Iceman, Significance of 12th November 1944!

[wraithe]

I just read your blog and noticed your into WW1 and WW2 history..

I enjoy history and do a bit of reading and talking to friends about the wars, and the one vessel from WW2 that i have always had an interest in is the "Tirpitz", sunk in Norway on the 12th of November 1944. 21 years to the day, before I was born...

I would loved to have seen this mighty ship in all its glory, but alas the british did drop a few little bombs(yep, tongue in cheek) and sink the mighty warrior...

What also has amazed me is the amount of bombs dropped on Darwin, yet people think it was just a few and the Japanese left...from what I can gather, there where more dropped there than at Pearl Harbour...


The amount of military history that is either forgotten or rewritten, is absolutely incredible...The way the winners of battles have twisted things or just look at one side without the feeling of the other, is something I have noticed as i have got older and more accepting...

I am ex-army, and my immediate superior was a war history buff...I got to learn a lot about the past and notice now how humans do the same over and over again...

I hope you enjoy the history you research and can pass it on to others...There are a lot of ex-ADF personal doing the same but if there where more people looking back and learning, then we may just gain enough for the future...

Catch up again soon...Take care and relax...

Cheers, K...

[iceman (Mike)]

Thanks for the story, Kathy. Very interesting.

It's also a significant day in the battle of Tobruk - on the 13th November 1942, the British Army recaptured Tobruk after the battle of El Alamein.

The book "Tobruk" by Peter Fitzsimons is an absolutely fabulous read if you're interested. The "Rats of Tobruk" movie isn't bad either although their Aussie accents aren't the best

[acropolite (Phil)]

War history is interesting, and particularly the people who served.

I have had the peasure of knowing and working with a few, one thing they all had in common was a reluctance to talk about the experience, a shame really as they had much to tell.

If you're at all interested in War history download the Podcasts of the ABC series Australians at war, Australians under Nippon.
It's narrated by Tim Bowden and is mostly stories told by the ex POW's themselves, I found it very moving, particularly the parts when they told of their release and subsequent return to Australia.

[wraithe]

A lot of the issues with someone who has been in those situations, is the pain that is caused by discussing what happened and talking to people that dont understand a lot about it...
Another issue is trying to talk to non-mil people...I find that discussions with a few friends that have served in those situations are different when someone is around that is non-mil to when we are alone chatting...

My sense of humour is not taken right by a lot of people but my friends from the mil have the same humour, even I get a little put off by some things said but i never get offended or take offence, its just there way...Especially if you have served in the services with the guys that served during conflict...My time in was the mid 80's when there where still members of the forces that had served during the 60-70's...Good people and they trained you with an understanding of what could happen...

Its very sad that its hard for them to open up and explain, but with what they are carrying on there shoulders and the treatment our returned service members recieved in the old days, you can understand... If I have a friend open up, I dont repeat what is said or dismiss or even say i know, I just listen(and sometimes even cry inside, it can be very hard for someone to tell you the horrors they experienced, and very rare)...

I find that a lot of the new generations are very detached about what war is, they have this concept of hero worship and glory... It will be sad the day they have to find out its all about loss and death, and no glory or heroes...

My grandfather fought in WW1(France-British Artillery regiment) and then served locally in WW2(29th Garrison- Perth)...My uncle served in WW2 but i dont know where, only just discovered he was in the Army not the Navy as I previously thought...

[I.C.D (Ian)]

In my family I had a Great uncle on my mother side fight in France in WW 1 got wounded twice my the time they got the letter saying that he was wounded the first time he had been back to France and on his back to England wounded for the second time he was then retune to Australia all he ever said about the war were the fun thing that happen
My Father served in WW2 (was under age at the time 16 ) with S.R.D (Z Special ) at the end of the war all document were destroyed the Government of the day did not want the people of Australia to know what these people got up to ,the old man copped a lot of flack for years after the war form the mates who he join up with to what he did in the war it was not until the late 60’ that he was allowed to tell them and the only information that we do know today are from those people who have written books about their mission in south east Asia .I also have three uncle who served as well two were in the RAAF and the other was with the 9 Division in Tobruk .I served with A,R.A (N.S)From 1971-1973 though I never got the chance to go to Vietnam I would have gone if I had been ask too


Ian C
2797977

[Nightshift]

You talk about the bombs in Darwin, that was only the tip of the iceburg, Australia was surronded by the Japs in the 40's.

It wasnt until I spent 18 months travelling around australia in 1997-98 that I discovered the extent of our involvement in the war, particularly in North Western Australia. Some points of interest are;

Roebuck bay in Broome was bombed and a total of 15 airboats were destroyed in the harbour, loss of life was 80 people, the japs flew long range Zero's to get to them dropping their fuel tanks about 100 Nm north of Broome to make the distance, the Japs knew the catalina's were there becuase they flew reconnasance (sp) missions all over the coast of Australia with no one to stop them. Many of the 80 were dutch civilians fleeing the japanese from the East indies. Read here for more info (very interesting) http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/collecti...nts/Broome.pdf

I have stood at the wrecks and seen them first hand.

Another interesting fact, does anyone know who and where the first shot was fired in anger at the beginning of WWII? I will leave this a little while to see if any one knows.

Cheers, Dennis.

[I.C.D (Ian)]

Albany (W.A) was the first place that the dawn service started ,also it was one of the big U.S.A submarine bases in WW2 this base supplied food and ammo to the Philippines also they brought people back to Australia from the Philippnes they also attacted jap shipping around Indonesis island and Singapore

Ian C

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by Nightshift

Another interesting fact, does anyone know who and where the first shot was fired in anger at the beginning of WWII? I will leave this a little while to see if any one knows.

Cheers, Dennis.

Hi,

Well, from Point Nepean, Victoria, according to one source, but not at the Axis! It was fired across the bows of a poor little coastal steamer which was very much Aussie! However this incident was 2 days late for the honour.

It is generally agreed the first shot was fired by the old dreadnought SMS Schleswig-Holstein at Danzig, Sept 1 1939, against a Polish barracks. This ship then took no further part in the war until sunk in 1945.

Cheers

[GrahamL]

http://www.anzacsite.gov.au/2visitin...sh_nusret.html

I always come back to this one little ship that changed our nations
identity... the gun emplacements that deffended the narrows were
pretty much beaten up and out of shells .. but through this one action
probably not even intentional .. was able to get the british fleet to falter..withdraw and ..embark on the land invasion of the gallipolli peninsula ...

[Galactic G (Greg)]

Originally Posted by GeoffW1

Hi,
It is generally agreed the first shot was fired by the old dreadnought SMS Schleswig-Holstein at Danzig, Sept 1 1939, against a Polish barracks. This ship then took no further part in the war until sunk in 1945.

Well I would say that the invasion of Poland was the start of the war in the European Theatre. However, I think that the first shots in WWII were actually shot on the night of the 7 July 1937 by Chinese soldiers as Japan made maneuvers without informing Chinese authorities. The 'Marco Polo Bridge Incident' is the incident that most historians see as the start of the 'Second Sino-Japanese War' which didn't end until the surrender of Japan in 1945.

[Galactic G (Greg)]

..

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by Galactic G

Well I would say that the invasion of Poland was the start of the war in the European Theatre. However, I think that the first shot in WWII was actually shot on the night of the 7 July 1937 by Chinese soldiers .

Hi,

Yes, that is the trouble we get into trying to define something like this. It all becomes a matter of definition.

- is the first shot before or after the formal declaration of war?

- would the Second Sino-Japanese war have precipitated world war if nothing else had happened?

- what is world war - literally "war around the world"? Did that not start until the first shot at Pearl Harbour (by the USS Ward)?

Anyway all this doesn't really belong in IIS, so that's my last shot in the matter

Cheers