Advice - Biting Midges

[erick (Eric)]

Where to post this - OK, let's start in this Forum.

Some of you will recall that I was mauled by biting midges (sandflies) at the last March Snake Valley camp. I'm pretty sure that's what they were - the reaction I had fitted the description for those most sensitive/reactive to their bites. I never saw, nor felt them at the time.

Little buggers got me well before dusk, before I had put on my repellent. Never felt them bite, but, by the next day - yeeeeouch! Took several weeks to heal (and consumed a few bottles of Stingoes for the first few days.)

So I don't want to go through that again. I have been reading up and it seems that my standard mozzie repellent, Aerogard, should do the trick.

But I just discovered something interesting. Aerogard does a "Tropical Strength" and an "Odourless". I have read the roll-on bottles carefully. Active ingredient in "Tropical Strength" is Diethyl Toluamide (DEET). Active ingredient in "Odourless" is Picaridin. Huh?

OK, what I have read suggests either should be effective, but if one of you has experience or are a biting insect expert researcher I'd like to have your suggestions. (Avoid the camp, or stay indoors after dark are not the suggestions I want to hear, mind you.)

Thanks
Eric

[gary]

Hi Eric,

The repellents containing DEET provide some of the most effective protection.
Brands in Australia that have DEET as an active ingredient include Tropical
Strength Aerogard (not the normal Aerogard) and RID.

The normal Aerogard does not contain DEET, only the Tropical Strength
brand.

For years whenever I travel somewhere where there is a risk of mosquito borne
disease such as malaria or dengue fever, I always pack and use RID. Likewise,
I have found it very effective in parts of the world where you get sandflies, such
as Milford Sound. The reason I use RID is because it contains DEET and
because it has been often recommended to me by traveler's vaccination
centers and by GP's when I am about to travel overseas. So I always carry
it in a medical kit in my pack alongside malarial prophylaxis.

When using products that contain DEET, one has to be careful not to let it
come in contact with some plastics and rubbers. Some plastics on cameras
or notebook keycaps, some sythetic rubbers on lens barrels or eyepieces, etc. can be
damaged if you touch them with skin that has repellent containing DEET. So you
need to wipe your fingertips and around your eye where it can come in contact
with, say, an eyepiece.

You want to avoid getting repellents with DEET into your eyes and some find that if
you apply it to the face near the eyes it may sting or irritate them.

Picaridin is a relatively new repellent that some find causes less irritation than
DEET when applied to the face but some manufacturers claim provides similar
protection to DEET.

In any case, repellents containing DEET or Picaridin are commonly recommended
to be used in environments where insects can pose a serious health risk and not
just a minor annoyance.

[Meanderer]

Hi Eric,
Your description seems to be midge for mine. I have experienced them in the middle of the day, they don't mind what time it is. The Insane desire to scratch and scratch I do for a week.
Tropical strength certainly, cover up were comfortably possible and keep applying to exposed areas. I have heard Bushmans repellent to be good but don't have personal experience.
Some friends that I have camped out with, are convinced that the potency of their sting differs from one area to another or the season or maybe their food source at the time could be a factor. Am certain potency does differ, have been told that the reason you don't feel them bite is because they piss on you. Why or what purpose? have been told by several people in different parts of Australia.
Have forgotten a recipe for concoction that gives some relief after being pissed on, it involved Baby oil, Detol and cant remember. It will come back to me and will let you know. Hope this to be of some help.
Just seen Gary's reply and RID is good.

Regards

[casstony]

For flying insects I wear long sleeves, long trousers and a hat and spray the clothing with Rid - I never put that stuff on my skin.

For leeches or other crawling crawling critters a ring of Rid sprayed (or rolled) around my boots does the trick.

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

Originally Posted by gary

Hi Eric,

The repellents containing DEET provide some of the most effective protection.
Brands in Australia that have DEET as an active ingredient include Tropical
Strength Aerogard (not the normal Aerogard) and RID.

The normal Aerogard does not contain DEET, only the Tropical Strength
brand.

For years whenever I travel somewhere where there is a risk of mosquito borne
disease such as malaria or dengue fever, I always pack and use RID. Likewise,
I have found it very effective in parts of the world where you get sandflies, such
as Milford Sound. The reason I use RID is because it contains DEET and
because it has been often recommended to me by traveler's vaccination
centers and by GP's when I am about to travel overseas. So I always carry
it in a medical kit in my pack alongside malarial prophylaxis.

When using products that contain DEET, one has to be careful not to let it
come in contact with some plastics and rubbers. Some plastics on cameras
or notebook keycaps, some sythetic rubbers on lens barrels or eyepieces, etc. can be
damaged if you touch them with skin that has repellent containing DEET. So you
need to wipe your fingertips and around your eye where it can come in contact
with, say, an eyepiece.

You want to avoid getting repellents with DEET into your eyes and some find that if
you apply it to the face near the eyes it may sting or irritate them.

Picaridin is a relatively new repellent that some find causes less irritation than
DEET when applied to the face but some manufacturers claim provides similar
protection to DEET.

In any case, repellents containing DEET or Picaridin are commonly recommended
to be used in environments where insects can pose a serious health risk and not
just a minor annoyance.

Gary has put together a pretty good summary.

DEET (at high percentages) works well as does Picardin...I actually think that Picardin has a worse smell but less irritation for me.

A third option (new) that I don't know is available in Australia yet is an active ingredient called metafluthrin...in the USA it is sold as part of a personal emanating device (battery powered fan) that clips on your belt or is worn "Dick Tracy" style in a wrist watch device (Japan only). Works well for about 8 hours or so and then needs to be refilled. It is odorless and colorless and works well if you are not moving around a lot. It creates a low level concentration zone of insecticide around you (think Pigpen from Peanuts Comic strips) and works well in situations where you are stable but remember that wind and lots of movement don't allow enough to build up to be repellent.

Cheers,

[xstream (John)]

If you don't mind smelling like a bottle of Detol a blend of 50% Detol & 50% Baby Oil is a very effective alternative to any of the commercial insect repellents.
Personally I use Bushmans as I find it lasts the longest, it comes in varying strengths but I find the the strongest 80% Deet formula (the 80% only comes in a gel) to be the most effective in repelling Midge/Sandflies.

As Gary has mentioned do not get near any plastic or rubber. I have seen it melt a plastic tumbler.

[Meanderer]

Good Points

"If you don't mind smelling like a bottle of Detol a blend of 50% Detol & 50% Baby Oil is a very effective alternative to any of the commercial insect repellents."

Would a equal amount of vinegar enhance this as a deterrent or more so as a relief?
I was certain of a third ingredient to the recipe we used, but cannot be sure of which use, maybe both?.
Odour would not come into the equation for me, as long as it worked.

Cheers

[mangrovedutch (Dutch)]

I swear by Bushmans 100%. When I was fishing in Moreton Bay (Qld), I wouldn't leave without it. As soon as the wind/breeze stopped they were all over me. A good application of Bushmans to all your exposed parts including your head, saw them away (Yep, they will get you through your hair and leave your scalp extremely itchy).
I suggest you cover up well,including your head and spray your clothing and exposed body parts. A word of warning however - continual use over long periods can be detrimental to your health (ie. Don't use it everyday for weeks on end). I found most other repellants useless against these nasty little critters with continual full bladders.

Regards, Dutch

[casstony]

It's worth noting that 487 Victorians were diagnosed with either Ross River Virus or Barmah Forest Virus last year, both potentially debilitating diseases causing varying degrees of fever, rash, joint pain and lethargy. With all the flooding this year could be worse.

It's not only Northern Australians who need to avoid mosquito bites.

[Rob_K]

Eric, this is very worrying. We all rely on you at Snake Valley to be the sacrificial lamb - if the midges aren't biting you, then they'll move on to the rest of us. So please, forget this nonsense about repellents.

Cheers -

[desler]

Bushmans 80% deet in tube, available from most camping stores does the trick for me.

Army insect repellant in the old days used to work well and was close to 100% deet. I was always told the higher the Deet concentration the better.

Darren

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

Eric, this is very worrying. We all rely on you at Snake Valley to be the sacrificial lamb - if the midges aren't biting you, then they'll move on to the rest of us. So please, forget this nonsense about repellents.

Cheers -

Nope! You are on your own mate! But, never fear, Pete is going to be there!

Sounds like some experimentation with Bushman's this camp. Just don't let me handle your eyepieces!

(Been trying to find photos of the damage done? Wonder what I did with them and the thread seems to have disappeared into archives?)

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by erick

Been trying to find photos of the damage done? Wonder what I did with them and the thread seems to have disappeared into archives?

Good.
Don't want to turn people off from booking into Camp

[xstream (John)]

I'm not sure George. I suppose the only way to find out would be to give it a try, I doubt it would hurt you the worst I could see happening is the little blighter's could have a feast on you.

I only know the recipe as being 50/50.

Originally Posted by Meanderer

Good Points

"If you don't mind smelling like a bottle of Detol a blend of 50% Detol & 50% Baby Oil is a very effective alternative to any of the commercial insect repellents."

Would a equal amount of vinegar enhance this as a deterrent or more so as a relief?
I was certain of a third ingredient to the recipe we used, but cannot be sure of which use, maybe both?.
Odour would not come into the equation for me, as long as it worked.

Cheers

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

Good.
Don't want to turn people off from booking into Camp

Woops! I promise guys, they only attack Pete and me!

(It's the mozzies that are completely indiscriminate! )

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by erick

Woops! I promise guys, they only attack Pete and me!

(It's the mozzies that are completely indiscriminate! )

I suppose forewarned is forearmed

[coldspace]

We camp and boat all through Morton bay and yes the Bushmans is excellent and getting rid of midgies, but my wife found it no good on young kids, and unless you keep putiing it on they will eventually get you, she did heaps of research and bought pure lavender oil based cream pump pack, from the body shop,its expensive like $40 bucks but lasts for ages and works better than the deet based items and we have tested it out in the thick of it and not one bite, I was sceptical till we started using it.

[Jeffkop (Jeff)]

I used to work out felling trees once upon a time ... the midgies were that thick that if you looked across at your mate you could see a thick black aura about 4 inchs off his body.
We could work all day midgie free if we took 2 car sickness tablets in the morning (Avil brand) ... they just get hit by an odour they dont like I think. Its simple and 100% effective ... but does absolutley nothing for mozzies. Hope this helps

[cybereye (Mario)]

I received an email that said that spraying listerine around the area that you are in and on yourself would keep mozzies away. I've yet to test this out and have no idea if it would work with midges, if it would work at all!! But it's worth a try!!

Mario

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by Meanderer

Good Points

"If you don't mind smelling like a bottle of Detol a blend of 50% Detol & 50% Baby Oil is a very effective alternative to any of the commercial insect repellents."

Would a equal amount of vinegar enhance this as a deterrent or more so as a relief?
I was certain of a third ingredient to the recipe we used, but cannot be sure of which use, maybe both?.
Odour would not come into the equation for me, as long as it worked.

Cheers

When I heard that old recipe it was more oil and less detol (1:4?) but also 1 part metho was recommended. I used (years ago) to find it as effective as Rid and better than Aerogard. A chemist in Broome used to sell 'Special Tropical Strength' repellant to the tourists and that was this recipe. I reckon he was getting $20-30 per litre for the stuff - a nice little earner!