Light Gets In Your Eyes

[mick pinner]

l know there was a thread on this subject a while ago but l just approached the local council about a street light that shines between the next door neighbours and my place, not a great problem unless you happen to be viewing in that direction,a baffle on the back of the light l think will fix the problem, anyhow rang the council and was told to ring my electricity supplier, after being told to press 1 for this and 3 for that l finally got through to the works department who informed me that they do not modify the lights anymore and that the council uses private contractors.
so l rang the council back and got the little man in charge of new lighting and was told that l would have to place an official request to council which would be followed by an occupational health and safety study to determine the effects of the light being directed away from my house if it passes this royal commission then it will go back to council to see if the expense can be met in this years budget, the battle with beauracracy has begun.

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

welcome to the world of red tape mick. I sounds just like my local council.

[Astroman (Andrew Wall)]

be cheaper to buy a paint ball gun and hire someone to shoot at the light. Still good luck if you decide to go ahead with it.

[asimov (John)]

Red tape....try a red brick cut in half so it's lighter to throw lol! In all seriousness though, I have the same problem with 2 lights. Not sure what to do about them yet.

[rumples riot]

Mick try offering to pay for the hood. Bet it gets done this financial year.

[matt]

Rug up Mick

I hear it gets pretty cold climbing Everest

[Starkler (Geoff)]

I started going this road a while back and after explaining my position to the man in charge of public lighting, I could tell he was seeing me as some kind of fringe loon.
He lost all interest in listening after hearing that its not one, but four lights affecting me.
The next step was to put my request in writing, I gave up at that thinking there was little hope considering the non sympathetic attitude I was sensing.

Good luck.

[anthony2302749]

I had luck with my council, they had placed two new street lights in (not counting the one they left only meters from the new rounder about) to light up a round about they were constucting near my home. The light from these lights trespassed on to my property and in to the main bed room.

I contacted my council explaining the situation, they asked me to put my request in writing which I did. Six months later the two new street lights were changed to full-cut-off fixture as per my spectification. I tried my luck to see if I could get other old street lights near my home changed as well. The reply from the council was if you foot the bill (about $3000 I think) we will do it.

Point to note, if you plan to make a request to your council to make any changes to street lights make sure you have done your research and you can back up your request.

Here is a sample of my letter to my council


As outlined in our phone conversation dated ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[img] /><st1:date Year=[/img]the 31<SUP>st</SUP> July 2002</st1:date>, I am writing in regards to the installation of the two new streetlights on the corners of
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As an Amateur Astronomer I have a passion for the night sky and enjoy the many wonders that it provides. I have invested a substantial amount of money on equipment to peruse this passion. For many years I have tolerated the obtrusive nature of light pollution cause by nearby streetlights, until the recent installation of the above mentioned lights. The placements of these lights has dramatically decreased my viewing pleasure of an already light polluted night sky and due to excessive light spill from these newly installed street lights my ability to carryout any scientific or photographic work as been dramatically affected. The light situated on the corner of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[img] /><st1:date Year=[/img]the 31<SUP>st</SUP> July 2002</st1:date>, I am writing in regards to the installation of the two new streetlights on the corners of </font>


<st1:Street><st1:address>Log St</st1:address></st1:Street> and <st1:Street><st1:address>Wales Ave</st1:address></st1:Street> floods light directly into the main bedroom making sleep sometimes difficult. </FONT></FONT></P>

</P>

To support my case for the removal of or modification of the above mention light, including those visible from of my property I have enclosed a copy of the following publication “The Provision of Quality Outdoor lighting in the Act”. I also would like to draw your attention to the Australian Standard AS4282 on "The Control of the Obtrusive Effects of Outdoor Lighting" issued in October 1997 which provides guidelines for planning authorities to ameliorate the effects of light pollution in the vicinity of observatories. </P>

[h0ughy (David)]

Oh dear,

are you guys upsetting us poor old Council workers again!

Council is obliged to follow up any, and i mean "any" public request made in writing or verbally to a council representative. they must do so within a given timeframe (different councils different target goals for the month).

Now it should be noted here that the owner of the offending device is responsible to its care and effectiveness. First and foremost Councils are responsible to the public using the footway. then you may have other statutory authorities who may own the infrastructure in question. it may not be the council but another local authority, (mainroad dept). Now if the light is tresspassing into the property it can do this within limits, its called spill lighting. if this spill lighting is of high enough lumens and is affecting the health and well being of the resident then the Authority is obliged to rectify the situation through a better lighting installation, relocation, removal and alteration to the residents well being (CUt offs installed).

But Council staff who really don't give a rats, they don't live there, they are not sympathetic to Astronomy, or any other local loony. You will find the lighting bill for local councils of a moderate size will be a few million dollars per year, thats just the energy bill. the price of safer driving and walking at night??? I think not, but they do.

Follow anthony's example and write a letter and follow up on it, but arm yourself with AS4282 (remember this is only a guide, they don't have to follow it) the Council's energy budget, any support from neighbours (maybe?) and if you really do want to do something give a presentation and associated factual costs and budgetary savings to infrastructure replacement programme over a 5-10year period and savings in energy costs and infrastructure improvements, and most of all, less light pollution.

I personally rejected 22 lighting requests for people wanting something lit up because they thought is was safer. One was a hospital! More lights does not necessarily make it safer!!! Stick within the standards, and guides and look for practical solutions for remediation to your problem. get that Council bludger onside with you after all they will be the one making the decision, not the elected body (they are only advised)

[mick pinner]

run for Prime Minister Dave, l'll vote for you, if you fix my street light. l'll follow your advise.

[gaa_ian (Ian)]

Good advice from Houghty there ....
If you all remember "Yes Minister", polies come and go, the public service is forever !
You will also find that the street lighting standards (AS1158) have just changed this year to ensure less "Glare" factor, this means less spill lighting.
I am currently engaged in a street lighting design project & "Full cut off" is the order of the day!
Better for motorists, residents & of course the night sky.
What we really need is a "Australian Dark Sky Association" to take up this on a national level.

[xstream (John)]

Dave, you want to come and join our council so we get a favourable response?

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by xstream

Dave, you want to come and join our council so we get a favourable response?

only if they pay me more than I am getting at the moment, so thats 2 peanuts instead of one

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by gaa_ian

Good advice from Houghty there ....
If you all remember "Yes Minister", polies come and go, the public service is forever !
You will also find that the street lighting standards (AS1158) have just changed this year to ensure less "Glare" factor, this means less spill lighting.
I am currently engaged in a street lighting design project & "Full cut off" is the order of the day!
Better for motorists, residents & of course the night sky.
What we really need is a "Australian Dark Sky Association" to take up this on a national level.

maybe a thread on the association and the procedures to follow to bug the local authorites might be in order!

with Risk Evaluations and Costs being first and foremost for Council now a days, showing them a nice way to graduially save a feww million dollars by providing a better infrastructure is the way to go! Nothing lasts forever

[fringe_dweller]

one of the local power companies ran adds recently for a few months in the newspaper - full page add of a picture of a lonesome little refractor on a alt/az mount pointing out a window sitting in someones front room (daytime shot) it was near the beach, and there was a dirty great huge streetlight out the front in the direction the telescope was pointing - and it just said "we're excited about electricity even if your not" EDIT: or something along those lines? I saw that add on at least 4 or 5 different occasions - cheeky buggers

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by fringe_dweller

one of the local power companies ran adds recently for a few months in the newspaper - full page add of a picture of a lonesome little refractor on a alt/az mount pointing out a window sitting in someones front room (daytime shot) it was near the beach, and there was a dirty great huge streetlight out the front in the direction the telescope was pointing - and it just said "we're excited about electricity even if your not" EDIT: or something along those lines? I saw that add on at least 4 or 5 different occasions - cheeky buggers

It is now your duty in life to find this ad, scan it so that we may ridicule the provider and others into submission

[RAJAH235]

To all concerned with lighting pollution.
SOLIS & IDA are already on the case. They have been for years. I have been in contact with Mr Reg Wilson from the IDA fairly regularly over the past few years.
He owns 'Lighting Analysis & Design' in Sydney & is the Australian rep for the IDA.
He too designs luminaires & regularly attends meetings with the 'BIG' boys. (& I do mean BIG)!
This subject is an ongoing problem to a lot more than us, lowly astronomers.
So, if you want the current situation details, I suggest you contact Reg.
02-94887078.
Ken Pettersen, from SOLIS, is also doing his/their best.
The main problem is, COST. The councils don't look to the future, just now!
We can, but hope.
Regards, Laurie.
Mick, I suggest you offer to pay for the shade. L.

[Starkler (Geoff)]

A shade may not cost much, but how much for the cherrypicker to get the workman up there?

[fringe_dweller]

Originally Posted by h0ughy

It is now your duty in life to find this ad, scan it so that we may ridicule the provider and others into submission

hehe will do Houghy - have to wait for them to use it again - didnt get to keep any anyone else got a copy?