If I was ever to move, I would probably want to take the observatory with me.
One way is to dismantle it and re-erect it at the other end.
Is it possible to lift it and remove it in one piece?
It is sitting on a 100mm thick reinforced concrete slab.
In the diagram below, the red pier and mass concrete block under the ground are totally isolated from the entire structure, foundations and all. If it was possible to lift it, you could slide it straight up and off the pier.
I thought about digging trenches under the slab and sliding some big H beams under it with lifting points.
Are there companies in Australia that do this? How would they go about it? What would something like this cost to relocate?
Hey Baz, from what I saw of your obs, you would have to remove the dome in one piece by first of all reinforcing the base ring by welding some steel struts across at least n-s and e-w axis to stop it being warped.
the base section would need to be strengthened the same same way at the slab level. The structural steel beams already in place would suffice at the top of the base level.
Lifting slings would need to be used in such a way as to cradle the structure. If you use welded lifting points they would need to be engineer certified before a crane crew would use them (legal & insurance reason)
lifting the base would have to be done the same way with slings that pass under the load.
The crane crews also have spreader bars which engineer passed. These can be passed under the structure and have approved lifting points on them.
Then it is just a simple 4 chain lift onto a low loader.
I hold the necessary permit to hook up such a lift just let me know when !!!
To lift the slab with it would costs about the same as building a new one!
I would think that dismantling and re-erection would be far cheaper.
If you want to lift it you would have to pay for the crane and crew, all the preliminary work to stabilise the structure before the lift, then all the work putting it down at the other end. I couldn't hazard a guess, but my initial thoughts are expensive, really expensive.
A working bee of IISers to help dig and pour the new foundations would be a good idea? If you get enough people you could even dismantle the old structure as well, then reassemble the following weekend.
Pick a weekend and have an impromptu star party as well. You'll need a concrete guy and someone who can tackle the engineering problems as well.
I really, really, REALLY, wouldn't want to dismantle it unless the expense was just too great.
I like Matt's idea of removing it in two pieces - dome then support structure.
Perhaps if I detach the support building from the slab and leave the slab on the ground, it would be a far simpler lift, (and far lighter) therefore far cheaper......
Doubt it would be possible - or rather financially viable.
There are some real restrictions and stringent transportation conditions on the width of a wide load and the height of a tall load like that.
Whats the diameter of the slab ? and height of the structure including the footings to their underside ?
I am recalling its over 5m in diameter and probably over 7m in height (plus whats underneath it)
Cost of preparation - a lot ! - they just can't lift it all by something you put underneath it - it has to be custom engineered, attached and performed by the riggers and certified by a rigging/lifting certification company.
I would guess they would also need to be assured (by an engineer) that it wouldnt come apart or disintegrate while exposed to highway travel either - remember they need to block up the slab underneath in order to support it on the trailer for transport - it might get horribly high.
But I could be making wrong assumptions about the size of your dome
Cost of crane at both ends - probably $5-10,000 assuming it wasnt far - you'd be surprised how big a crane you'd need to lift that - how many cubic metres of concrete went into the slab ?
Its not just the lift weight its the height of the jib needed to get the reach plus the angle of the jib - I would be surprised if it was less than a 50 tonne crane to do that lift.
Cost of low loader transport, escort vehicles, power line crew - $10,000+ (once you go over 4.5m wide or thereabouts its a big deal, total height over about 4m is an even bigger deal. Police permits etc
Site prep, engineers report !! $5,000
New site prep - how do you bed it down so its level and stable.
I'd suggest the straps to secure it during transportation would be damaging to the structure - so it could get ruined in the process.
Add cost of relansdscaping your front yard ! after these heavy vehicles have trampled it and got bogged once or twice !
Driven over your water mains and ripped it out of the ground !
Do you have any power lines in front of your house ?
If you do then they will need to lift over the power lines most likely and probably with dual spreaders - make that a 100 tonne crane !
Sorry, but building a new one or dismantly is probably the better way, but you could easily get someone out to quote - you might be pleasantly surprised.
Talk to Strongmanmike he can probably do it for a slab or two
Seriously it could be moved and reset but the cost would probably pay for a new 200 in telescope.
Dismantle and rebuild is the only practical solution.
Being in the building game I can tell that doing a straight lift with a 25 tonne crane costs around $400 an hour (or more) + dogman + crane driver, and not to mention driving to site and back again. Meaning that the lift item is on bunting and an easy lift. In this case it is not an easy lift. So make that around 1500 per hour plus labour cost and driving to site.
This would take two to three days prep time and only their team would want to prep the site. Lifting the thing with the slab is out of the question. The structure would fall apart from the weight of the slab, not to mention sorting out at the other end. The slap probably weighs 4 tonne, remember a cubic meter of concrete weighs in at 2.7 tonne. So if you got 3 cubic that is 8.1 tonne. Lifting it straight up off the pier into the air is not going to work either. That will not be possible. Something will break.
The two halves idea might work but as Rally pointed out it would get damaged and might not even be possible to transport it. Transport costs are huge and just for police escort in this State it is over $1500 for a day. Freight will set you back at least $5000 if not more.
Do yourself a favour and buy another dome and leave that one there, it will be cheaper by a factor of 3.
I think we have established that you just cannot move!
However, don't feel bad, I have a buyer for my Jindabyne place and will be buying in Canberra soon (too busy skiing to go house hunting at the moment)
If you find you are under utilising the dome you could rent it out by the hour!
I can picture my Tak there already!.
In all seriousness it would be cheapest to dismantle it into transportable components and get a Franna to load it onto a truck.
Franna is a little articulated crane
Last edited by Kunama; 22-06-2013 at 07:26 PM.
Reason: Franna description!
Hey, if mega movers can move a ten story brick building across a town, I doubt a small observatory would present much of a problem. Cost for doing so.......well lets say it would be astronomical. Frankly, it would be considerably cheaper to just pay someone to do the job of dismantling and reassembly for you.
When I bought my Sirius dome second hand, I used a truck with a Hiab crane to move the dome in one piece, along with the six disassembled panels. It took two people about two hours to dismantle, load it on the flat bed truck and about a further hour and a bit to drive it across town and unload it (actually, it took only about 15 minutes to unload and carry it around back). It did take three people though (got the help of my neighbour) to carry the dome around back. Pouring of a three by three metre slab took two people about an hour (if it had to be barrowed around back like mine), with a further hour of finishing work. It took two people a further four hours to reassemble the observatory and drill the holes into the concrete.
Total hours to move, pour concrete and reassemble just over 9 hours.
9 hours x two people at $50 per hour (just an estimate) = $900.
Cost of concrete $800 (fortunately I got the concrete cheap, at $385, due to my brother's contacts).
Cost of two people at $50 per hour to pour concrete = $200
Cost of Hiab truck $50 an hour x 4 hours = $200 (this is only an estimate, as the Hiab I used belonged to family so did not cost me for hire (it's great to have family in the building trade).
So, paying someone to disassemble, move, pour concrete and reassemble would cost approximately $2,100. I would imagine a moving company to move the entire structure in one piece would cost around 8-10k and that would be a conservative estimate.
Much cheaper and easier to just pay someone to do it. Fortunately, moving and rebuilding my observatory only cost me about $400 for the concrete and anchor bolts. All labour and transport supplied free.
Last edited by Stardrifter_WA; 22-06-2013 at 10:59 PM.
Yeah, I wouldn't try moving it as-is. You'll have all sorts of stability issues. It wasn't designed to be movable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA
Hey, if mega movers can move a ten story brick building across a town, I doubt a small observatory would present much of a problem.
Yes. It's quite clear that it is POSSIBLE, with the right engineering in the lift, but as Troy said, the stability issuse arising from the fact that it wasn't designed to be movable would make the exercise impractical, not to mention the astronomical cost when building this thing has only cost me 10K all up over the last three years.
If I ever move I know this - I've poured so much of my heart and soul into this build, if it doesn't come with me to continue it's mission, I may consider burning it to the ground before I let it fall into the wrong hands!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!
Amazing what an angle grinder and a gas-axe can do Baz, one cut across the dome and then cut the base section into quarters, then a ringsaw to cut the pier at ground level while supported by a Franna crane ................
A nice little outdoor setting onto the slab ...........
If I ever move I know this - I've poured so much of my heart and soul into this build, if it doesn't come with me to continue it's mission, I may consider burning it to the ground before I let it fall into the wrong hands!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!
Frankly, it would be considerably cheaper to just pay someone to do the job of dismantling and reassembly for you.
