Nagler T6's on special at Bintel

[MortonH]

Noticed that all T6 Naglers are on special until the end of the year. However, the price has only been reduced by $30 to $449 so not a huge saving, and less of a discount than Tele Vue's annual 10% off sale.

EDIT:

In the US they have been reduced by $40, which drops the price from $310 to $270 (a reduction of 12.9%).

Bintel's reduction of A$30 drops the price from A$479 to A$449 (a reduction of 6.3%).

Hmmm...

[AG Hybrid]

They probably don't move many of them. Hence why they didn't pass the full discount, which would hurt them.
I'm yet to meet anyone in the field who owns any type 6's. With 12mm of stated ER, I'm not surprised.
Also, if your willing to spend ~$450 for an eyepiece, you may as well pony up for the equivalent focal length Delos, which is sensibly, optically perfect. With only 10 degree AFOV less with 20mm ER I couldn't see why you wouldn't pass over the type 6.

[Larryp]

I have 4 of the type 6, and find them a superb eyepiece-I find the eye relief adequate, and it never bothers me. :)

[MortonH]

Agree that the Delos are better, but the small size and weight of the Naglers is still a factor for some. All but one of my eyepieces weigh between 150g and 285g, which means they are light enough to use in all my scopes without balance problems. The 12mm eye relief isn't an issue for me, although for serious observing over extended periods (e.g. a week at Astrofest) something with long eye relief would be more relaxing on the eyes. So I might look at replacing the 14mm Delos I sold, or possibly get the 12mm, since 12-14mm seems to be the sweet spot for a lot of deep sky objects in my Newt.

[The Mekon]

As this is the eyepiece discussions thread................
I agree with both Laurie and Morton. I find the T6 a really good eyepiece, and appreciate the small size, and don't really need 20mm of eye relief. I have a Delos 17.3 which I reckon is better than the Naglers, but I dislike the huge eye lens, which when operating at home, reflects any incidental light from street lights to the smallest amount of house light escaping from behind the curtains. The Delos comes into its own when out at my dark sky site, just love the 72 degree field which I don't have to move my eyeball to see all of.

[AG Hybrid]

You see Morton? This is why we need horse blinders for astronomers lol.:P

[Profiler]

Yep - one of the upsides you can get away with when you are a business that holds a monopoly over the market (i.e. 'us') in being the sole Australian vendor of Televue

I think the real question isn't so much debating whether the Nagler T6 eyepiece is any good etc - as clearly they are an excellent eyepice design etc.

The real question is why would anyone buy a genuine Televue T6 Nagler anymore when Explore Scientific produce a range of clones which optically are identical (as best as I have ever been able to garner) and yet at less than half the price - with or without any Televue sale price:D

[AG Hybrid]

This is also a good point. Didn't want to make this point though. Lots of Televue fans around here.

[MortonH]

Not quite identical optically but very, very close.

QC, on the other hand, not so close. As far as I know ES haven't fixed the flare issue on the 82° line, which makes them unusable for observing things like occultations. This is an irritating deficiency in my 4.7mm and 6.7mm which are otherwise very good.

[AG Hybrid]

Flare issue aye? You might have to elaborate on that one Mort. I haven't seen this is my 6.7mm. I observed the Saturn occultation just fine with it.
A bit of research from reviews and user testimony returns very little information. Wouldn't you agree a flaring issue of an eyepiece making them unusable for visual observation would be more widely reported?

What scope were you using when you were attempting this if its OK to ask?

[MortonH]

I mentioned the flare issue in this thread last year:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=123827

It's been well documented on CN. I think it was often described as "glare" rather than flare. ES even sent me some felt circles to attach to the bottom of the eyepiece. Unfortunately this didn't help.

Maybe saying they are "unusable" on the moon is a bit harsh, but I found it bad enough that I wouldn't use them for that purpose. Fine for planets though.

I was using my SV80ED.

[PlanetMan]

FWIW I found the Explore Scientific eyepieces to be excellent as well and can't understand why anyone would spend the extra for a Televue.

I accept you would get a Televue if there wasn't an ES equal (eg 3-6 Nagler zoom). However I had a 13mm T6 Nagler and it was a brilliant eyepiece! Only problem was I also got a ES 14mm which was just as good and barely cost a $120 2nd hand!

Maybe others can see differences and know something special and what to look for but I suspect the other 85% of people would be happy with an ES. I only hope ES prices don't creep up. I suspect the only reason we have a Televue special on T6 Naglers is due to the Explore Scientific range.

Bottom line is monopolies are very bad things for consumers and whenever possible people should try to break them - this translates to giving support to Explore Scientific wherever possible

Finally I have no relationship with either company - in a choice between a Televue or Explore Scientific I pick a Takahashi LE every time:rofl:

[MortonH]

The monopoly in this scenario is Bintel, not Tele Vue, so I don't see that as a valid reason to support ES.

You might find this interesting. I asked VTI Optics a few months ago why almost all of their ES stuff is shown as out of stock. They told me that ES doesn't seem to be interested in serving such a small market as Australia and won't give them stock. So ES loses my support in that regard.

[Profiler]

Folks might want to check whether this is still current but I believe Explore Scientific is having a 10% off everything sale right now in all the US Astro stores.

The exchange rate isn't particularly attractive but now is the time buy if this is what you want.

[Profiler]

Actually - what doesn't make sense is the claim by a retail store that a manufacturer isn't interested in serving such a small market and hence why the store is supposedly out of stock all the time. Yet - at the same time this store continues to advertise itself as a vendor of those products.

To quote a classic sci fi tv show "Danger Will Robinson! - Danger Danger":lol:

[AG Hybrid]

Ahh yes glare. I have read of that issue previously. Light scatter caused by a lack of a baffle. It didn't effect all versions though. The first generation certainly had its issues. Doesn't effect the 100 degree line though. The 9mm 100 is my preferred weapon of choice for the moon.

Ill be the first to admit the 82 degree ES line has flaws. But at 1/3rd or even 1/4th the price of the Nagler line you should expect that.

[AG Hybrid]

Also, I bought all my ES eyepieces from the US. Only my Delos and Zoom were bought here.

[MortonH]

A shiny baffle is inexcusable at any price point in my opinion. Doing it properly would have cost a lot less than the fancy boxes they put their eyepieces in! :lol:

Then again, the Nagler T6 eyecup is too short in my opinion, which I would also consider a design flaw that hasn't been corrected in many years. So nothing is perfect.

Now that ES has increased their prices to more realistic levels they're about 50% of TV prices. Still a great bargain, obviously, unless you live in Australia and want to buy a new one. :sadeyes:

[AG Hybrid]

You know. When I got my ES 24mm 68 the 1 1/4" barrel inside was unpainted. Shiny steel. So that's a thing. Was pretty angry about that.
Also I think the eyecup is too short imo which makes stray light from relatively bright sources from the side reflect on the outer lens easily. That's another thing.
I ended up unscrewing the flange from a 15mm GSO superview which was properly painted and screwing it onto the ES 24mm. Turned out to be a great eyepiece after that if you controlled light from the exterior sources.

Would still buy ES eyepieces again though. I still want either a 20mm 100 or 25mm 100. I do thoroughly enjoy the immersion of their 100 degree eyepieces.

[MortonH]

So you're saying that if I move up to 100° eyepieces it'll all be fine? :lol:

[SkyWatch]

Interesting discussion. :)

I have the T6 13mm, and it is my favourite eyepiece (despite the 12mm eye-relief!). It is sharp right to the edge, even in my f5 scope, and it doesn't cause balance problems: a great size. I hadn't heard of the ES ones when I bought it: and that was back when the exchange rate was around 1:1, and Televue had a special going; so it ended up being (if I remember rightly) around $270-300: not much more than the ES14 would cost me delivered from the US right at the moment...

I also have the ES 100 20mm (I discovered ES a couple of years ago, and they were having a special too!). Also an excellent eyepiece, and stacks up very well against the TV 21mm equivalent (I have tried them both, head to head). I don't understand why it is so cheap compared to the rest of the ES100 line (their 25mm version would cost currently around $A1300 delivered here: about the same as the 21mm Ethos if you bought it at Bintel...). However, personally I find the 100 degree field is too much: and I can't see it all without jamming my eye right up to it and turning my head. It supposedly has 14.5mm eye relief, but for me it doesn't seem as much as the T6. Plus it is enormous!

I found ES great to deal with, and very responsive to questions.

The Delos line sound great: if they had been around a few years back I might not have bought my Nagler...

[AG Hybrid]

YMMV Mort. I think I've seen and even used your setup at Katoomba? I believe you'll be cursing at all the new balance issues you will have until you get around it. When looking at low objects I have two 1/2 kilo weights attached with magnets to help keep everything civilized.

I don't have any tracking equipment so watching the objects gently glide across the sky without constantly nudging is most endearing. The more time I can relax at the eyepiece the more immersive it becomes. But, you know all about that stuff.

Even though I am 30 now. I have tested vision of 20/20. I have no problem taking in the view or moving my head around to look around the view.

Regarding your question if you'll be fine? With the ES 100 line you can rest assured that your getting a top quality product that went through proper QC.

RE: The ES 25. Yep hell of an expensive eyepiece but I believe its worth it. A little story to share. I did a test some months back at Wiruna with some of Duncan's eyepieces and the ES Coma corrector to see if I could figure out the correct settings to clean them up.

The eyepieces were the 40mm TMB Paragon, Pentax 40mm XW, Pentax 30mm XW and in spur of the moment 25mm ES 100.

Previously I had tried the ES 25 before I got a CC. I honestly felt it was almost unusable at F5. Noticeable field curvature and lots of coma. I thought it was a novelty eyepiece but nothing to really consider actually buying with my own money. It looked great however in Dunk's C11 HD. But, that's F10. It was impressive in that scope but painful to use in mine.
Anyway, started out with the TMB 40. A nice eyepiece at F10 but appalling at F5. Massive vignetting, staggering amount of coma. Totally unusable. Even using the CC at several settings didn't help it. It flattened the field and corrected some of the coma but no getting around the vignetting. Similar story for the 40XW. It did however respond well to the CC. Cleaned up greatly with some minor field curvature. Still vignetted heavily. Looked superb at F10. I can understand why its a sorted after eyepiece on the used market.The 30XW was pretty poor at F5. Responded very well with the CC. Cleaned up nicely. Very flat and mostly pin point to the edge of its 70 degree AFOV. Was very much enjoying it.
All the time I was comparing it to the ES 82 degree which was used with the CC. The ES CC does a great job on the eyepiece. But, there is minor vignetting on the far edge of that eyepiece when used with the CC.
In the comparison between those 4 I have it to the Pentax 30mm XW. I'm sure anyone reading this who owned a Pentax 30XW would not be surprised by that outcome. Through out this exercise I was regularly switching between the eyepieces to compare and contrast. Probably spent over an hour on it at this point.

Then I remembered Dunk still has that ES 25 100. So decided to give it a go. Didn't bother adjusting any setting on the CC either. Heaviest eyepiece I've ever used. I also didn't have the clairvoyance to bring my counter weights for that trip either. So, anything below 70 degrees in the sky I had to hold the scope up :lol:. The next 15 seconds undid all the work of the previous hour. After coming to focus on the Tarantula nebula and surround star clusters in the LMC I specifically remember yelling in the night across our side of the observing field "Duncan! I think the ES 25 just won it all!" Duncan described it as if the ES CC and the ES 25 were made for each other. 100 degree AFOV sensibly perfectly corrected from edge to edge. We were astonished. Jason and Ed were there too. I almost threw the Pentax eyepieces back at Duncan and told him to put them back in their case and leave them in there. I believe the 25mm had an TFOV of around 1.6 degrees? It was such an incredibly busy field to look at. Nebula, star clusters, some small globs.
Probably in my top 3 moments in this hobby. The other 2 was last June when we were able to view Saturn in 10/10 seeing for a few hours at Katoomba, and when I first spotted Triton the largest moon of Neptune from my house in Sydney.

I have coveted that eyepiece ever since.

[MortonH]

Nice story, Adrian. Food for thought (in the future)