsense - of course I can make this statement - Televue do not use and have never used Lanthanum in their eyepieces.

It is obvious from a marketing perspective that if they "did" use Lanthanum they would be boldly stating this point everywhere in their advertising. This is why they go to great lengths to promote that their refractors as made in the USA and downplay that their eyepieces are mostly (a few still come from Japan) made in Taiwan.

A lack of transparency by Televue in their manufacturing/production processes isn't a positive feature - quite the opposite.

With respect to the optical properties and benefits of Lanthanum when suitably mated - I can't be bothered explaining this point. Suffice to say it costs more for a reason.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Profiler

Nonsense - of course I can make this statement - Televue do not use and have never used Lanthanum in their eyepieces. .

Televue say that they use "high index lanthanum and fluorite type glasses" on their eyepieces web page...... not that it makes any difference what glasses they use so long as the eyepiece performs well.