Bathroom renovations

[iceman (Mike)]

Hey guys

Looks like we have a leak in the shower in our main bathroom, which has leaked through into the particle board floor and has been dripping underneath the house.

At that point, the particle board looks like it's ready to collapse. Very soggy, crumbly.

It might turn out that's going to be a big fix, so we figured we might renovate the whole bathroom while we're at it - as it's pretty overdue anyway.

Does anyone have experience they can share publicly or privately regarding bathroom renovations?

Just a few of the questions that spring to mind:

- Do we just get a 'builder'?
- Do we get a specific 'bathroom renovation' person?
- Who does the 'design' of a bathroom renovation?
- How can we save money? Demolish ourselves? Re-tile ourselves? Buy kits, or new toilet, or cabinet etc from Bunnings?

Anyone who's been through this themselves and can offer any advice or experience, I'd appreciate it

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

Unless you want to get involved in re-plumbing or re-wiring...bringing the existing configuration "up to date" is probably the easiest and cheapest way.
When we did ours, we selected and bought the vanity/taps, shaving cabinet, the toilet/ pan and managed to re-use the shower base and screen.
We selected and bought the floor and wall tiles and new light fittings.
Shopped around for a local builder " we're all busy at the moment - may be start in two months!!!" They were right - a two month delay!
The builder ripped up the old floor tiles (on concrete slab) pulled the wall tiles and made good the waterproof panelling.
He then installed all the bits we had bought.
We did the painting.....
HTH

[The_bluester (Paul)]

First advice would be to beware of the possability of asbestos contaning materials in the bathroom. They often have fibro cement type cladding behind the walls that may well contain asbestos.

We redid a bathroom a couple of years ago to freshen it up, ripped down the horrid wall cladding (Fake green marble stuff) and replaced the vanity, rebuilt the shower cubicle, removed the bath and recycled the plumbing from that to move the laundry in there as the bathroom was a silly size and the existing laundry was otherwise a wasted room..

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Wet particle board ... weetbix .... expensive. Check further around the floor, rooms next door etc as it wicks through underneath and spreads the crumbling effect. Mate of mine had it, major rebuild to two bedrooms and a hall. He always wondered why the house was always damp but then he also left it too long to do anything about it. Had to lift walls and refloor about 20% of the house. No kidding.
Get underneath and check the extent of the crumbling. Lift carpet, peer in closets.
Bathrooms are one of the most expensive rooms in the house to renovate. Sorry, not good news I know. Sooner you fix it the better.

I've done my own bathroom and Kitchen renovations in the past. Messy and still expensive. Not sure what your best options are over in Aust.

[louie_the_fly (Stew)]

Did a bathroom years ago. Bit of a nightmare, and pretty expensive.

- Do we just get a 'builder'? If you have the time, tools and skills there's no reason you can't do a fair bit of it yourself.
- Do we get a specific 'bathroom renovation' person? If you do get someone in I would get someone that does bathrooms. There are specific requirements under the building code as I remember. Things like damp proofing around the bottom of the walls and shower alcove.
- Who does the 'design' of a bathroom renovation? Your wife! You can get good advice from places like Beaumont Tiles (I don't have any association with them. They were good when we did reno, and when we built a new house).
- How can we save money? Demolish ourselves? Re-tile ourselves? Buy kits, or new toilet, or cabinet etc from Bunnings? Bunnings have toilet sets, etc. Some of their stuff is good. Some not so good. We demolished our internals walls, ripped up old tiles & motar bed, & put up new wall linings and cornice. Had tiler come in because I didn't have time, and also to do the damp proofing, then we did the painting and fitoput of screen, cabinet & tapware.

[Kunama]

I have renovated several bathrooms over the past 30 years.
The reason usually has been incompetent application of waterproofing membrane in the shower.
If you have the time to do it yourself and are reasonably handy with basic tools it is a job where you will save lots of money by DIY.
Definitely be aware of the likelihood of asbestos in older homes. You can usually find such info on the likelihood by googling.
If you suspect asbestos, get the experts. I won't renovate bathrooms in house older than 1990 build.
As for the 'devil's job' of bathrooms..... waterproofing the shower recess:
I remove all tiles and if necessary the lining boards and replace them.
the linings I glue and screw and then epoxy over the screwheads.
I then use Davco super primer to paint the shower recess.
Then apply a 'bond breaker' to wall/floor joints,
then a generous application of Davco Dampflex Reo to both vertical and wall/floor joins ....
then fibrematting is pressed into the wet dampflex and a second coat of dampflex over the matting ....
then dampflex membrane applied to the whole shower ....

the next day I apply a second coat of dampflex with brushstrokes at 90 degrees to the first coat .....

then the next day coat number 3 at 90 degrees to coat 2. (You get the picture ...)

then 24 hours later after checking for any pinholes that might have been missed, the tiling can be done.
Regardless of what anyone tells you YOU NEED to use CEMENT Based adhesives over the waterproofing membrane.

then there the grouting, buffing, polishing .....
Still think you want to do this job yourself

[MattT]

Four years ago I redid our bathroom myself. The previous version was done by a Bathroom company and it leaked all over the place after 2 years. We bought the house after it had been in 6 months. It was the best room in the house til then.
I got some quotes all around $30K Could not believe it so I did the whole thing myself. Employed a plumber to do the pipes etc, left the electricals exactly where they were. Cost a bit over $5K instead. But and it's a big but it took 6 months of non stop go at it, working at night has it's advantages, as I had lot's of day time to devote to it.
Pretty straight forward really. A bit of make it up as I go along and a few plans.
Four years on it still looks the same doesn't leak and I 'saved' $25K.
Get a wrecking bar and get to it….think of the scope you can get with the money saved!
And whatever you do don't buy anything from Reece….what a rip off one stop shop. Only went there as a mum from the kids school worked there. Paid $2500 for a 'nice' basin vanity that had old style draw runners. Can get the same thing pretty much for a third of the price by shopping around.
It did help that I've renovated two houses doing most of the work myself.
Matt

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Now there's a plan!

Get a quote for a nice bathroom (say $30k), work out how much the parts are to do it yourself (say $5k). Make a deal with the Mrs, take a month off work and DIY. Leave $10k in the bank to pay for your month off and buy a new scope for $15k.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Demolish and remove it yourself but get a pro to do the water proofing and tiling. Don't even think of doing it yourself. Then you can do the final fixtures yourself, vanities, holders, accessories, shower screens etc...

[iceman (Mike)]

Thanks for the feedback so far guys.

I hadn't thought about a different 'design' requiring re-plumbing or wiring. For that reason I think it'd be best to keep as close to original design as possible.

New tiles (up to the ceiling), new vanity/cabinet, new toilet, new shower/fixtures, will make it feel like new I guess

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by iceman

Thanks for the feedback so far guys.

I hadn't thought about a different 'design' requiring re-plumbing or wiring. For that reason I think it'd be best to keep as close to original design as possible.

New tiles (up to the ceiling), new vanity/cabinet, new toilet, new shower/fixtures, will make it feel like new I guess

Hint of the day:
Make sure you save at least a 1/2 box of matching tiles for any future issues,
I have just re-done a 15 yr old bathroom and was very lucky to find the same tiles hidden in a local warehouse. Usually tiles are 'unobtainium' after about 5 years.

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Originally Posted by iceman

Thanks for the feedback so far guys.

I hadn't thought about a different 'design' requiring re-plumbing or wiring. For that reason I think it'd be best to keep as close to original design as possible.

New tiles (up to the ceiling), new vanity/cabinet, new toilet, new shower/fixtures, will make it feel like new I guess

Hi Mike,
We recently did the same thing for same reason.
Leaking shower. Expected rotted structural beams would need replacing.
So completely redid the whole room.

Most expensive part would be to move the plumbing around, so just updated with same design. Tiles upto ceiling in shower, and to 1.5 metres all around rest; new bath toilet vanity and fittings. New modern hob-less shower.

We used a young local bathroom renovator (from Bateau Bay). He had specialist plumber, electrician, tiler, subcontracting.
Took about two to three weeks from memory (wife will know details). We did the painting (with mould treated paint).

You are welcome to come have a look and discuss if you like.

Good luck with it

[Shano592 (Shane)]

Hi Mike,

3 years ago, we renovated our bathroom, literally from the floor to ceiling.

I will try to find the name of the guy who did it. He lives in Bateau Bay, I think, so he's pretty close by to you. I'll PM it to you once I find it.

All up it cost us $15k, but our budget was higher than that, and we went with some high-end pieces (travertine tiles, 400Ltr tub, 1500mm vanity).

For the most-part, their work was excellent. Definitely the best tradies I have used since I have moved here. Full, written quote, registered and insured, and they guaranteed their work, though we have never had to call them back. And they cleaned up after themselves!

EDIT: Ha, Allan ... I'm wondering if we used the same guys, now.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

When looking at tiles, one mistake we made was getting very grippy ones. They are great when wet and none of us has ever slipped in there, but they are utterly impossible to keep clean or make clean. They looked awesome for about 24 hours after I applied the grout (Which was a PITA for the same reason, they really grabbed the grout in the surface) and then started to look grubby and have done so ever since. Sugar soap and a scrubbing brush gets them lookine nearly as good as new but it is only a day or two and they are grubby again.

Oh, and make sure any tiles you buy have rounded edges everywhere. No matter how level you set them when laying them they will move around a little before the adhesive goes off, ours have square edges and corners and while they look good, you can feel the tinest difference in level between adjacent tiles underfoot. rounded or bevelled edges would eliminate that.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by iceman

Thanks for the feedback so far guys.

I hadn't thought about a different 'design' requiring re-plumbing or wiring. For that reason I think it'd be best to keep as close to original design as possible.

New tiles (up to the ceiling), new vanity/cabinet, new toilet, new shower/fixtures, will make it feel like new I guess

Re-use all the existing connections. Buy quality tapware that will last, including flush mechanism. Get the water proofing and floor done by a professional. In order: waterproofing membrane, then mesh + cement to work out all the inclines. Water needs to run into the drains not out of the door so slopes are critical. You can do the walls if you feel like it. For the shower tray get a copper tray with welded edges and proper plasterboard in the shower. Then make a step out of ebo. Make sure the plasterboard overlaps the tray but is off at least 50mm from the bottom of the tray so it never gets wet by capilarity. The corner wall of the shower also needs a plastic angle and the walls of the shower need to be waterproofed. Under the copper tray needs to be waterproofed too. If your kids are young and pee in the shower waterproof the top as well so it doesn't corrode. The shower screens + door can be fitted on top of the step later on with tempered glass and aluminium framing. Any tradie can do that for $500.00 or so.

[Paul Haese]

If you're not doing any modifications to existing, then get a tiler and a carpenter.

Get three quotes from each trade. Ask for references and any photo's of previous work. Ask for licenses too. Don't use anyone without a license. You will get a half arsed job if you do. Licensed guys have to comply to the building code.

Putting taps and stuff like that on is easy. Just follow the directions. Cabinets can be put in by the carpenter. New shower screen can be done by the tiler or you can get someone like a glass installer who will do that for you. Tile companies also install shower screens.

30k sounds like a real lot. 10-15k is still pretty high for but most likely correct for your state and location. SA 9K would get you a 15K bathroom by the sound of it.

Best of luck.

[gregbradley]

There should be no particle board in the floor of a bathroom. That was a building error. I have never seen that on the hundreds of building sites I have been on. They are almost always fibre cement sheeting where the wet areas are.

So step 1 would be a demo and remove the incorrect particle board and as suggested you better check how extensive the water damage is - how far has it travelled.

Tiling is something I have done myself several times and is not that hard really. The main thing is to have good tools and to make sure you level the tiles so some are not sitting up. They are usually easy to cut so do your layout then do a smallish area and the little plastic spacers to get the gaps even. Doing around a drain may take a bit so google that or look at how they are done in bathroom displays in tiles shops.

Reuse existing plumbing and electricals if you can. You can get a nice glass shower these days for $900. I saw one just the other day at a glass shop in McGraths Hill.

Have fun with it. It can be fun.

Greg.

[MattT]

As it's been mentioned by a few 30K for a bathroom rip and replace is pretty standard where I live….in Melbourne's wealthy Eastern suburbs.
Tradies 'add' an bit on top cause they think everyone is loaded….which most are around here.
I call it 'overpaid' for what they do for a living. Most are lawyers and doctors, or worse still medical specialists….so the rest of us cop it too. Any where else would probably be half the price.
I do my own renovations thanks, as I reckon I do as good a job as most trades, but it takes time. It's not hard…tiling is easy as is carpentry….I draw the line at roofing though and guttering, but don't get me started on kitchens….
Naturally I have done my own
Matt

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

We spent about $30k getting our bathroom redone a couple of years ago. It was done by the same company that did the kitchen 8 years ago, for about $26k. By choosing quality fittings (eg Caeserstone, Grohe and Smeg) and whitish cabinets both rooms look as good as the day they were finished, and it really helped getting a good price for the house when we sold it last month.

Since both plumbing and electrics have to be done by a licensed installer it was the simplest way to go. In both cases we bough all the fittings before the plans were completed and it all went straight in.

We'll probably be calling on the same company to do some renovations to the kitchen and bathroom in the new place.

[Paddy de Klerk]

Hi Mike, Hasn't ben mentioned yet ,but…. a builder had dealings with over a few years insisted on putting down a copper tray on every bathroom he ever did. From his point of view to have to go back & rework in the event of a membrane failing didn't bear thinking about. The added expense far out weighs the worst scenario. Cheers Paddy.