Terms and conditions

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

I just decided to read the TOC a bit more closely and noticed this nasty piece of work:

Please note, that because of the threaded conversation-like nature of discussion boards, we reserve the right to refuse a users request for a mass delete of their own posts or a deletion of their account. This includes images and attachments. That is to say, at the time that a member posts any contribution on the forum, they immediately waive all claims of copyright over that work for all time in relation to such contributions appearing on the IceinSpace forum, but not otherwise.

Mike - I do not believe that you can legally do this. A contract requires a signature. Please show me where you have my signature for this. Copyright is copyright and must be adhered to, based on the wishes of the owner of the said item.

Of course, I expect Mike (or one of the other mods) to remove this thread or ban me (or both) for daring to bring this up. So be it. After my recent temporary ban, IIS has left a bitter taste in my mouth, and it is no longer a place that I enjoy or find useful.

I am contemplating whether to force the legal removal of my posted images and written content from IIS. I believe that I have rights, and that IIS, or no other has the right to interfere with those rights.

There, said and done.

Dave

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

Dave, the rationale behind this is quite possibly not because they don't want to, but because it may not be feasible.

It's not doubt possible to remove the text from someones post's and delete their attachments, but it would be impractical to unthread them and remove quotes from other people's replies. Things like the way-back machine and Google probably have the posts cached so they won't be gone, irrespective of what action is taken by the IIS maintainers.

We all live and learn. The first thing we need to learn online is to not be offensive, and not take offense without good cause. For instance it's very easy to say something you think is humorous, but the target of the humour might find it offensive.

Read what you write at least twice before pressing "submit". I know I do, and I still manage sometimes to insert my foot in my mouth or get misinterpreted.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Contract can be verbal or written, once you click buttons on this forum you must accept the terms and conditions of the site. It is very simple and legally binding.

Don't post any images if you have a problem with the TOC. Do that on any site really.

The terms most probably are set because each user that posts a response to a discussion has as much rights to have their discussion to remain.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

I beg to differ. Facebook MUST remove everything from an individuals account if they are asked to under privacy laws for starters. Anyways, we'll see who wins this one.

Malcolm - there is much debate to online "contracts" and whether they are legal or not. Many are arguing that the lack of a signature, or even a witness, which is a MUST for any other form of contract denotes that the party has not consented to the terms. What you are implying is that I have no rights because the forum owners have to retain the rights of others. That is absolutely ridiculous. Oh, and verbal contracts aren't worth a grain of salt. Even with witnesses.

Anyways, hasta la vista, I'm outta here.

Dave

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

I don't read it as ominous or ill intentioned but more one of "no take backs"...

Once a post is made (or pictured posted) it is in the "ether"...it could become impossible for IIS (or anyone) to find and delete each and every image and/or comment in a thread or copies of the thread "on the net". While I don't purport to be an expert, I think of it this way, once you say something it can't be unsaid...or at least may not be able to be. I don't think that is any different than any site I participate.

I read it more as fair warning...IIS won't (or can't) enforce copyright so if you are concerned don't post.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

As experienced by Mike recently, setting the forum not to copy images would be the best way which is possible.

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

As experienced by Mike recently, setting the forum not to copy images would be the best way which is possible.

That isn't completely true. With javascript editing plugins you could remove the code that blocks the right-click save. You can take a screen shot of the window.

[Lumen Miner (Mitchell)]

Ummmm, ok, what went down?
Sorry to hear you have had enough. You have been a great help to me.

David, just delete your images then.

[iceman (Mike)]

David

Everyone is presented with the Terms and Conditions when they register with IceInSpace, and by clicking "I agree" you enter into that binding agreement and are bound by the terms.

Originally Posted by mswhin63

Contract can be verbal or written, once you click buttons on this forum you must accept the terms and conditions of the site. It is very simple and legally binding.

Don't post any images if you have a problem with the TOC. Do that on any site really.

The terms most probably are set because each user that posts a response to a discussion has as much rights to have their discussion to remain.

Absolutely correct.

The T&C's are in place to protect IceInSpace and its owners and moderators, and to protect the members where appropriate. They are certainly not in place to take advantage of members or to use their images in our promotions against their wishes.

By posting your images, YOU published your work. To ask for them to be removed now, is like publishing and selling a book to someone, and then demanding the book back because you don't want them to have your work any more.

We do not, as a general rule, bulk delete posts when a member or ex-member requests it. This would break the integrity of the threads in question and reduce the value of the information.

Originally Posted by mithrandir

We all live and learn. The first thing we need to learn online is to not be offensive, and not take offense without good cause. For instance it's very easy to say something you think is humorous, but the target of the humour might find it offensive.

Read what you write at least twice before pressing "submit". I know I do, and I still manage sometimes to insert my foot in my mouth or get misinterpreted.

Sage advice right there - I wish everyone followed it.

David, you know why you were banned (for a week) - due to a series of incredibly offensive and inappropriate posts that I never want to see repeated.

A 1 week ban was getting off lightly.

If you choose not to visit again, then good luck in your future. You are very talented at macro photography but I will not allow a repeat of the content of your posts in 'General Chat'.