CPC 800 XLT vs C8 CarbonFiber+HEQ5Pro

[adi (Avi)]

HI Guys,
I am looking to get my second scope and i am looking to get Celestron CPC 800 XLT or C8 CarbonFiber + HEQ5pro.
I have no experience with equator mounts so please advise me Pro and Cons of both. i have done some reading but not able to decide. here is my finding -
CPC 800XLT is very portable and looks easy to use vs HEQ5 looks bit complicated to use may be because i am new but you guys can advise.
but i am also looking at long run - what happens if something happens to motor of CPC model i would need to replace entire thing right? with C8+HEQ5pro i get flexibility of changing scope or add auto-guider etc.
I am planning to add camera and try some long exposure photography away from Melbourne city. so star tracking is very important.

What setup would give me best quality pictures?

P.S. - both setup i am getting are used for about 3+ years. so please consider age of mounts or scopes where it could lead to any problem.

[dannat (Daniel)]

if you do want to get into photography the Heq5 may be beter, in the end should give better results than the fork mountt; yes the heq5 gives more flexibility also

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

The CPC is a great visual scope... you just plonk it down and power it up, follow the star alignment procedure and away it goes. Very solid, good tracking. However, because it's alt-azimuth, "long" exposures are going to be limited, and the C8 tube is captive - it can't be removed (at least, not reversibly!).

The HEQ5 is more versatile. You can stick any scope on it you like, or even just a camera, within the weight capabilities of the mount. It's a little steeper learning curve to get working as you'll need to polar align even for visual, but once you get the hang of it you can refine your procedure and take much longer exposures.

They both have a similar hand controller which work in very similar ways. Regardless of which mount you get, if something goes horribly wrong with it you'd need to get it repaired. Despite their differing appearances, they both use electronically controlled motors driving their worm gears.

[adi (Avi)]

Thanks guys for reply. portability wise i am more inclined towards CPC 800 XLT. one last question when you say "long" exposures are going to be limited - what does it mean? could you please explain in bit more details? i am planning to track nebula's or Andromeda galaxy or as deep as possible with this scope and some serious tracking with stacked images post processing. off course this is big learning plan of almost a year for me.

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

The strength of the CPC is for visual...ergonomic from the placement of the handles, you just stick the robot body (fork + tube) on top of the legs and you're good to go. But the fork part is well built, meaning heavy just the C8 ota alone weighs less than 6kg but the CPC800 is 20kg iirc. It's also bulkier than any single component of the equatorial setup.

The pieces would have are:

• both - tripod
• CPC - fork mount including ota
• HEQ5 - mount head and counterweights
• HEQ5 - C8 optical tube assembly (ota)

There's really not a lot in it, but each component of the HEQ5 setup would be smaller and lighter.

When it comes to long exposures, the difference is in the way the two mounts track. The CPC tracks in altitude and azimuth (vertical and horizontal), which means that as an object moves across the sky because of the rotation of the earth, the object rotates in the eyepiece...this is called field rotation...and it's because the mount is tracking relative to the ground, rather than the sky in longer exposures, you would see this field rotation as curved star trails.

The HEQ5 - being an equatorial mount - tracks in right ascension (RA) and declination (Dec) which are like longitude and latitude. This means that the mount counteracts (as precisely as possible) the rotation of the earth in the same plane as it is rotating and therefore doesn't suffer from field rotation, and therefore much longer exposures are possible.

One other thing to note about Andromeda....Andromeda is very big relative to many other deep space objects, and you won't get very much of it in the field of view of a C8 because of the focal length of the scope. For large targets such as Andromeda, you need a much shorter focal length scope. Last year I captured Andromeda with my 71mm refractor (focal length ~350mm) and it fit in the FOV nicely.

[adi (Avi)]

Thanks a lot. so i will take C8 out of picture now.
HEQ5pro and C8 is the way to go.
since you are very good at explaining would please add value regarding eyepeace i should add to setup and some guidance towards astrophotography with limited budget to start with?
currently my max achievement is Jupiter with moons. so from planets to stars or galaxy is a big journey. any recommendations?

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Depends on what gear you have and what your interests are... there are lots of possibilities, Lunar and planetary prefer fast frame rate cameras which is the opposite of long exposure deep space photography.

Also the telescopes you'd use could be quite different. For small objects you probably want to be using a longer focal length scope, while for lots of the bigger nebulae and stuff like Andromeda a small fast scope is more suitable, since it's the focal length of the scope (in combination with the sensor size on the camera) that determines your field of view. Then there's always wide field night photography, just your camera on a tripod/mount, with whatever lens you've got. Try it, you'd be surprised what you'll be able to pick with what you may have already

[adi (Avi)]

HI guys,
how about Orion XX12G dob which is GOTO. how it is different compare to Fork mount or EQ mount? please advise. that scope is currently in our market and within my budget

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Great visual scope...make sure you see it before you buy as it's big and heavy!

[Q. (Quentin)]

Hi Avi,

I started visual with a 5" reflector, then a 10' dobs.
Last year I decided to start astrophoto. Initially I was keen on a HEQ5 + RC8.
After a lot a reading on the web, my conclusion was that it was better to start with a HEQ5 + ED refractor such as ED80.
With an ED refractor, you don't need to bother with collimation.
It is very portable (around 3kg depending on the models) so grab and go, but also less demanding on the HEQ5 than the 7-8kg of an 8" reflector or RC8.
The focal length is short so it is relatively fast, and it forgives a lot compared to FL>1000mm scopes. A longer FL requires a very accurate polar alignment.
In conclusion, the learning curve is not too steep and you get good results very quickly. On the other hand, some people might be disgusted after spending a bit of money and only facing issues with any result.

With an ED80, you can target galaxies : M31, M33, Leo triplet, Markarian chain. Nebulas : Eta Carina, M8, Orion M42, Horsehead, Tarantula, Rosette and so on. Obviously open and globular clusters.
You can get smaller objects like the Sombrero galaxy, Centaurus A and planetary nebulas M57 or Helix, but yes they appear small on the pictures.

When you have done all these, you may want to keep shooting wide field, ,or move to longer FL scope (SCT, RC, big reflector) to shoot smaller objects, or both !

Hope this helped.

Cheers
Quentin.

[Q. (Quentin)]

The consensus seems to go for equatorial mount as explained by Camelopardalis.
It is possible to shoot with a dobs or a fork mount by adding a wedge though.
I have no experience with such set up...

[adi (Avi)]

Thanks for help buddy. my image setup is on hold for couple of months
but its good to keep reading and take proper decision rather than getting frustrated later.