Animal farm...

Peter Ward · #1 30-03-2010, 11:11 AM

The hollow men in our department of foreign affairs, have yet again shown their useless and flaccid natures with the burning of Stern Hu in China. This being yet another example of our Government being totally inept in applying clandestine pressure to obtain a “fair go” for Australian citizens who find themselves in dire circumstances on foreign shores.

The “official” spin (China and here) regarding the Hu case has been atrocious. The billions of dollars in iron ore contracts and taxation royalties simply made him an expendable pawn.

This follows closely after Nigel Brennan was held captive in Somalia (finally freed via a private action). Again with no positive action by DFAT.

I suspect the upshot is, don’t expect any help, such as that given to French or Italian nationals .... They at least, get their people out......sadly, something our lot have not even slightest notion of achieving....as geez, mate it cost money.

It seems I am not alone. A very well written piece in today's SMH

http://www.smh.com.au/business/hu-ju...ml?autostart=1

makes it clear individual rights in Australia are long gone...

TrevorW · #2 30-03-2010, 12:40 PM

Yes I tend to agree I wouldn't feel safe venturing to any non western country these days

Our Govt whether labour or liberal has an atrocious record for helping Australians caught in dire straights OS

Ric · #3 30-03-2010, 04:19 PM

As much as I would love to see more of the world I think it's just safer to see what Australia has to offer and there is certainly plenty to see and do.

richardda1st (Richard) · #4 30-03-2010, 05:02 PM

Peter, you're such a "Anethum graveolens".

cfranks (Charles) · #5 30-03-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardda1st

Peter, you're such a "Anethum graveolens".

PCH (Paul) · #6 30-03-2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardda1st

Peter, you're such a "Anethum graveolens".

Very witty ! No comment on me agreeing or otherwise - I'm just saying your comment is cleverly put

Peter Ward · #7 30-03-2010, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardda1st

Peter, you're such a "Anethum graveolens".

Oh heaven sakes, if you are going to be boorish and call someone a Dill, you're usually the one who ends up looking obtuse....or do you work for DFAT?...in which case it all makes sense.

Ian Verrender's piece in the SMH (..if you haven't yet done so, you really should read it....) covered all of my sentiments, and then some. I'm simply thankful it's not a member of my family about to have their life wasted needlessly in a Chinese prison.

Wavytone · #8 30-03-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

individual rights in Australia are long gone...

Wrong country. Aus law does not apply to aussies in foreign countries, though many wish that it did...

When in Rome, do as the Romans do, or suffer Roman law (Wavy's corollary).

TrevorW · #9 30-03-2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wavytone

Wrong country. Aus law does not apply to aussies in foreign countries, though many wish that it did...

When in Rome, do as the Romans do, or suffer Roman law (Wavy's corollary).

Historically it is common practice to offer and accept bribes in China when doing business

Hypocritical if you ask me

I wonder how he would have been treated if he'd been a westerner born in this country and the media backlash that would follow

Do you really think he deserves 10 years we don't even jail murderers for that long

bobson (Bob) · #10 30-03-2010, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Wrong country. Aus law does not apply to aussies in foreign countries, though many wish that it did...

When in Rome, do as the Romans do, or suffer Roman law (Wavy's corollary).

I agree with this.

GrahamL · #11 30-03-2010, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Do you really think he deserves 10 years

Yes .. very much so if he is indeed guilty of what he admited doing .

TrevorW · #12 30-03-2010, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobson

I agree with this.

Bob and others please do your research bribery etc is rampant in China and considered the norm when doing business

please read these articles

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5405438.stm

2005 article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082101068.html

you spout when in Rome do as the Romans do and thats exactly what he was doing the farce is that the Chinese are livid that they had to pay more for the iron ore than they could have and don't like it becuase someone beat them at their own game

2007 article

http://www.theage.com.au/news/busine...459786035.html

Peter Ward · #13 30-03-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorW

you spout when in Rome do as the Romans do and thats exactly what he was doing....

indeed.. it takes a while for the penny to drop for some....

mithrandir (Andrew) · #14 31-03-2010, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightstalker

Yes .. very much so if he is indeed guilty of what he admited doing .

Bribery is the way business is done throughout a large part of the world. In most countries it's private. In China and North Korea, ...

The only time it gets you prosecuted, or killed, is when someone decides they didn't get value for the bribe paid.

multiweb (Marc) · #15 31-03-2010, 09:55 AM

Very dirty tactics indeed. It happened last year on a much smaller scale with the company my wife works for. Some containers exported to China were held and weren't paid for. Some of the sales staff did the trip to China to meet and sort out any issues face to face. They were detained until the company paid to bail them out. The police was involved but looked the other way. Corruption is rampant.

The Stern Hu case IMO sends a clear message that it's OK to do this. The worst is yet to come now they know they can get away with it. Money talks.

casstony · #16 31-03-2010, 11:13 AM

I read a comment recently saying that the west opened up free trade with China and donated most of our manufacturing jobs, and in return we were supposed to get democracy in China; I wonder if we'll ever see them live up to their part of the bargain.

space oddity · #17 31-03-2010, 12:24 PM

We in the western world are so naive. Trying to play the game with western free market principles being distorted by what is effectively slave labour in China. To add insult to injury, they deliberately undervalue their currency to make themselves more competitive. They also show no regard for intellectual property, further making themselves more competitive(do not have to pay for R&D). To add further insult to injury, the stuff they sell is rubbish, so we wind up buying more over time to do the same job, getting further in to debt.
Please explain, if nothing is made in Australia, almost everything imported because our local industries have been undercut and government rules and regulations make us even less competitive, are we to ever pay back our foreign debt or ever become self reliant? How are we going to become competitive if eventually we must have a cost structure cheaper than slave labour ? We really are living in a fool,s paradise at present.
Getting back to the Hu Stern issue,sounds like the Chinese are embarrassed that someone got the better of them and/or they are after bigger bribes. Everone knows that bribery is the norm in China. So, if bribery ceases, how are they going to do business? Perhaps western business should NEVER have started dealing with China. It has had a very destabilising effect on the western world-massive debt, loss of jobs,theft of what the west was best at(innovation.) The only "plus" is a short term provision of cheap junk, raising our(borrowed)standard of living.The jobs being sent to China do not raise the standards of living over there(except Communist Party officials), they just make them work harder-so much for "Peoples" Republic of China.
Beware, the day of reckoning approacheth.

GrampianStars (Rob) · #18 31-03-2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

..................................

It seems I am not alone. A very well written piece in today's SMH
http://www.smh.com.au/business/hu-ju...ml?autostart=1
makes it clear individual rights in Australia are long gone...

"But where Australia once stood for the rights of the individual, it now seems happy to offer a sacrifice for the good of the collective."

Nicely put but there are NO individual rights in Australia never have been!

Oh! "there goes another flock of pigs."

mental4astro (Alexander) · #19 31-03-2010, 02:06 PM

My 2c worth on our weak Governments, the importation of beef from overseas. What the...?

The only country to export beef to Oz would be the U.S.A., which has the most subsidised agricultural sector of just about any other country. How else would they be anywhere competitive to locally produced beef?

And all we hear on the media is "the beef IS FREE OF 'MADCOW DESIESE'" from our polies.

Are we this stupid in Australia not to see this?

Some Free Trade Agreement we signed up to.

We import previously Aussie made bikkies from China!? Foreign ownership of food is the best scam done to us. We have to pay a foriegn company to feed OURSELVES, with our own food!

And nobody seems to give a stuff!

What else would be expected when our nationals get into trouble overseas, guilty or otherwise.

Nesti (Mark) · #20 31-03-2010, 02:53 PM

Ummm...the Rio/ Chinalco failure followed up by the attempted Rio/BHP deal was literally a slap in the face for the Chinese. You've got to recognise that in China it's all about 'face' and business is done differently than in the west.

The Chinese are BIG on relationships and hate being misled and/or double-crossed. They negotiate hard but a-deals'-a-deal...we MUST let-go of the American-style business mindset...remember how the US has dealt with Aust wheat and wool trade over the past 30 years?...or has that conveniently slipped our minds?

Sure, I bet there are a thousand Stern Hu's out there taking paper bags under the table in China (here too), because that how business has always been done in the orient, even if the law of the land differs. Hu is merely a patsy for initiating a change in the political international trades of the future with China, and China just gave Rio Tinto a slap over the back of the head...in public!

Consider this action by China as a 'shot across the bow for all future western trade'.

The Chinese would have known all of this information for years, but chose to sit on it until it benefited them to make it public and act upon it. The loss of face would have been the trigger for the initiation of some type of action. Now who has egg on its' face? Not China. They played their cards (international politics) and guess what, we got Pwnd!

I bet the whispers around Canberra are around the lines of 'don't touch this coz China's got the goods on us and they're just waiting to slap the evidence down on the table like Perry Mason'.

There was a book published years ago, I think it was called 'Black Face White Heart' (?)...I would suggest all who trade and deal with China read it and learn.

I personally like the Chinese...they work hard, detest laziness and to be perfectly honest, are the best neighbors in my street.

I've got nothing to fear from them...as I'm not a crook.

Just my 17.8 cents worth; tax adjusted.