This is An Expensive hobby, whats your secret to success?

[netwolf]

Just wondering after being in this hobby for a few years now. I have spent what to me is a small fortune on this hobby. But i cant even begin to imaging how i could possibly afford some of the gear that is now available to Amateurs. But there are people out there that seem to be able to do it.

Seriously What is the secret to success?

Regards
Fahim

[Kal (Andrew)]

When you see me rock up at the IIS astrocamp in a Porsche Cayenne I'll let you know

[netwolf]

Kal, you got an AP what do you need a Porsche for?

[Starkler (Geoff)]

My secret to having disposable income is to have no debts and no other mouths to feed. We all choose our own priorities in life.

[Ian Robinson]

Well , no mortgage - paid it out in 2000 , and very little debt. Just wife and me now - kid is independent and living and working interstate. That makes a huge difference.

And I choose what I want carefully , never buy anything without doing a lot of homework first , never on impulse, where possible only buy quality and keep it as simple as possible.

I'd like more aperture one day , maybe a 14" fast newt or a 16" fast newt (light materials in tube and mirror cell) , the Atlux will just about handle that OK if I engineer the OTA properly, but am prepared to wait.

Beyond that on aperture , not interested in a dob so until I am in a position to purchase a suitably heavy GEM to handle a bigger fast Newt , that will have to wait.

I'd rather a have good boat to go deep sea fishing and tinny for fishing when away from home in and maybe a 4x4 campertrailor before I go to a bigger telescope . Got a taste of the outback greynomad thing in 2000 (did a 3 month tour W to E from Hedland - Kunanarra - Darwin - Mt Isa - Normanton - Cairns - and then down west side of the Divide and the New England HW to home , and we were in no rush), and want to do a lot more of that kind of thing with my wife , too expensive staying in motels and cabins, and having to pitch a tent every night is too much hassle, and maybe my sister and her hubby while we are young and healthy enough not to have any health obstacles.

[xelasnave]

Here is a lot of advice that you can only give when you get old........


Put aside 10% of what goes thru your hands.

Rich folk pay themselves first... poor folk pay everyone else and never have anything left for themselves...so when you make money make sure you get yours first eg 10% otherwise why are you working to keep everyone else happy...

Still I dont do that in spite of telling everyone that is the key but I hold onto more than 10% these days.

Patience is my key and minimising overhead.

It amusses me the folk who will say...

"Oh I will get that it is only $5 ... without any appreciation that there are many items they approach the same way...

$5 a week is $250 a year so instead of saying it is only $5 or, $20 ($1000 a year) whatever just remember small and seemingly insignificant amounts add up ...dont regaurd small outgoings as if those sum sums dont count but know that they do...

Keep a note book and record everything you spend and review it and ask why did I buy that...

Next dont envy others who can afford stuff and wish wish wish...save save save instead...

I gave up drinking in 2000 and always say to my brother in law who thinks I waste money on astro gear..."well my hobby costs less than going to the pub and now I have some things to show that is the case".

Dont be sucked in that you need stuff... do you need it or have you fallen victim to the boys in marketing.

I wanted a boat again so I helped my mate buy one...he cant sail but I can.. a wonderful relationship as we need each other.

AND be content with what you have and use it... so many folk aspire to get something but when they get it the shine wears off fast and they are after the next toy...

It happens to me... I have a 12 inch but think would not a 16 inch be better... well of course but a 12 inch is way past anything I thought I would have only 6 years ago...so remember where you came from and enjoy your achievements.

I see my situation like a small country... I make sure I dont import more than I export.

Do not use credit... for the car and house maybe but for small stuff realise if you can not afford it now why would adding a hefty interest make it more affordable...realise that with a small savings back stop you can get rid of the credit card.

Cash and patience provides opportunity ... credit and the wanties takes you nowhere...

alex





I have saved for some time to simply replace my lap top and get a new camera yet many think I have money to burn...not so.

[iceman (Mike)]

Buy second hand, buy budget equipment, do the most with what you have.

There's really no secret if you don't have the disposable income to spend.

Set your expectations lower

[sheeny (Al)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Here is a lot of advice that you can only give when you get old........


Put aside 10% of what goes thru your hands.

Rich folk pay themselves first... poor folk pay everyone else and never have anything left for themselves...so when you make money make sure you get yours first eg 10% otherwise why are you working to keep everyone else happy...

Still I dont do that in spite of telling everyone that is the key but I hold onto more than 10% these days.

Patience is my key and minimising overhead.

It amusses me the folk who will say...

"Oh I will get that it is only $5 ... without any appreciation that there are many items they approach the same way...

$5 a week is $250 a year so instead of saying it is only $5 or, $20 ($1000 a year) whatever just remember small and seemingly insignificant amounts add up ...dont regaurd small outgoings as if those sum sums dont count but know that they do...

Keep a note book and record everything you spend and review it and ask why did I buy that...

Next dont envy others who can afford stuff and wish wish wish...save save save instead...

I gave up drinking in 2000 and always say to my brother in law who thinks I waste money on astro gear..."well my hobby costs less than going to the pub and now I have some things to show that is the case".

Dont be sucked in that you need stuff... do you need it or have you fallen victim to the boys in marketing.

I wanted a boat again so I helped my mate buy one...he cant sail but I can.. a wonderful relationship as we need each other.

AND be content with what you have and use it... so many folk aspire to get something but when they get it the shine wears off fast and they are after the next toy...

It happens to me... I have a 12 inch but think would not a 16 inch be better... well of course but a 12 inch is way past anything I thought I would have only 6 years ago...so remember where you came from and enjoy your achievements.

I see my situation like a small country... I make sure I dont import more than I export.

Do not use credit... for the car and house maybe but for small stuff realise if you can not afford it now why would adding a hefty interest make it more affordable...realise that with a small savings back stop you can get rid of the credit card.

Cash and patience provides opportunity ... credit and the wanties takes you nowhere...

alex





I have saved for some time to simply replace my lap top and get a new camera yet many think I have money to burn...not so.

Some good advice there, Alex!

Don't fall for marketing... and don't try to keep up with (or outperform) the Jones's...

Originally Posted by iceman

Buy second hand, buy budget equipment, do the most with what you have.

There's really no secret if you don't have the disposable income to spend.

Set your expectations lower

Yep, I'm in this boat too.

Al.

[netwolf]

Alex excellent advise. I have learned the value in tracking your expenses, I keep a spreadsheet and update it for every transaction i do. It helps me rationalize what I can set aside for general savings, and Astro savings.

There is of course a line where you should step of from saving and buy something to get started with. This mean setting realistic goals based on what you can currently afford and what you can save for the future. Otherwise you save and save and get no where.

Mike i completely agree with you on buying used equipment. Majority of my kit is used equipment.

[Kal (Andrew)]

Advice:

* Avoid credit. I have a credit card but I pay it off in full every month to avoid interest rate charges. Too many people seem happy to give banks 18%+ interest.

* Limit personal spending on entertainment. I used to be happy to go out every single weekend and spend $100-$200. Add that up and you are spending away $5K-$10K every year!

* Don't gamble. You might win when you gamble, but when you factor in the losses I can guarantee that you will usually end off with a negative valued "winning"

* Don't smoke. Apart from giving you cancer & emphysema, a box of cancer sticks costs about $10 nowdays doesn't it?

Having said that I don't own a house, and given the choice between a relatively cheap APO refractor and a quarter million dollar house (which seems entry level nodays) I'd go the house.

[Smirnoff]

Originally Posted by Kal

Advice:

* Don't smoke. Apart from giving you cancer & emphysema, a box of cancer sticks costs about $10 nowdays doesn't it?

More. A typical box of 30 or 40 ciggies is about $15-17.

Other small things, like turning off the light when you leave the room, using heating and AC at a lower setting, flushing the can with a bucket of water you collected in the shower/bath etc will all eventually save you quite a bit.

[bojan]

Originally Posted by netwolf

Just wondering after being in this hobby for a few years now. I have spent what to me is a small fortune on this hobby. But i cant even begin to imaging how i could possibly afford some of the gear that is now available to Amateurs. But there are people out there that seem to be able to do it.

Seriously What is the secret to success?

Regards
Fahim

Fahim, what is your definition of success?
Is it (hopeless) competition with guys who have heaps of money, or is it enjoying the beauties of starry skies and knowledge about universe (which is bott free.. apart from price for the trip to dark place, if you live in the city).
Once you answer that question to yourself, then you will know if you are successful or not.
Clear skies,
Bojan

[avandonk]

Fahim back in about 1977 I built an 8" Newt and for that time was 'big'. I then built a GEM out of car axles and bits of steel. Ken has it now. I spent many nights doing astrophotography with hypered film and manual guiding. If I got one good image a night things were going well.

It is all about priorities and what you want to achieve. What I have now is light years away from thirty years ago.

Rather than look at the cost it is better to evaluate any purchase on real need. In other words, do I really need it and will I use it regularly.

I have managed to get by on 'cheaper' equipment by modifying it. It is not a competition who has the biggest and best. It is about using and enjoying what you have. I have also passed on a lot of bits that I no longer used or needed to others.

I am retired and can indulge far more than someone who is still has more pressing priorities.

Bang for buck the equipment today is far better value than five years ago let alone thirty years ago.

Success does not happen overnight it takes time and dedication and constant learning. Money is only one limit.

Bert

[jungle11 (Greg)]

Originally Posted by bojan

Fahim, what is your definition of success?
Is it (hopeless) competition with guys who have heaps of money, or is it enjoying the beauties of starry skies and knowledge about universe (which is bott free.. apart from price for the trip to dark place, if you live in the city).
Once you answer that question to yourself, then you will know if you are successful or not.
Clear skies,
Bojan

Well said.

If money was no object to me, I'd proberly bey that gear. (who wouldn't?) But in the end, it will always be me looking through the eyepiece, or processing a picture to my taste. No amount of money can buy wonder.

cheers to that

[koputai (Jason)]

Alex's post was excellent.

1. Read a GOOD book on the subject, one you can understand and put into practice. I've read lots, and by far the best is 'Making Money Made Simple' by Noel Whittaker. He's Australian, and his info is all very relevant and easy to digest.
http://www.noelwhittaker.com.au/ie/books.html

2. Don't use credit. Get a debit card instead, and have it running from a separate account to the one your pay goes into. You can only spend what transfer into that account.

3. Marry well. No, seriously! I know lots of guys who are on the bones of their arse because their wives spend beyond their hubby's means. Big mum-mobile silver or black combat vehicle, designer label kidswear, coffee and cake with their friends every second day. Best to marry someone not so high maintenance, preferably with financial smarts of their own.

Most of all, enjoy life. If you can't afford something, either do something about it, or forget about it, don't waste your life wishing and being dissapointed.

Cheers,
Jason.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by netwolf

Alex excellent advise. I have learned the value in tracking your expenses, I keep a spreadsheet and update it for every transaction i do. It helps me rationalize what I can set aside for general savings, and Astro savings.

There is of course a line where you should step of from saving and buy something to get started with. This mean setting realistic goals based on what you can currently afford and what you can save for the future. Otherwise you save and save and get no where.

Mike i completely agree with you on buying used equipment. Majority of my kit is used equipment.

keeping all your reciepts and records can very lucrative at tax time too for those who have jobs and can come up with a good plausible reason to claim some of those goodies and expenses as kinda or directly work related.
If the taxman audits you, no problem - you've got all the reciepts on hand ... I was audited in 1997 and actually discovered I was paying TOO MUCH TAX - the ATD did me a big favour by auditing me !!!

[Ric]

Hi Fahim, I have a little money box safe and each fortnight I put something in it, usually between $5 and $50, then I forget about the money when there is something I need or would like to have I see how much is in there and either buy it or keep saving.

It's always good to pick your time to buy, the dollar is down so prices are up. I can happily wait until the prices come down to what I feel is reasonable. The way I see it if you have done without something for 18 months another 12 won't hurt.

Also be happy with what you have, sure an Sbig would be nice but my little DSI II fulfills my needs and achieves good results.

Cheers

[AlexN]

I make lists.. it sounds funny.. But I do HEAPS of research, and make a list of what I want. Once I have my list, I figure out the total cost of everything, work out what I need to save a week and do my best to achieve it...

If the total is insurmountable, I will prioritize the list, and then break it into more attainable amounts, and save towards "stages" of the overall purchase...

The problem comes when you find things that you NEEEED!! (want) that are not on the list... Then things get tricky and expensive.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by koputai

Alex's post was excellent.

1. Read a GOOD book on the subject, one you can understand and put into practice. I've read lots, and by far the best is 'Making Money Made Simple' by Noel Whittaker. He's Australian, and his info is all very relevant and easy to digest.
http://www.noelwhittaker.com.au/ie/books.html

2. Don't use credit. Get a debit card instead, and have it running from a separate account to the one your pay goes into. You can only spend what transfer into that account.

3. Marry well. No, seriously! I know lots of guys who are on the bones of their arse because their wives spend beyond their hubby's means. Big mum-mobile silver or black combat vehicle, designer label kidswear, coffee and cake with their friends every second day. Best to marry someone not so high maintenance, preferably with financial smarts of their own.

Most of all, enjoy life. If you can't afford something, either do something about it, or forget about it, don't waste your life wishing and being dissapointed.

Cheers,
Jason.

Yep Debit cards are brilliant - you can't spend what you don't have !!!

I have one - use it lots , I rearly carry much cash , just gold coins and maybe $20 , costs you nothing to use a Visa Debit Card, steer clear of Efpos , the banks charge like a wounded bull for each transaction ! I object to be being charged for the privilage of spending MY OWN MONEY !!!

Also have two Mastercards - strickly for use in emergencies only and I always pay a lot more than minimum monthly payment on these.

When I had a home mortgage - I paid fortnightly and always when working more than the prorataed mortgage repayment. Even if you only pay the required amount , but do it prorataed fornightly , or weekly if you are paid weekly, it makes a big difference over a 20-25 year mortgage and can help you pay it out years early.
13 x 4 weeks in a year , so fornightly repayment put you a month in front each year !!

Same with secured loans I had with the Credit Union (car, home renovations, small loan to help set up my mail order business at the time).

If the missus works - live off your income , and save her's . If she or you become unemployed or disabled , then you wont be up the creek financially where as if suddenly you or the missus loose a job and you have been stupidly living it up on a double income and now require both incomes to get by then you are in very deep brown smelly stuff (and you'll get no sympathy from me).

If you get paid overtime - save it or divert it pay the loans and mortgage quicker - treat the extra $ from overtime as a bonus and don't fall into the trap of living to a means that can only be sustained by working overtime (and lots of it) - it can and often does - dry up very quickly .

If the car is still roadworthy and reliable - keep it - it's stupid to replace the car ever 3 or 4 years simply to always have that shiny new looking car or cars. My Pajero (bought it brand new in 1992) is still fine - see no compelling reason to replace (even if I were in the position to afford an new Pajero or Prado or Land Cruiser to replace it).

I don't smoke or drink (a glass of wine very occasionally with a meal only) or use drugs or gamble (very rarely will I go to a club or a pub and go anywhere near a pokey, and I'm not the least bit interested in betting on the ggs or the dogs - not even on MCD) - so I am already miles in front financially.

Do you really need the monster plasma TV ? Do you really need a nuge mansion on a tinny block of land (and the monster mortgage that you took out to buy it) ? Most my collegues bought or built big flash houses in 1995-1998 (when Onesteel announce the closure !!!) , I could have too and could afford it at the time , dambed glad I resisted the temptation to upgrade from my modest 3 bedroom home to flash 4 or 5 bedroom BV & tile home in a posh suburb - I would have been well and truely up the proverbial in 2000 , also glad I offload my BHP shares (employee share plan before 1999 too , would have been stuck a big debt to Onesteel when the steelworks closed if I hand not).

All that change when you buy stuff (a bottle of coke here , some chips there , some bait (bag of frozen prawns or pillies) - first goes straight into the car ashtray (I don't smoke) , then after a couple of months I empty it out into an empty icecream container - which I've stashed , after 6 or 12 months I sort the coins and count it, and take it the building society to bank, usually enough to pay for a lot of the Xmas and New Years goodies and yummies (can be a couple hundred $ after 12 months , amazing how it builds up , beats wareing holes in my pockets with a load of silver and gold coins !!!

A phone call jar (was 20c a call then) A fart jar !! A swear jar !! A "naughty" jar ! (a $ a pop) , heck we've had them all (all at once at one stage - paid for our trip to Cairns after our first anniversary !!! They were big jars.
Might reintroduce the jars !!! and see what happens .

More important - if you must go to the shops - leave the wollet and credit cards at home and never ever buy on impulse. If you see a sales person heading your way and you didn't ask for help , walk straight back out that door.

[h0ughy (David)]

Houghy’s top tips :

1 You have a currency called WIFEDOLLARS, with that currency the actual truth is somewhat discounted to the actual costs, under the laws of supply and want (not necessarily need) you buy when the AUD is high, and buy when it is low. CC is your friend whenever you are in advance….. Sell, why the heck for – you worked hard to get it, don’t sell it……

2 Getting the latest stuff does tend to help the 2nd hand marketplace…………….

3 Getting the 2nd hand stuff does tend to drive you to the retail therapy shopping online guides………..

4 At least spend this weeks disposable income on some Astro goody……the more clutter the more ability to hide those really big purchases in the clutter……………

5 Get onto a first name basis with your suppliers--- they might even toss in a free Astro calendar at those end of year purchases………HINT GUYS AT B___EL .

6 Astro micro climates need to be nurtured and cultivated regularly……

7 Spend as much as you can – when your dead you cant appreciate it……

8 Don’t go into debt buying Astro gear……. Sell the kids first?

9 remember wifedollars can be your friend – but never leave the receipts at home

10 Don’t be a scrooge tightwad and have an opinion about all things living, dead, cheap or dear without having practical knowledge and owned the gear to talk about it – so no BS about the gear unless you have owned it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

11 go back to rule 1