Infinity where do we find it?

[xelasnave]

I was thinking about infinity and realise it is a hard thing to find.
Is the Universe infinite?
If it is... does that mean there is a scale of infinitely small or can infinite only relate to large???
Yes it is cloudy ..why do you ask?

alex

[Glenhuon (Bill)]

Well, since the universe seems to be thing of opposites, symetrical an all that. I would imagine that if there is an infinitely large thing, there must be something infinitely small to match. But trying to visualise it is something else. Now my brain hurts and its cloudy here to.

Bill

[Rick Petrie]

Infinity------How long, or short, or wide, is a piece of string.
I guess "string theory" should prove or disprove.
Hope someone can tell you Alex.
I think someone said it is at the end of a rainbow.
Cheers

[Jen]

its all way over my head

[Dennis]

Hi Alex,

That is a very interesting question. I suspect that you can’t “find” infinity because it has never been lost.

A long while ago, I recall reading some verses of the Vedanta, where it was written that Atman is infinite; bigger than the biggest thing and at the same time smaller than the smallest thing.

This had me puzzled for a long, long time before I realised that their “concept” of Atman is that of an infinite, eternal, undifferentiated state, being or oneness, so being infinite it both contains everything (bigger than the biggest thing) and also permeates everything (smaller than the smallest thing), but is itself formless in that is has no boundaries nor is it contained by anything.

It seems that when the seeker “finds” this Atman or supreme state of being, they realise that it has never been lost or absent; simply that the seeker was looking in the wrong place with the wrong set of tools. It seemed quite an interesting and stimulating philosophy, from the little I now recall.

Cheers

Dennis

[mick pinner]

surely infinity is only a theory? if the universe is infinite we wouldn't live long enough if we went to find out one way or another anyway, would we.

[Starkler (Geoff)]

The thread title had me thinking for a moment before I opened it up.

Does infinity really exist in nature or is it just a mathematical construct?

The closest practical application for infinity I can think of is in describing the geometry of light rays hitting different parts of a telescopes objective from a star. With the angle between them being for all intents 0 degrees, placing the source effectively at infinity.

Its not infinity, but you wont measure the difference on a telescopes mirror.

[monoxide]

id be more inclined to say that mathematics made infinities not nature

even if the universe expanded forever, does that mean it is really infinite or does it just mean that we cant put a number on a bit of paper that makes sense?
something like an ant contemplating the size of the earth comes to mind

interesting topic though..

[xelasnave]

Infinite is so big (or small I guess) that no matter how much you take from it it will remain infinite..

Infinite can not be derived by doubling something over and over such that it reaches a point where it is infinite..

I wonder when some say the Universe started as a "seed" and doubled (via inflation if you like) and doubled and double and again and so on such that it becomes infinite..that can not happen as the size will still be quantifiable... and being quantifiable therefore finite.

I wonder also if we then admit we have a finite Universe (about 160 billion light years across is a convenient unconfirmed figure I have run across) does it float in a sea of nothing... for there can be no such thing as nothing if you really think about it.. does this mean although our universe is finite in one sence that in another (as there is nothing outside it) that it is infinite...

Now my head hurts but the question now with me is ...how can a finite Universe float in a sea of nothing???

alex

[xelasnave]

It is interesting that we can be presented with infinite via math in such a simple proposition as dividing 3 into 10 ..
alex

[xelasnave]

Still although the number presents an infinite glimpse the process seeks only to quantify a finite part of a finite item or object in this case the whole 10

Apparently those involved in the math relating to infinity are prone to lose it...well I heard that on the radio so it must be true
alex

[Dennis]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Now my head hurts but the question now with me is ...how can a finite universe float in a sea of nothing???
alex

Hi Alex

Maybe “no thing” is not the same as “nothing”? No thing may simply mean no thing(s); that is, no galaxies, stars, planets, elements, etc. But that may not necessarily mean a nothingness, a void or a vacuum – it could just be the simplest state, the same "one" thing everywhere, pure, indivisible and undifferentiated, simply full of itself. Having always “existed”, not coming from somewhere into something, timeless, without boundaries, edges, colour, shape or limits, “it” “exists” outside of our capacity to think, feel, touch, describe or intuit it, as these faculties of ours always deal with finite things?

Cheers

Dennis

[Starkler (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

It is interesting that we can be presented with infinite via math in such a simple proposition as dividing 3 into 10 ..
alex

Take a 10g piece of cheese and cut it into 3 equal parts and there nothing inherently infinite about it, only the numerical system used to describe it.

[Kal (Andrew)]

The universe is not infinite. If you were to explore any facet to the extreme searching for infinity then the laws of physics that you know will break down and not become applicable any more. An example would be when you accelerate an object towards the speed of light. It takes an ever increasing amount of energy, and warps the comman mans concept of time and mass. When searching for the edge of the universe I'm sure that this is what you will find. My guess is you will reach a point where the concept of time & space itself breaks down, and if time & space don't exist then what we would classify as the "universe" doesn't exist.

[gman (Grant)]

Q. Start with what does "Infinity" mean?
A. An indefinitely large amout

Q. What does "indefinitely" mean?
A. Having no exact limits

Does this mean that the universe is infinite until we know the exact dimensions in one of the dimensions?

[xelasnave]

Well the Sun is out so much for infinity and stuff I am going out.

This is a historic post folks....

It is from up home because I have a 3g pre paid set up and this is the first thing I do with it.... took a while to get a signal but now I am sitting inside...
This means on those long lonely days I can share my thoughts with the rest of you all.... oh dear.

Anyways wonderful inputs on such a profound matter for humans to consider.

I must go now I have to get the power here sorted again this thing is near flat.


alex