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Old 25-09-2015, 01:28 PM
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Combining Images - Multiple Formats and Resolutions

G'day Everyone

Bit of a noob question here.

I previously started on a DSLR and moved into using a CCD. I sold my CCD when I sold a lot of my equipment off at the beginning of the year.

I am looking to get back into imaging and I still have my old modified Canon 300D (removed filter etc), I also have access to a Canon 50D.

I was wondering is there any good way to combine images from multiple camera types/resolutions? For example, combining images from both a modified 300D and unmodified 50D when resolution and megapixels are different.

Can this also been done to combine CCD and DSLR images (should I get a CCD again in the future)?

I have heard of people using PixInSight and Registar, are these the ones to use?

Are there any free programs for just trialling this technique?

Is it worth it?

Cheers

Gav
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Old 26-09-2015, 11:08 AM
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Hi Gav,
RegiStar is quite easy to use and it's pretty quick.
I haven't used pixinsight so can't comment on that method.

Cheers
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Old 26-09-2015, 11:27 AM
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Thanks

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Hi Gav,
RegiStar is quite easy to use and it's pretty quick.
I haven't used pixinsight so can't comment on that method.

Cheers
Thanks for the advice Russell.

29+ views and no advice, I was starting to get worried.

I just wasn't sure if that was the correct program to use and whether it could be done. I was just going on the limited information I could find on other peoples posts.

Will have a look at Registar.

Any more advise or opinions would be great (any body got a basic tutorial?).

Cheers

Gav
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Old 26-09-2015, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GC - South Aus View Post
Thanks for the advice Russell.

29+ views and no advice, I was starting to get worried.

I just wasn't sure if that was the correct program to use and whether it could be done. I was just going on the limited information I could find on other peoples posts.

Will have a look at Registar.

Any more advise or opinions would be great (any body got a basic tutorial?).

Cheers

Gav
No worries Gav i actually wrote a longer reply but it seemed to disappear, so reposted with a shorter response.

It is pretty user friendly, i have used it in conjunction with photoshop and managed to successfully navigate it without watching any tutorials. it is pretty much purely an aligning program. i think there is a free trial on the website but you would need to double check.

I use it in conjunction with photoshop as its then easier to manipulate how you want to blend data. I have used it to stitch a pano together, and align NB to dslr data, then blend it to R, or B channels. its fairly simple to copy and add perfectly aligned images / channels etc https://starizona.com/acb/ccd/software/ps_hargb.aspx hard to explain but i found i wasted so much time trying to align 'by hand' in photoshop with warp tool etc.

Good luck

edit: one thing to add, is i usually have to adjust the file type before i use it. I use tiff usually and i think they have to be in 16bit format (from memory), i believe fits can be 32bit. but i am stretching the memory.
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Old 27-09-2015, 09:28 PM
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Gav your question has two issues.

1) technique to combine images from different cameras and/or sessions of photography

2) programs that can do it

Combine images from differente cameras or sessions is an exaustive task. Some times you need much time and effort.
Problems with alignments, rotation, scale, sharpness of images, background glow and others call for many adjustments and graphic process.

Alignments and rotation can cause others issues like natural distortions of periphery of the photo with different areas of the target between photos. Some times you can align the left side of two photos but the right side will be out.

I did something with Photoshop CS3: adjustments of histogram, alignments. Mainly working with layers ressource.

DSS can do someting, also. You need work with group tabs. It accepts different ISO or cameras types with this ressource.

Therefore it is possible and there are some beautiful works with combining. But, warning, it is not an easy task.
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Old 28-09-2015, 08:07 PM
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Thanks Jorge

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmoraes View Post
Gav your question has two issues.

1) technique to combine images from different cameras and/or sessions of photography

2) programs that can do it

Combine images from differente cameras or sessions is an exaustive task. Some times you need much time and effort.
Problems with alignments, rotation, scale, sharpness of images, background glow and others call for many adjustments and graphic process.

Alignments and rotation can cause others issues like natural distortions of periphery of the photo with different areas of the target between photos. Some times you can align the left side of two photos but the right side will be out.

I did something with Photoshop CS3: adjustments of histogram, alignments. Mainly working with layers ressource.

DSS can do someting, also. You need work with group tabs. It accepts different ISO or cameras types with this ressource.

Therefore it is possible and there are some beautiful works with combining. But, warning, it is not an easy task.
Thanks Jorge

Don't worry, I was under no impression this was going to be easy!

To give an idea of exactly what I am meaning or intending to do in the beginning of my return to imaging. Is to image an object with the 300D which is modified. Then just remove it and wack in the 50D and image the same object. But I started thinking about the difference in megapixels and resolution between the two (I.e. 300D 6MP and 50D 15MP), and whether this would mean it wouldn't work.

On another note I looked and downloaded Registar. Registration price in $120 ! Better start saving those pennies again.

Cheers

Gav
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Old 28-09-2015, 09:17 PM
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I understand that with 15 Mpixel you will have more details than 6 Mpixel, and when combining both images you will add different levels of informations. The 6 Mpixel will be good to register the global shape of a nebula and 15 Mpixel will be good to register the details of this nebula.

If you work with RAW mode, the same for others modes, the image will not be the same of sensor. It will be debayered and those RGB pixels (Canon 1100D = RGBG) will be converted to a group of pixels with more then the four original pixels. After debayer there isn't RGBG. As the total Mpixel will be the same ... we can say that debayer loose informations (and details).

With stars, the 6 Mpixel will show a more large stars. I undertand that the result will be a more blurred border of stars.

I already saw images as result from combination not only from different cameras but from different telescopes: reflector and refractor. With different aperture also.

Therefore, it will work. But it will need much work ! Resize and align the images will be a long task.

note:
it will not be much different from what I do when using Halpha filter to enhance the red information adding to photos by UHC filter and adding them to photos with Skyglow filter with stock color Canon.
The Mpixels are equals. But the image are very different in shape and colors after debayer.
I use the Halpha and UHC (a OIII + Halpha type of filter) only to enhance the colors of areas of main skyglow filter photo. I have good result with this.
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Old 29-09-2015, 09:26 AM
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Simple answer, yes it can be done with PixInsight. By registering one set of images against another they get resized so they can be stacked. Likewise for mosaics.
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Old 29-09-2015, 07:52 PM
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Thanks Sil & Jorge

Quote:
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Simple answer, yes it can be done with PixInsight. By registering one set of images against another they get resized so they can be stacked. Likewise for mosaics.
Thanks Sil & Again Jorge

No just to work how which program to use and how to do it.

Cheers

Gav
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Old 29-09-2015, 08:04 PM
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Pixinsight, like most complex software, takes quite a bit of learning/familiarity to get the most from it. Trial available, and probably for some of the others quoted here too.

You'll need something to process after you aligning remember, and would be hard pressed to better the bang for buck with PI.
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Old 30-09-2015, 08:32 AM
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I don't know what software they used but the BBC Stargazing Live show did a citizen science project stacking images of Orion taken with any old camera to produce a detailed shot.

Gav,
if I was in your shoes I would start with finding a shot covering the target you want to reveal at the resolution/detail you want in the final shot. Even if you find a photo online. This you don't use in your final shot, its just a target to align your shots against.

With PixInsight I'd use Dynamic Alignment. Load your target image and one of your images into PI. Open DA then click on to target image then click on your image. Now you click on a star in the target image and a marker should appear in your image probably nowhere near the same corresponding star so you'll have to zoom in and manually drag it to the matching star. Repeat for a second star. Now PI will understand the scale difference between the shots and adding further stars around the target shot should match up in yours better. When you apply the alignment, your image will be rescaled to match your target image and image size. You might end up with a black/empty image with your image a rescaled postage stamp somewhere in the shot. Save this, I make a subfolder called "reg" for registered images to keep them together and seperate from source sets.

Rinse and repeat with your set of source images. It'll be time consuming and tedious but at the end you will end up with a set of images all aligned and at the same scale regardless of the gear used to take them.

Now you can throw them all into the ImageIntegration module to stack them to a single image. After that I'd do a screentransferfunction stretch to see if the image edges look good or need cropping, then crop, dynamic background extraction, histogram stretch. This at least will get you a "final" image.

You do not need to do anything for colour calibration, you can even do all this with JPGs only if its all you have. The above process is a simple workflow, there are options in all the steps to improve data quality and a few other things you can do to try to get a more technically accurate final shot but the above will get you 99% of the way there; its reliable and repeatable and anyone with PI should be able to get a result. I tried using Photoshop years ago to align and stack but never got results i was happy with, I found ways of using panorama stitching software to get my source shots aligned perfectly so i could stack them properly in photoshop. Once I figured it out in PI though I haven't looked back.

No doubt there are ways of doing it with all other packages, I know this method works and while PI isn't perfect it suits my needs. Figuring out how to use your data is half the fun and its great to see features and faint objects be revealed with even poor quality starting shots. Good luck!
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Old 30-09-2015, 06:55 PM
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Thanks Sil

G'day Sil

Thanks for the detailed and suggestive response.

Will look into it, thanks for the tips.

Cheers

Gav
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