Supernova 2008in in M61

[RobF (Rob)]

I've just been digging back through my Messier pics deciding if I'll reimage any this year. While looking at M61 thinking "that's a pretty decent galaxy", I stumbled across web references to this supernova. Low and behold, when I looked more closed at my snaps from 2009, its quite clearly visible I believe!

Just goes to show, the supernova guys like Peter and Ron that are always suggesting we check new images are right - amateur images can show them.


7x3mins taken from Bris with IDAS LPS/MPCC on 450D through 8" Newt, 22/3/09


More info on this SN:
http://astrosurf.com/re/sn2008in_20090222.jpg
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ghlight=2008in
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?i...JJfmtQOooNzlBQ

[astroron (Ron)]

Yes Rob, it does pay to look at all your images for transient objects
Over the years I have been on iceinspace I have seen at least half a dozen images put up by imagers who have not realized they have a supernova in their pictures.
A little while ago a comet went through which was missed by all the automated surveys and should have been seen by amateurs, like you, one day someone will look back at their images and notice the comet
Cheers

[Jeffkop (Jeff)]

I was going to ask the question ... What has that tiny white dot got any different than any of the other 50 or so tuniy white dots in that image ... then I read Rons post and its the fact that that tiny white dot is THERE ... thats correct right?? ... So this must be a consuming task comparing all your images over time looking for little white dots that are not in another picture ... this must take ages to do ... or is there a PC automation that can do this ????

[RobF (Rob)]

In my case I just happened to stumble on a nova image when googling M61 Jeff. I believe the automated supernova hunters use a lot of software automation to capture a lot of galaxies each night, then additional software to set up "blinks" of their image versus reference images you can obtain online.

I'll have to leave to someone who understands properly to explain better than that.....

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

Nice one Rob.

[astroron (Ron)]

You will find that the supernovae are visible in images long after they have faded from view visually in even the largest amateur telescopes so Keep checking your images

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by Jeffkop

.. So this must be a consuming task comparing all your images over time looking for little white dots that are not in another picture ... this must take ages to do ... or is there a PC automation that can do this ????

Hi Jeff,
There is no real easy way around Supernova Searching for the amateur astronomer, you can however throw lots of $ at it. Technology has helped tremendously but the time factor (imaging and then checking) is still the issue.

The basic ingredients - Numbers and having good reference images to start with, preferably ones you have taken with the same equipment, comparing apples with apples. Using the Digitised Sky Survey Images (Red and Infrared) to check suspects against is also a must.

In my case I check each image "live" on the screen to previously captured images on another screen, while it slows my numbers down I am hoping that this will buy me time over those who use say Maxim Dls SN Blink programme to later check or the more well equipped ie CHASE (Chilean Automated Supernova Search) who use image subtraction.

You also have POSS (Puckett Observatory Supernova Search) who have multiple contributors to check the many captured images.

So really there is no substitute for (visual or ccd) - Numbers, numbers, numbers.
Many who do automated capture searches throughout the night rarely check their images on the go (they are usually asleep) so at some stage (next day - asap) they will blink several hundred images, can take hours.

In Stu Parkers case this has proved very productive, but has also missed a few (it can get very eye straining). In my case I am limited to say 150 images per night (I usually call it quits at midnight) and close the observatory. But I have checked those images and am now very confident I haven't missed any. I do now blink the galaxies that have lots of (foreground) stars around them (ie NGC4945). However I did miss one last July (wasn't blinking then) in another galaxy that had quite a few foreground stars around it, I largely put that down to tiredness.

My discovery rate is about 1 per 6000 images to date, so I would be happy with 1-2 discoveries per year from here on. I think POSS were at about 1 in 8,000 images and Stu comes in at close to 1 (I think) around 1500 images. CHASE have heaps of discoveries, they are semi-professional but I will be more than surprised if it were better than 1 in 6000.

Oh PS, Rob, why not send your fine image to Dave Bishop for inclusion in the SN archives. See link below.
http://www.rochesterastronomy.org/snimages/

Hope that helps.

Peter

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by PeterM

Hi Jeff,
There is no real easy way around Supernova Searching for the amateur astronomer, you can however throw lots of $ at it. Technology has helped tremendously but the time factor (imaging and then checking) is still the issue.

The basic ingredient - having good reference images to start with, preferably ones you have taken with the same equipment, comparing apples with apples. Using the Digitised Sky Survey Images (Red and Infrared) to check suspects against is also a must.

In my case I check each image "live" on the screen to previously captured images on another screen, in the hope that this will buy me time over those who use say Maxim Dls SN Blink programme to later check or the more well equipped ie CHASE (Chilean Automated Supernova Search) who use image subtraction.

You also have POSS (Puckett Observatory Supernova Search) who have multiple contributors to check the many captured images.

So this is what it comes down to and there is no substitute (visual or ccd) - Numbers, numbers, numbers.
Many who do automated capture searches throughout the night rarely check their images on the go (they are usually asleep) so at some stage (next day - asap) they will blink several hundred images, can take hours.

In Stu Parkers case this has proved very productive, but has also missed a few (it can get very eye straining). In my case I am limited to say 150 images per night (I usually call it quits at midnight) and close the observatory. But I have checked those images and am now very confident I haven't missed any. I do now blink the galaxies that have lots of (foreground) stars around them (ie NGC4945). However I did miss one last July (wasn't blinking then) in another galaxy that had quite a few foreground stars around it, I largely put that down to tiredness.

My discovery rate is about 1 per 6000 images to date, so I would be happy with 1-2 discoveries per year from here on. I think POSS were at about 1 in 8,000 images and Stu comes in at close to 1 (I think) around 1500 images. CHASE have heaps of discoveries, they are semi-professional but I will be more than surprised if it were better than 1 in 6000.

Oh PS, why not send your fine image to Dave Bishop for inclusion in the SN archives. See link below.
http://www.rochesterastronomy.org/snimages/

Hope that helps.

Peter

Hi Peter I thought it best left to you to explain what it takes, as you could explain it much better than me
Cheers

[PeterM]

Well Ron that is very nice of you indeed, thank you. Credit where it is due and Ron you are one of the most prolific visual observers I have ever met, won't try to turn you to the dark current as I think many have tried. You know my number for that night you find a visual SN.

As Ron noted earlier his sage advice has long been to check your images. Many imagers here regularly take images of the bigger brighter galaxies so there is every possibility that a bit of luck will come your way. It has happened before and a nice SN in big bright galaxy will almost certainly grace all the Astro mags, so keep a looking!

By the way visual observers (and imagers) should not discount the LMC and SMC here is where Astronomical fame awaits.

PeterM.

[Hagar (Doug)]

Nice on Rob. Some interesting discussion here. I just shoot my images and never think to compare with previous or filed images.

[RobF (Rob)]

Originally Posted by PeterM

Oh PS, Rob, why not send your fine image to Dave Bishop for inclusion in the SN archives. See link below.
http://www.rochesterastronomy.org/snimages/

Hope that helps.

Peter

Thanks for the detailed info on how its done Peter. I'm still in awe of anyone working hard night after night to do "real science" observations, whether imaging or visual.

I'll have to check out your link - I hadn't seriously considered anyone would be interested in an old news SN, but might be educational to see what info they're after, and more than happy to contribute even if only a little morsel of info.

Regards,
Rob

[telecasterguru (Frank)]

I agree that you never know what you will find until you compare and contrast.

Frank