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Old 25-11-2005, 11:52 PM
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astroron (Ron)
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How can they do Astronomy

How can they do Astronomy with this stuff in the sky?http://www.esa.int/esaEO/SEM8GGULWFE_index_1.html
Click on the red "back to article" in the top left hand corner to read the story
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Old 26-11-2005, 12:19 AM
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jjjnettie (Jeanette)
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It makes me very grateful for our relatively pristine skies.
How you going Ron? I hope to come up to your place sometime soon.
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Old 26-11-2005, 06:39 AM
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hi ron - i'm assuming contrails are caused by air-traffic (my dial ups a bit slow this morning and crashed out before I got the full story). I recall after all the flights were grounded in the US for a few days after sep11 that people were amazed at this big wide blue thing that appeared above stretching between the horizons...

cheers,
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Old 26-11-2005, 11:26 AM
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Robert, I watched a doco on that topic on SBS.
Didn't they also say that, after recording the highest UV and temp. readings during that time, that the smog was keeping the greenhouse effect at bay?
The smog eats the ozone, but the smog also stops us from feeling most of the effects from ozone depletion.
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Old 26-11-2005, 11:09 PM
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astroron (Ron)
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Hi Bob, contrails are caused by high flying aircraft and what I think they are saying is that the contrails are making artificial clouds which trap heat in and as such increase global warming. Ron
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Old 27-11-2005, 09:51 PM
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Argonavis (William)
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I saw it on the SBS

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjnettie
Robert, I watched a doco on that topic on SBS.
Didn't they also say that, after recording the highest UV and temp. readings during that time, that the smog was keeping the greenhouse effect at bay?
The smog eats the ozone, but the smog also stops us from feeling most of the effects from ozone depletion.

I understand that photochemical smog is the product of the action of sunlight on motor vehicle exhausts to produce (principally) nitrous oxide. The effects of industrial output are also part of this problem, which is almost totally confined to large cities. From a distance, this is observed as a brown haze over a cityscape, as you look towards Brisbane from, say, the Blackbutt ranges. The effect is more noticable when there is a temperature inversion and no wind, and the smog just hangs around and builds up. The main impact is on human health. I am not sure that it keeps anything at bay, but I have heard that it does increase the reflection of solar radiation into space, so that greenhouse heating effect is less (at least for cities). As it only happens in big cities, the impact on the overall greenhouse effect would be miniscule. This does not make a lot of sense to me, as an ugly brown smudge would, I would think, absorb more solar radiation and increase the temperature of cities so that they are hotter than they otherwise would be. Whatever.

I do recall (correctly I hope) that some part of the chemical reaction process in the creation of photochemical smog does involve the conversion of ozone into nitrous oxide. As this happens in the lowest level of our atmosphere, it is totally different to ozone depletion, which occurs very high in our atmosphere. The reasons for the depletion of the ozone layer, which is very high in our atmosphere and protects us from UV radiation, is well understood. It is due to freons and various other nasty chemicals produced by our industrial civilisation which find their way high into the atmosphere where they eat ozone. I think someone got a Nobel for explaining the chemistry of this.
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Old 27-11-2005, 10:19 PM
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what does this have to do with astronomy, you ask?

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast09feb_1.htm
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Old 27-11-2005, 10:29 PM
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Hi jjjnettie thanks, that's right it was an SBS doco where I saw that stuff on contrails

Hi Ron, what Argonavis says below has also pricked my memory a bit that the issue reported in that particular doco - i think - wasn't global warming rather the opposite where these contrails and various other airborne wastes were reflecting incident sunlight and reducing the amount of evaporation significantly at different locations around the globe, in some places by as much as 20-30% in the last 50 years - with consequences for rainfall etc etc..

cheers,
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Old 27-11-2005, 11:21 PM
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No matter what the affect on global warming or cooling, it will be pretty hard to do Astronomy through that stuff, thats why the Yanks want to come down here to observe our reasonably clear skies which we hope to be kept that way, but it is getting harder to find dark skies closer than a hundred kms from a major city
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Old 28-11-2005, 10:31 AM
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ving (David)
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indeed!
glad its not 'ere!
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Old 29-11-2005, 04:57 PM
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Yes Robert T I remember seeing that doco on sbs a while ago and it was actually quite alarming on how the water evaporation has been slowing over such a short time as you said it was very interesting!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_T
Hi jjjnettie thanks, that's right it was an SBS doco where I saw that stuff on contrails

Hi Ron, what Argonavis says below has also pricked my memory a bit that the issue reported in that particular doco - i think - wasn't global warming rather the opposite where these contrails and various other airborne wastes were reflecting incident sunlight and reducing the amount of evaporation significantly at different locations around the globe, in some places by as much as 20-30% in the last 50 years - with consequences for rainfall etc etc..

cheers,
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