Newt, Dob, Refractor...$700...Astrophotography . What to choose? First time observer.

[Geist (James)]

I've never looked at the sky other than with my own eyes. My sister wants me to recommend her a telescope so I've been browsing for a few days. Now I'm also excited about looking at nebula and galaxies, and maybe taking some deep space photos with my Nikon D40 and HD Video with the Canon HV20. We will be observing in Whittlesea, Warrandyte and Phillip Island areas.

I don't know how much money I'll need to spend or what to expect. We're splitting the costs so I have about $700 to play with. Basically I'd just like some recommendations thrown at me based on this list:

1. Want to see colourful nebulas, maybe some galaxies. Planets are interesting but we both are more curious about deep space objects. This is the most important point.
2. Ease of use and portability. One person should be able to set up quickly and pack it away each night.
3. Astrophotography. Taking pics and video with the equipment I own would be nice but from what i've read this is a very labourious task?
4. Upgradeablity. Adding a motor, eypeices, changeable mount/stands would be a plus, and maybe adding imaging capability later on if not immediately viable.

The refractor scopes sound appealing as they don't flip the image and are said to be better suited to astrophotography. These are some of the scopes I've considered:

Celestron Astromaster 130EQ. (130mm Newt on EQ stand) Approx $400
Skywatcher SW-600 200 x 1000P EQ5. $799.00 AUD (but over budget )
Meade 8" truss dob. $700 or bigger generic type truss from Andrews
Skywatcher 150 x 750 OTA + seperate stand. (probably over budget)

There seems to be multiple versions of the same type of scope. This is very confusing and the prices are all over the place. I'm willing to pay a premium if there is a shopfront in Melbourne (for warranty purposes).

Thanks in advance for your opinions. I've read some scope choice articles but somehow this only left me with more questions. BTW, can you see deep space objects clearly with binoculars?

[Davros (Lauren)]

Basically the bigger aperture the more light you can collect. Dobs are fantastic for large aperture versus price but are not best suited for photography. For photography you need something that can track the movement of the object through the sky.
You need long exposures to get sufficient light. You wont see colour with your eyes as it only comes from long exposure images. Binoculars are good but again more aperture = better, more detailed views.
Personally i would leave the photography for now until you are willing to spend big money and start out with a 10 or 12 inch dob. The views will leave you speechless and with it being a non guided scope you will learn the sky as you go.
P.S welcome to IIS

[Geist (James)]

Thanks for the welcome Mick. Can I see the colour of nebula through a 10" Dob?

[Davros (Lauren)]

Try this link to Bintel. Its a local Melbourne store of note. This link is to the 12 inch Dob. Provided you can fit it in your vehicle you couldnt find better. The 10 inch just fits in my family sedan.

https://www.bintelshop.com.au/welcome.htm

P.S. No you wont see the colour but you can easily define the features. You will see colour on the planets. Jupiter is pretty spectacular at the moment. It will appear as beige with different shaded bands etc. Saturn is noticeabley yellow.

[Geist (James)]

I just read this on seeing colour in nebulae http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/10/...or-in-nebulae/ One commenter you can see colour in a few bright ones with an 8". So I guess most of the others are just black and white

[Davros (Lauren)]

True, to an extant.The larger the mirror the more colour you will see however it takes very large apertures to see any definite colour. I have seen colour through a very large scope (20 + inches) but it really cant compare to photography. The orion nebulae shows as black and white through my ten inch, and it is one of the larger more speccy ones.

[Geist (James)]

These are the scopes I'm eying:

From Bintel website -
Meade Lightbridge Deluxe 08" Dobsonian $699

From Andrews website -
Skywatcher SW-600 200 x 1000P EQ5 $799.00
Skywatcher collapsible DOB 8" 200mm x 1200mm $399.00
Skywatcher collapsible DOB 10" 254mm x 1200mm $699.00
Skywatcher ED80 x 600 with AZ3 A$549 (This refractor needs a finder)
Guan Sheng Dob 8" 10" or 12" $299 - $700 (wait until new SDX tension adjustable ones are in stock)

These are some Andrews binoculars I might pick out in the future -
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-co...11-andrews.htm

High magnification 15 X 70 binoculars $149.00 AUD
High contrast 11 X 70 binoculars $149.00 AUD
High performance zoom 12~36 X 70 binoculars $149.00 AUD
High magnification 15 X 60 binoculars $99.00 AUD
12 X 60 binoculars $99.00 AUD
Sharp contrast 10 X 60 -or- 8 x 60 binoculars $99.00 AUD each
ZOOM 10~30 X 60 binoculars =SOLD OUT=

[AlexN]

I wouldnt go past a big dob for a first scope... easy to set up and use, Transportable provided you have the right vehicle, Price per inch of aperture can not be beaten....

Photography is one of those things that If you dont have the equipment needed, or the budget to cover it more to the point, you're going to have very little but massive headaches.

For a decent astrophotography mount you're looking at least $1100 for the Skywatcher HEQ5Pro. That mount limits your scope options due to it not liking much more than 10 - 13kgs.. but you would probably get a nice refractor+guidescope+camera on it without too much problems.. but then you're looking at 1100 mount, 399 for an ED80 scope for imaging (at andrews) 200 for a guide scope and whatever a guide cam costs you.

You could probably do without the guidescope +guide cam... but still your looking at 1500.. JUST to get you started..

Hence my first comment. Spend as much money as you can justify on a dob that will fit in your car. the views are awesome and simplicity can not be beaten.

A note on color: On perfect nights from a dark sky spot, i've seen a SLIGHT greenish tinge to M42 (orion) and The keyhole nebula.. and have questioned whether i saw the same greenish tinge from M8... Other than that, deep space objects are black and white through my 8"... Jupiter and Saturn show distinct color...

Hope this helps.

[Davros (Lauren)]

Originally Posted by Geist

These are the scopes I'm eying:

From Bintel website -
Meade Lightbridge Deluxe 08" Dobsonian $699

From Andrews website -
Skywatcher SW-600 200 x 1000P EQ5 $799.00
Skywatcher collapsible DOB 8" 200mm x 1200mm $399.00
Skywatcher collapsible DOB 10" 254mm x 1200mm $699.00
Skywatcher ED80 x 600 with AZ3 A$549 (This refractor needs a finder)
Guan Sheng Dob 8" 10" or 12" $299 - $700 (wait until new SDX tension adjustable ones are in stock)

These are some Andrews binoculars I might pick out in the future -
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-co...11-andrews.htm

High magnification 15 X 70 binoculars $149.00 AUD
High contrast 11 X 70 binoculars $149.00 AUD
High performance zoom 12~36 X 70 binoculars $149.00 AUD
High magnification 15 X 60 binoculars $99.00 AUD
12 X 60 binoculars $99.00 AUD
Sharp contrast 10 X 60 -or- 8 x 60 binoculars $99.00 AUD each
ZOOM 10~30 X 60 binoculars =SOLD OUT=

The collapsible 10 inch Dob is the one to go for. There is so much to see with my 10 inch that i could go for many years without upgrade. Being collapsible it will be easy to transport and store as well. Check Andrews website for prices on a 12 inch fixed dob as well. You will need a wagon to transport it to dark sky sites though.

[Davros (Lauren)]

From Andrews website GSO Dobs

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/images/...nian/gs980.jpg
Guan Sheng GS-980 12"
300mm x 1500mmDeluxe Crayford version
-Sold out of this model-

Super Deluxe version
Super low price!
$749.00 AUD

First grade 12" (300mm x 1500mm) Dobsonian reflectors with truly outstanding 1/12 surface wave BK7 mirrors and 2" Crayford style focuser with 2" to 1.25" adaptor.

Deluxe version includes a right-angle correct image 8 x 50 finderscope, a 2" Crayford style focuser with a 2" to 1.25" adaptor, fan and GSO 9mm and 25mm 1.25" Plossl eyepieces.

Super Deluxe version includes a right-angle correct image 8 x 50 finderscope, 2" Crayford style microfocuser with 10:1 fine focusing and a 2" to 1.25" adaptor, fan, GSO 6mm, 9mm, 15mm and 25mm 1.25" Plossl eyepieces - and a bonus SP32mm 2" eyepiece, too!
That's five high quality eyepieces included (not just two or three)!!
There is no need to pay far more elsewhere for your next telescope!!

Please note that GSO has gone "back to the future" by fitting teflon pads to their Dobsonian telescope rotating bases.
The leaflet currently included in GSO Dobsonian base boxes (not 16" size) showing needle roller bearings and steel sheets being incorporated is incorrect - as it's out of date.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Like the others have said, if all you have to spend is about $700, don't try astrophotography....leave that till later, once you've got the money to get into it and the knowledge of the sky to know what you're looking at and where it is. Stick with a big dob, and funnily enough you can do some piccie through it. Either afocally using your DSLR or a DMK/DBK camera will take piccies of the Moon and planets through a dob OK.

$700 will buy you a 10" Bintel dob ($599), and an extra $99 will get you a 12" dob ($799).

[csb (Craig)]

And then comes the collimation. It seems that especially newtonians need collimating - means aligning the mirrors.

This task is said to be easy after you have done it a few times. You shouldn't need to do it every time...maybe.

I hate working in the dark so I sold my newt and got a refractor 120mm - although I haven't used it yet.

It would probably be helpful to seek out an astronomy club and attend a viewing night, with you sister. The people will gladly show off their equipment and you'll see what size you like.

This site has great info on what you will see in a 6" scope anytype:

http://www.geocities.com/the_150mm_reflector/

I used it a lot when I was deciding.

[Geist (James)]

We've decided to go with a cheaper scope, around $400, just to get our feet wet. Was actually considering the 12" collapsible Skywatcher for $999 yesterday but then just decided against it for several reasons. These are the choices, in order of preference, I've narrowed it down too:

1. Skywatcher 150 x 750P EQ3-2 $399.00 AUD
2. Guan Sheng GS-500 6" f/5 150mm x 750mm on SV1 Equatorial mount with tripod $399.00 AUD (Includes a 6 x 30 finderscope and 9mm and 25mm GSO Plossl eyepieces)
3. Skywatcher collapsible DOB 8" 200mm x 1200mm $399.00 AUD (not avail. til september, so this is too long too wait)
4. Bintel BT-202 08" Premium Dobsonian $429 (No tension ajdustment?)
5. Guan Sheng GS-680 8" 200mm x 1200mm Deluxe Crayford version $299.00 AUD (Will be updated "soon" with tension adjustment)
5. AstroMaster 130EQ 130mm x 650mm reflector on EQ mount $379.00 AUD
6. Skywatcher 102 x 500 AZ3 $399.00 AUD

Leaning toward the first two with the EQ mounts because I want to learn to track and stare at objects for extended periods. I think with the dob objects will only be in view for less than a minute before the scope has to be moved. Is that correct? How easy is it to track a nebula with a 8" dob?

Is there a particular eyepeice type best to use with these? What astronomy guidebook should I get? I might order tonight.

[renormalised (Carl)]

If you don't get a dob, if you get a scope with an EQ mount, get one with dual axis drives. That'll save you having to use RA/DEC cables to move the scope with your target. That means your SW150 will cost $599.

As far as objects moving out of FoV, that depends on what eyepiece you're using. Low power, wide field eyepieces will keep them in view for longer than high power EP's. It's just a matter of slightly pushing the dob to keep the object in view, so long as it tracks smoothly on the board.

[erick (Eric)]

James, can you wait until you've seen a few scopes and looked through them? You'll learn a lot more quickly then - more than looking at the photos or seeing them in the shop.

However, to comment on some of your questions:- Yes, since the dobsonian mount is not being driven to counter the earth's rotation, the sky moves through the field of view. With, say a 30mm eyepiece, this is relatively slow - you can observe without worrying about the movement. At high magnification - say a 10mm eyepiece in a 2x barlow lens - yes, the object zips through in tens of seconds max. Straight out of the box, you should be able to easily move your scope in its dobsonian mount to keep bringing the object back to the field of view. With a few modifications (all described in various threads) this can become an easy task that, with experience, becomes second nature.

If you really don't want this bother, yes, look at an equatorial mount, driven on the RA axis. Also much easier to show the object to others who are not experienced in the gentle "nudge" movement needed to track with a dobsonian.

Most of these scopes should come with some bundled eyepieces - ask. Start with those - you'll see plenty.

Re an astronomy guidebook, try the "Atlas of the SOuthern Night Sky" by Massey and Quirk:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=23186

You could also look at the "Pocket Sky Atlas" by Sinnott if you just want to find things:-

http://www.amazon.com/Sky-Telescopes...5411089&sr=8-1

I believe that you would also need a planisphere - buy one of the big ones, not the small ones.

Eric

[Davros (Lauren)]

To track with a dob is a piece of cake. I have one hand on the knob just under the top end of the scope and it is second nature to move it slowly as the object moves. Dont worry about tension adjustment on the dobs. it is very easy to adjust the tension. Difficult to explain but easy when seen. I highly recommend having a look through a couple of the scopes you are thinking off. The bigger dobs (10 and 12 inch) are absolute light buckets that give you the most bang for your buck. When talking about light gathering and therefore definition of objects the 12 inch takes in almost double what the 10 inch takes. If that gives you an idea.
I personally wouldnt bother with an EQ mount that wasnt driven and guided on both axis and the price of those bad boys is well beyond me. I do harbour fantasies of one day mounting my 10 inch dob on an EQ mount when i am rich and famous.
I would hate to hear that you bought a smaller scope and then looked through a large aperture dob down the track and became upset at the difference in viewing power.
Go through some posts on the site here and have a look how many people amongst the observers list a big dob in their signatures. Thats the reason that they keep selling out.

[Geist (James)]

I can see myself with a 12"+ collapsible dob sometime in the future. $999 seems quite affordable.

For now I think we'll pick up the
Bintel BT-202 08" Premium Dobsonian $429 https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=6739

Will this fit into an Astra?

[erick (Eric)]

My 8" fits neatly into my Lancer. The OTA sits nicely at the rear of the boot nearest the tailgate and the base sits on the back seat. I can get lots more stuff (eyepiece cases, containers with batteries, binocular cases, clothes, food, charts, computer, chairs, table, blankets....) into the boot and the back seat and have room for a front seat passenger as well. I can even keep my tool boxes and various junk in the boot.

Strangely, the OTA does not fit as well into the boot of the Ford Futura? There is a well in the boot compartment and the OTA doesn't fit neatly into it. I reckon you'll do fine with your Astra. I understand that if you drive to Bintel Melbourne, they will let you try a demo model for size - on the basis that if you drop it, it's yours and payment is due!

Cheers
Eric

[AlexN]

Mate, the 8" will go into an astra without a worry in the world... I've seen people get out of little Toyota seca's at star parties with 10" dobs in them...

Its amazing to see so much gear come out of some small cars.

[pneuman (Leigh)]

I've got the 8" Bintel dob and it fits without a problem in my Mazda2 -- the base goes in the boot, and the OTA lays nicely across the back seats. There's left-over room in the boot, too, so I reckon I could probably put the base in the boot, fold down one of the back seats, run the OTA along that seat in to the boot, and have room for an extra passenger