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Old 28-06-2025, 08:04 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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M16 Eagle Nebula SHO (Tilted coma corrector)

I took advantage of some clear Winter nights in late June with a new moon to capture M16 Eagle Nebula with my 2600MM for the first time under B8 skies in Sydney. I’ve previously imaged this target many times before with my 2600MC OSC and prior to that with my DSLR nearly 9 years ago.*

The only disappointing part of this project was that I must have re tightened the focuser on the side thumbscrew between one of the filters on one night ?? This caused my TS GPU Coma*corrector to tilt slighting on one side in the optical plane causing each filters Star field to be slightly out of alignment on the LHS of the FOV when composing an SHO image. The tiny faint stars in*the LH corners and towards the centre were double stars touching each other. The medium and larger stars were affected as well but not as severe. The stars in each processed image ( Ha , Oiii and Sii ) for each filter data set on their own were perfect , pin point to edge of field. But combine them or compose them in an SHO composite and you have this star anomaly. Very frustrating to say the least. I need to be mindful about touching the side thumbscrew on the focuser.
Anyway I decided not to waste the quality data so processed them as normal and cropped out quite a bit of the LHS perimeter plus used the “Heal module” in Startools to remove or hide most of the double stars to produce a type of semi Starless image with just larger stars and faint tiny stars.**Not ideal but at least it’s not a disaster and a waist of clear sky time. I’m not a real fan of starless images so tried to retain as many of the unaffected larger stars and tiny faint ones. The rest were horrible.
It does prove one thing this TS GPU coma corrector is a quality bit of kit as all three filter data sets when processed individually had pin point stars to edge of frame , even though the corrector wasn’t sitting perfectly level with the optical
plane. It did its job !!

Bortle 8 City Suburban location
New Moon period*
Seeing conditions variable over the 4 nights*( windy , heavy dew , dry )
Telescope 8” f5 Klaus Helmerich Carbon Fibre Newtonian ( Self Built )*focal length 1050mm
Mount Skywatcher EQ6-R Pro*
Imaging camera ZWO2600MM cooled to -10C , Gain 100 HCG*
TS Optics GPU coma corrector with Beamtech 15mm spacing ring
Antlia 3nm filters*
PHD2 Multistar guiding ( variable 0.40 to 0.50 arc sec and 0.70 to 0.80 arc sec total on different nights)
Orion 60mm guide scope with helical focuser*
ZWO EFW 7 x 2”*
ZWO EAF focuser*
Tracking and Goto EQMOD and Stellarium*
Aquisition and Capture , APT*
Ha 137 x 2 min dithered subs*
Oiii 141*x 2 min dithered subs
Sii 147 x 2 min dithered subs
Full Calibration Suite*
Darks from Library*
Flats for Ha , Oiii and Sii
Flat Darks for Ha , Oiii and Sii
Total integration 14 hours*

Subs reviewed in ASTAP*
Subs analysed, calibrated , stacked and aligned in ASTAP*
Post processed in Startools version 1.8 via Compose module*using Luminance / Color :**L + Synthetic L from RGB , RGB.
Used an SHO preset in the Colour module and adjusted to taste.*

Astrobin links for full resolution…..,

https://www.astrobin.com/full/p7fe51/0/

https://www.astrobin.com/full/464tf6/0/

https://www.astrobin.com/full/mw9u39/0/

Attached images in IIS 200Kb

NB: These images are presented as documentary astrophotography and have not use any AI enhanced or AI assisted technology during post processing.

Thanks for Looking
Comments most welcome*
Martin
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (M16 Eagle Nebula SHO Starless rev 3 Giga Crop.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (M16 Eagle Nebula SHO Starless rev 3 Mega Crop.jpg)
178.8 KB43 views
Click for full-size image (M16 Eagle Nebula SHO Starless rev 3 Super Crop.jpg)
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  #2  
Old 28-06-2025, 11:24 AM
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strongmanmike (Michael)
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Quote:
Thanks for Looking
Comments most welcome*
Martin
Well, ok since you asked..firslty, you have managed to get out of trouble there nicely Martone re the corrector movement, yaaay a relief I am sure Then, also, there is certainly some good feature detail showing for sure, eg. in that main pillar, many of the main famous fine features can be discerned, so that's great. For me though, there is a certain embossed look to many of the features/details across the image, particularly evident in the top left area, those wiggly dust lanes don't look quite natural..? I imagine this has resulted from the method of application of decon/sharpening? I also feel that some extra contrast introduced across the image would lift it too.

Again, all in all, a good Eagle for sure, even if you ignore my feedback completely

Mike
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Old 28-06-2025, 06:46 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Mike,
Nothing gets past the Strongman !!
In regard to that “embossed” look , firstly it’s not caused by Startools SV Decon module or the Sharpening module. More likely it’s the Flux module which I’ve only recently used twice. Obviously I was a bit too heavy handed with it especially when you’re seeing limited.
This unique ( non AI ) algorithm pin points features in an image that has recurring fractal patterns eg: Gas flows and Filaments etc… then through flux prediction , can plausibly predict missing detail in seeing limited data.

It’s an extremely powerful tool and in the hands of a bloke who images at 1050mm under B8 skies with average seeing, once you crop and zoom in close to those pillars as if your imaging at 3000mm , the Flux module can be very enticing to the point where you loose focus on real detail. It can get out of control !!!

Very good pick up Mike !!

In regards to the dust lanes and dark structures, the Sharpening module does tend to coalesce those wispy structures if you push too hard. At defaults it works perfectly Ok.

Agree a tad more Contrast would reduce that residual subtle glare

However, after being totally peed off about the issue with the tilt in the coma corrector, I’m so grateful in salvaging the data and processing some sort of half respectable image.

At least the colour is typical HST / SHO palette ( golden hues , blue hues and cyan hues )

Thanks for your analysis and comments

Attached is just the Ha image ( in synthetic luminance) showing all the stars pin point to edge of frame
Attached is a snap shot in the corner of the image after resultant composed SHO image ( double stars ) mainly on the LHS of the image after composing SHO data sets

Thanks for your comments
Much appreciated

Martone
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Click for full-size image (M16 Eagle Nebula Ha only Synthetic Luminance.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (IMG_8376.jpg)
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Old 28-06-2025, 09:21 PM
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Anth10 (Anthony M)
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Martin,
Ignoring the pesky imperfections, I’m impressed with the high quality you’ve achieved particularly with the pillars as mentioned. The colour represents all the hallmarks of the classic SHO representation we are accustomed to seeing with some of the best images of the Eagle Neb.
I’m sure you will have another shot at the title with this most amazing DSO but you should be content with your effort none the less.
Top work.
Anth.
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  #5  
Old 29-06-2025, 08:59 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Originally Posted by Anth10 View Post
Martin,
Ignoring the pesky imperfections, I’m impressed with the high quality you’ve achieved particularly with the pillars as mentioned. The colour represents all the hallmarks of the classic SHO representation we are accustomed to seeing with some of the best images of the Eagle Neb.
I’m sure you will have another shot at the title with this most amazing DSO but you should be content with your effort none the less.
Top work.
Anth.
Thanks Anthony,
To me tight round stars make an Astro image hence why I was bit disappointed but overall very happy to fashion a half decent image out of the hiccup.
Thanks for your kind comments
Thanks to Mike , I might have another go and apply a local contrast to tone down that subtle glare in the central region.
See how it goes

Cheers
Martin
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Old 29-06-2025, 04:57 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Took Strongman Mikes advice and reprocessed the image with more local contrast and backed off the Fractal Flux to default settings ( 25% ) rather than throttled to 40%.
Everything else is the same as previous or close to it

This latest image definitely has slightly more contrast , detail and overall fidelity.

Astrobin links for full resolution….,

https://www.astrobin.com/full/464tf6/C/

https://www.astrobin.com/full/mw9u39/B/

Thanks for looking

Comments welcome

Martin
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Click for full-size image (M16 Eagle Nebula SHO Semi Starless rev 1A Super Crop.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (M16 Eagle Nebula SHO Semi Starless rev 1A Mega Crop.jpeg)
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Old 29-06-2025, 11:00 PM
Leo.G (Leo)
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Wow, that's some stunning work Martin!
I'm thinking you either have clearer skies than I'm seeing but more likely not the sub zero temps that are encouraging me to sit in my warm lounge room and watch TV. I've been a little off colour and not enjoying the cold, I usually love it.

Then again my images ain't ever going to look like yours!
My colour blindness (red/green) seems to add an extra layer of issues when trying to process images, thankfully my son has good vision.
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Old 30-06-2025, 10:44 AM
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Very sharp and detailed. Those tilted stars may be able to be aligned using CCDStack and one of the registering methods that rotate, scale and align.

Tilt is a pest.

A tricky one to process as its such a large dynamic range. To my eye it looks overexposed slightly that washes out some contrast and makes the O111 areas less blue.

These Newts are proving to be quite the resolution machines if ungainly in form.

Greg.
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Old 30-06-2025, 03:10 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Originally Posted by Leo.G View Post
Wow, that's some stunning work Martin!
I'm thinking you either have clearer skies than I'm seeing but more likely not the sub zero temps that are encouraging me to sit in my warm lounge room and watch TV. I've been a little off colour and not enjoying the cold, I usually love it.

Then again my images ain't ever going to look like yours!
My colour blindness (red/green) seems to add an extra layer of issues when trying to process images, thankfully my son has good vision.
Thanks Leo,
Much appreciated
Apart from the tilt issue with my coma corrector ( my fault ) the image turned out ok for semi starless rendition.
I hate the cold too , that’s why I image from my warm lounge room and watch TV with a cup of hot chocolate
All you need is a 10m Cat5e cable ( $15 ) and Windows pro version on your Lappy and Nuk which has Remote Desktop.
Been imaging like that for nearly 5 years now ( same down the coast at my Dome )
The only time I’m outside in the cold during the Winter months is when I’m visually observing with my 12” Goto Dob down south.
I much prefer long Winter nights than short Summer nights
And yes the weather has been ordinary this year so far. Late April cloudy and May was an almost totally clouded out month . June came good with about 7 or 8 clear nights.
East coast low is going to drop 100mm on Sydney tomorrow to Thursday, we don’t need anymore rain !!

Cheers
Martin
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Old 30-06-2025, 03:30 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
Very sharp and detailed. Those tilted stars may be able to be aligned using CCDStack and one of the registering methods that rotate, scale and align.

Tilt is a pest.

A tricky one to process as its such a large dynamic range. To my eye it looks overexposed slightly that washes out some contrast and makes the O111 areas less blue.

These Newts are proving to be quite the resolution machines if ungainly in form.

Greg.
Thanks Greg
I tried the Repair module in Startools to correct the double stars ( their not so much tilted but doubled due to one of the 3 stacked sets being affected by coma corrector tilt , my hunch is the Oiii set ) but this algorithm is only successful on a singular star out of shape due to tracking , optics and so on … I don’t think any non AI stacking algorithm could correct 2 perfectly round stars side by side separated by a gap of anywhere between by 8 to 20 pixels which is the case here.
I’ve got Han from ASTAP looking at the issue to see if he can tweak the Alignment algorithm in the Stacking program but I suspect not.

I did apply more local contrast to this bright region but a little more may have helped.
Strangely enough I did crop nearly half the native size of the image to show the pillars in more detail which should result in a dimmer image as pixels are reduced , but it didn’t ??
I’ve never imaged with a refractor , always used Newts , sort of comfortable with Newts , all those back end accessories on refractors scare me , Newts are simple and do the job , even cheap ones like my mine ( I build my own carbon Newts and never spent over $1800 )

Thanks Again
Martin
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Old 30-06-2025, 03:33 PM
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strongmanmike (Michael)
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I like your tenacity Martone, always experimenting and always interesting to read your explanations of what you do, I love seeing people enjoying our hobby who are willing to share their exploits, great stuff

Mike
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Old 30-06-2025, 05:21 PM
Leo.G (Leo)
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Quote:
Apart from the tilt issue with my coma corrector ( my fault ) the image turned out ok for semi starless rendition.
I hate the cold too , that’s why I image from my warm lounge room and watch TV with a cup of hot chocolate
All you need is a 10m Cat5e cable ( $15 ) and Windows pro version on your Lappy and Nuk which has Remote Desktop.
Been imaging like that for nearly 5 years now ( same down the coast at my Dome )

Once I get my pier set up it will make that feasible. I have the hole dug, crushed blue metal and concrete dust in the bottom (to prevent the clay destroying the pad, it's all clay and on a semi steep slope).
My problem has been getting enough clear weather to do the concreting, I haven't yet had aggregate delivered (sand and gravel mix) because of the slope and the weather, the sand will wash straight out if it rains and it's constantly overcast. Everything is basically ready to go other than that. Fourteen bags of cement and aggregate is actually cheap to do the job.

Throw in I never know how I'll feel when I wake up (migraines day and night for over 50 years (daily)) and that very much defines what I do and don't achieve.
Headache not so bad today which is rare but had a tooth pulled this afternoon and the more I move the more I bleed.
I will get to it, it's really not a lot of work but my day always starts late, doesn't help.
My camera isn't mono and my OSC is just a small Player one Neptune (IMX178 model) so I'm never going to get what you get but once pier is in I will play with my full frame DSLR.
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Old 02-07-2025, 01:25 PM
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Retrograde (Pete)
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Nice colours and detail, Martin.

Shame about the star issues with the tilted corrector. I'm still struggling with a small amount of residual tilt with my imaging setups although I've managed to improve things somewhat.
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Old 03-07-2025, 07:19 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Nice colours and detail, Martin.

Shame about the star issues with the tilted corrector. I'm still struggling with a small amount of residual tilt with my imaging setups although I've managed to improve things somewhat.
Thanks Pete,
At least I know how it happened and can correct for next project
I’m heading down south to my Dome on the 14th for 10 days so hopefully clear skies in time for new moon
Cheers
Martin
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Old 03-07-2025, 07:58 AM
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Good on you for sticking with a difficult project Martin. I appreciate that we have a personal relationship with our hard earned data so if we can pull something out of the hat then all is good. You’ve landed in a good place with this one so you should be happy with all of your efforts.
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Old 03-07-2025, 05:05 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Originally Posted by Ryderscope View Post
Good on you for sticking with a difficult project Martin. I appreciate that we have a personal relationship with our hard earned data so if we can pull something out of the hat then all is good. You’ve landed in a good place with this one so you should be happy with all of your efforts.
Thanks Rodney,
Just happy to salvage a half decent image out of the hiccup
I had Han from ASTAP look at the data to see if he wave his magic wand and align the data sets but Astigmatism between data sets is beyond most non AI stacking and alignment algorithms.
I won’t be fiddling around with the focuser / coma corrector once set next project , learned my lesson
Cheers
Martin
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