The amatuer/non-expert helpline thread

[J.A.L]

:doh: I just typed a big post and wasn't signed in and lost it, it took me half an hour to write to get the info and research I did in. I registered just to ask help. This is so hard.

:help:

Now I'll just have to be briefer, wish I could get my last post back, you prob like this one better anyway it will be huge and I know people won't often read these large posts!!! I feel I have to explain though.

Basically I have no idea about this. I want to buy my husband a 30th Birthday present. I saved for years for a previous combined gift so he could chose his telescope, he got a:

Meade LX200R 10 inch Advance Ritchey-Chretien with GPS & AutoStar II Hand Controller.

He is much more knowledgeable than me and is in to and understands the technical side a lot more, so I imagine I frustrate people being here when you guys can all talk together and understand each other and you'd say something to me and I would barely understand you. I would be the daftest most likely in this whole forum so I apologise.

I'd like to get a Barlow and 1 or 2 eyepieces, not interested in filters at this stage, he only has what came with the telescope and is eager to use his knowledge, interest and talent. I want to give a decent gift, nothing beginnerer but a quality brand, not cheapest either, definantly rather it not need upgrading or never get replaced than go cheaper now and need to do it in a few years. I'd spend anywhere up to $500 even give or take, but would like to keep it around $300 if possible. I'm getting online to keep it a surprise. I've went to Bintel, Space and Astronomy, Astro Opticals and mostly spent time and research to send an email to Star Optics for advice as this is where we got the telescope from being more local to us. Some help and feedback from you guys would be great, I was thinking a list of what you think best, or what you would buy from your experience or want to get as a dream gift from someone?.

I spent last two days reading most of this forum, I get that opinions are personal on brands in particular, I've read disheartening things on Meade but I also am wise enough to know it is always going to be personal, some luck in the draw and good research and desicion in the first place. My husband picked Meade as a brand he thought was good after his research at the time a few years back.

I took notes which I won't say all in here now, I just had to try to learn. List I started is either of these:

Meade's
14mm S4000 UWA (leanign towards this as opinions broadly on S5000 seem to be it is lacking in quality and this is much better for the money and feature differences between this and the new models in the S5000 range?)
14mm S5000 2UWA (someone mentioned 8.8mm better, I think it was to do with this eyepiece I was planning to make sure I read specs on each eyepiece online to see if I spotted 8.8)
Series 4000 2X APO Barlow (I really think a Barlow is a must just need to decide on which one? Like idea of Meade since telescope is that but maybe I'm just being scared, this model sounds great though)

I also read about coating on glass is important, and protective coating needs to be on all glass parts, I am learning about 1,2,3 or 4 air glass surfaces. I actually even resorted to reading well trying to read, having to skim over parts of a 61 page article "Evolution of the Astronomical Eyepiece" :eyepop:

I did want to get him maybe a Barlow, an Extra Wide and something to see planets and that would work while tracking. I heard him mention an eyepiece for when he was tracking, at the time I didn't think much of it until I realised the array of options and how hard it would be. All brands fit too I thought I'd be limited to what would match our telescope therefore easier to research and chose but I was wrong.

I also noted broardly the following are reccommended: TeleVue 32mm Plossl, 24 or 27mm Panoptic, 30mm Pentax XW and a 13mm LVW (which I think was a Vixen, you guys abbreviate a lot since you know what you are talking about when you talk to each other). I think I'd not get a Celestron, no particualr reason I'm just trying to cut my brand options. Naglar I couldn't get a feel on, seems too advanced if that makes sense from reading what has been discussed, seems harder for me to work out and choose in that brand without someone's who's done the leg work. I always thought I'd get Meade atleast in the main thing like the Barlow but I don't want to be close minded either. I did like the idea of only getting Japanese or US made but unless that is stated on the website I find it hard to talk to sales reps without seeming stupid and then not being able to keep up. I did do up a few emails I'm waiting on prices back and I think I did OK from researching.

I tried to take note of comments from people with same as us or what I thought was similar telescope to us. Someone who uses an 18inch now lets his son use his old 10inch so I found his opinion valuable since he compared them in a post.

So I understand it is a lot to ask. I get there is obviously presonal preference involved and dependant on use and desire. So I can say basically I'd love a list of a handful you would suggest, would be great people who use same telescope or had extensive experience with one ofcourse but I value any help and appreciate it. A great start for his telescope ina simple list that I could just price and order from a website would be great. For seeing planets, for seeing stars and galaxies and tracking and for seeing as far as possible. Obviously clarity and least destortion, sharp vision, he dosn't wear glasses but is a computer programmer so eye relief is important but I know he would sacrifice that a little for clearer or sharper quality, he'd just rest and go back to it. I have noticed people say if you want to look for extended periods of time you sacrifice some softness for the relief? :shrug:

Now that I've typed this same subject for an hour I'm just going to cross my fingers I've been understood and try not to feel so annoyed I lost my first post.

Thankyou very much if you can help and in advance for your time in comiling a simple list for what I was trying to explain, it is appreciated.

[erick]

Hi J.A.L., and thanks for registering.

Sorry you lost your first post. Sometimes, if the site or internet is hiccuping, I make a habit of copying all the text to clipboard from time to time, while I'm writing a long post, so I can put it into Word or something and save it if I lose contact!

The experts will soon advise, but I suspect a little more information on what your husband enjoys viewing may help. Splitting double stars is one thing, looking at detail on planets is another, looking an star clusters is another, looking at nebulae is another. What does he talk about when he tells you what he has enjoyed looking at?

Eric :)

[Louwai]

A wife who puts so much efort into her husbands hobby. Are you sure you like the husband you have. I'm certainly available.

& just to put in my 2c worth in. I have an 8" SCT with just 3 eye pieces. William optics 28mm UWAN + LVW 17mm + LVW 5mm. I also have a Willian optics 2 x Barlow. all 2" & used with 2" diagonal & 2" focuser.

[davewaldo]

Hi JAL,

You seem to be on the right track so far with your research... just to help narrow things down, Does your husband wear eye glasses when he uses his telescope?

Dave.

[janoskiss]

Wow! You're the dream wife every man on this forum would want to have!

I'd recommend you look elsewhere other than Meade. Just because the telescope is a Meade, and it is a damn good one too!, does not mean the EPs need to be. The Meade Apo barlow in particular is not a good one for the money and the UWA 5000s (certainly the 14mm) fall well short of much of the competition. In barlows I'd look at Televue barlow or 2.5x powermate and the Orion Deluxes (my personal faves with the best contrast). Deluxes are long barlows tho so you'd need to find out if they work well with the RC telescope.

In EPs, I'd get him Pentax XWs unless his heart is set on ultra wides (80+ degree field of view) in which case Naglers are an obvious choice.

Most importantly: For general purpose observing, and deep sky in particular, you'd need an EP near the 20mm FL given the scope has a focal ratio of f/10. My faves would be 20mm Pentax XW and 20mm Type 5 Nagler. Perhaps 22mm Type 4 if eye relief of the Type 5 is not enough.

For planets something in the 8-12mm range is good. Planetary EPs need not be widefields with a tracking scope. The Pentax XFs 12 and 8.5mm would do very nicely here as would a 12mm UO HD orthoscopic (Frontier Optics). Vixen LVs are great if you want more flexibility in choice of focal length and long eye relief.

EP choices esp at the top end become very much of personal preference so it's hard to make definite recommendations for someone else, but I'll do it anyway:

20mm Nagler Type 5
12mm Pentax XF
8.5mm Pentax XF

These EPs I have used and loved and they are simply brilliant. And no barlow. The 8.5mm will yield plenty of magnification so you won't need one. If he is really power hungry could go a 6mm TMB Planetary also but I personally would not bother because you'll already see everything the scope can show you at lower powers.

In addition you'd be looking at one more low power eyepiece some time in the future for taking in bigger chunks of sky. From all reports TMB Paragon 40mm seems like a good choice there within your price range but I have not used one.

Good luck, and god bless your generous heart!

[DJVege]

Welcome J.A.L.

And :thumbsup: to you for going through so much effort for your husband! He's a very lucky guy!

You've given a range of $300 - $500 max for a barlow and 2 EPs (Eye Pieces), right?

Ok, I'm still a n00b (newbie) at this, but I can at least tell you that the Naglers will be too expensive, so you can cross them off the list! :) (If you're not deviating from that price range)

Janoskiss, the 20mm nagler Type V is $619...unless I've missed something.

I can suggest the Orion shorty plus 2X barlow which is $139 from Bintel. I have it and it's great!

I'll let the experts suggest more EPs.

Good luck!

[janoskiss]

Sure but the XFs are just over $200 so it evens out. Otherwise 20mm Pentax XW instead of the Nagler comes in well under $500 - only reason I did not recommend that as 1st choice is because I have not used that particular focal length XW myself and because the 20mm T5 is my fave of the whole lot of the Nagler lines.

[rmcpb]

J.A.L welcome to IIS :) I see I have missed the que to be your second, third, fourth husband so will just give up gracefully......

As to your question which, I might say has been well put. I agree with Steve that an eyepiece around the 20mm mark would be very useful so, unless you have your heart set on ultra wides, you could consider either:

a 19mm Panoptic with a 68 degree AFOV and 13mm eyerelief at $335 or,
an 18mm Radian with a 60 degree AFOV and 20mm eyerelief at $329 (better if he needs to wear specs when observing)

One of these coupled with a Televue 2x barlow at $149 would give your extremely lucky husband a wonderful range.

Cheers

[casstony]

Since eyepiece characteristics vary so greatly the choice of eyepiece becomes a very personal thing. If my wife sat me in front of the Bintel website on my birthday with a few hundred dollars worth of gift vouchers I reckon I'd have a good time..............and being a guy, I wouldn't be bothered by the missing romantic aspect of the gift voucher :)

[wavelandscott]

I think that this is a great idea giving gift vouchers...okay, some people feel that it is not as "personal" as a direct gift but on the plus side he can clearly get what he wants/needs...

Since it sounds like the role of 2nd, 3rd 4th husband is already taken, let me be the first to offer mysellf up for adoption...heck, if you are this thoughtful in looking for a gift for your husband, being one of your kids must be incredible!!!;)

Good Luck!

[J.A.L]

Thanks to you all for your help I was worried I would frustrate people lacking detailed knowledge.

erik - I usually do that but was caught up in my notes and just when I thought about atleast highlighting and copying I'd done the dreaded click and hit the back on the browser and it was gone :( Thanks for your understanding though I was really annoyed about it at first :). James talks about a variety of things when it comes to astronomy and I can admit now that I've read so much I truly didn't understand or pay attention enough to convert into the information I need to decide. I'm not that good of a wife I wish I had have run off and wrote down some comments now. He has said about tracking, he even said he saw an eyepiece he wanted to use so "casstony" your post was great as I didn't even think about a voucher I didn't know they get done. I still like their site so I can think of that even as my last resort so thanks. He also has commented about waiting for the telescope to climatise which I didn't realise so as he's waiting he ducks inside goes to his computer and looks up things, he gets engrossed. I know he loves looking at the details of the planets. It's me who'd love to take pictures but I didn't comment on here as there seems to be a bit of a "thing" between users about imaging so I wasn't sure to venture in to those waters when this is so out of my field. Plus I'd rather get him something he can use a lot and for viewing, to get into imaging I imagine it is far dearer even if the thread in my digital camera is what one person emailed and asked if I had I could get a mount, even so I know it's time exposure issues etc and that's something to get in to down the track once he gets more use of his telescope. Running our own business he gets little time and is still getting use to his telescope. I think getting eyepieces would give him something more to "do" with it if that makes sense.

He dosn't wear glasses either.

So not to put a huge post again as I know I avoid lots of text I just want to thank you for all your feedback it has helped. mcpb and Steve I do appreciate and janoskiss that is what I wanted too, some honest feedback. Until I started researching I just assumed Meade but once I read so much I realised there may be a better option and getting advice from those who love and use telescopes and in their "home turf" is extremely helpful, I was losing my drive and patience and needed it to be easier. Yes, very slack of me.
Louwai, Dave and DJVege it all helps and I thank you all again for helping me hone in on the perfect thing to get.

Atleast I can redeem myself by giving a voucher another time if I do get him something, if it wasn't exactly what he'd get the options below would still be very useable, give him a better experience and I could get the voucher for Christmas or next years birthday (since if I spend more we combine b'days and xmas as we are both either side of it, plus we often spend something on life general stuff together, 30th is suppose to be special though). Then he can pick his own favourite piece then :)

EDIT - P.S - Finally I now get what EP's stands for, now I feel extra stupid I normally worked out most of the abbreviations, even less obvious ones than that and you know what just knowing that actually helps heaps. I think I thought it was a whole other style of "EP" ;), notthat it actually stood for simply eyepiece!!

[janoskiss]

Please don't judge any dealer on the basis of the odd bad report. No matter how many satisfied customers there will always be some disgruntled ones surely. And people have off days on both sides of the fence. I'm sure you could pick any dealer and find someone who is unhappy with them.

Bintel are one of the best to deal with IME as well as those of many others. In Melbourne they are certainly THE telescope shop afaic. Closer to your home in QLD, I've dealt with Frontier Optics and Star Optics and found both great. And they both sell Pentax XWs. ;)

[J.A.L]

Thanks janoskiss, you are correct, I would use any place, everyone stocks similar and if they had what I was after at a reasonable place, not too dear and even not too cheap, I've noticed all the main places have a good rep from customers on here and that's what matters more in the end.

We used Star Optics to buy our telescope so I lean towards them anyway; being closer to us and I'm glad to hear feedback so thanks again. I've been re-reading yours and others posts and they really are helpful, things even make more sense to me now.

If I get cold feet I would end up fessing to James what I'm doing so he can decide, I could do up a keepsake hand made voucher or something then sit him down with my notes and I'd point out the helpful forums and he'd find it easy as!!! I'll see though you have all been helpful and if I can pull something off it would be nice to give him something to open as neither of us are big birthday people and don't often celebrate!!!!

Thanks again this has been so much better and everyone is really kind.

[ballaratdragons]

Are you going to sign Hubby up in here after this suprise is over?

Then he can tell us what he thinks of his new toy! And his terrific wife too :thumbsup:

[J.A.L]

Yeah when I signed up I used a basic user name not one I'd chose for myself so I could give him this account. I wouldn't have much to contribute so this was only ever going to be my posts. I'm way behind him with knowledge.
Don't know if he would use it but I thought if I get stuck I'd make up a special card and he could read up and chose so might even "spoil" the surprise yet if I can't decide, it is so personal chosing a EP. He researches himself before getting things to do with it.

When I finished saving for the telescope I made a poem that I wrote on a starry sky background, framed it and wrapped it and just watched his face as he realised what I meant, then after a shocked hug he was on the computer looking up his sites he already had in favourites when he was only dreaming about it - lol Plus we put a little extra of our combined money towards it in the end too, that was a bit my fault though as I wanted something that would reach to the horse nebular ;)

[ausastronomer]

Hi JAL,

Welcome to the group. I am probably the bloke you referred to with the 18" scope that lets the kid run riot with the 10" :)

Congratulations to you on coming to the forum and asking for advice rather than spending a lot of money on something unsuitable. While reputable stores like Bintel and some others will generally give very sound advice, they dont carry all brands so their advice while always be biased towards the products they sell.

The Meade 10" RCX400 telescope your husband has is a fine instrument and is deserving of the highest quality eyepieces, which unfortunately aren't cheap. The scope comes supplied with the S5000 24mm Meade UWA which is a reasonably good eyepiece. There are certainly better eyepieces around this focal length, but they are very expensive and the Meade will do fine.

Steve (Janoskiss) has given you good advice already. I concur with him and would avoid buying any more Meade eyepieces. While they aren't bad eyepieces, there are certainly a lot better eyepieces for the same price or not much more money. I will also add that the Meade barlow you are considering is a 1.25" barlow and will not fit the existing 24mm eyepiece your husband got with the scope. If you get a 2" barlow your husband then has the luxury that it is useable with all eyepieces, both 2"and 1.25".

The scope has a 2000mm focal length. Ideally I think your husband should end with the following eyepiece set or close to it.

1) A low power widefield eyepiece like a 40mm Pentax XW or a 40mm TMB Paragon.

2) The existing S5000 24mm Meade UWA will do for low/medium power. The 26mm Nagler is a lot better but about $800.

3) Something from 12mm to 17mm would give around 120X to 160X and be ideal for medium power views. Consider the 17mm Nagler T4, 16mm Nagler T5, 14mm Pentax XW, 14mm Denkmeier, 13mm Ethos, 13mm Nagler T6, 13mm Vixen LVW, 12mm Nagler T4 and the 12mm Pentax XF.

4) Something of higher power around 9mm or 10mm focal length. Consider the 10mm Pentax XW, 9mm Nagler T6 or the 8.5mm Pentax XF.

5) Lastly, something around 7mm focal length for high power views under good seeing. Consider the 7mm Pentax XW or the 7mm Nagler T6.

My long term list would comprise.

40mm Pentax XW
26mm Nagler T5
13mm Ethos
10mm Pentax XW
7mm Pentax XW

Unfortunately all those add up to a lot of money so you probably don't want to go there at the moment. On the basis you can't afford to get to this list in one go, I would recommend in the short term buying a 17mm Nagler T4 and a 2X Televue Big Barlow. This will cost about $820. This gives your husband an effective 4 eyepiece set of 24mm (83X), 17mm (117X), 12mm (167X) and 8.5mm (234X). There are certainly gaps but this option covers most observing situations reasonably well.

Have you considered selling the kids or a kidney for him and buying the full set of eyepieces I have recommended straight off the bat? :lol:

Cheers,
John B

[ausastronomer]

Rob,

The supplied 24mm UWA gives 83X in that scope and a 20mm eyepiece only gives 100X. I think the next step down needs to be a shorter focal length between 12mm and 17mm.

If you did want to buy something at this focal length and were considering the 19mm Panoptic at $335, an extra $40 buys you the 21mm Denkmeier and an extra $100 buys you the 20mm Pentax XW, both of which are infinitely superior eyepieces to the 19mm Panoptic and a lot more comfortable to use into the bargain.

Cheers,
John B

[wolfman]

Hi and welcome,
If its a 10" LX200R then it has a focal lenght of 2500mm not 2000mm as suggested.
A 26mm 1.25" EP if that is what comes standard will give 96X,
I would suggest perhaps getting the Shorty Orion Barlow as this will give him a 13mm EP using what he has and the Barlow giving him 192X, which is plenty for Planets I think, so perhaps a 17 or 18mm EP to give him around 150X will cover a good spread of power without huge costs,
I find a lot of time is spent viewing at lower power (around 60X at wide angle) So you could consider an EP of around 40mm, these will set you back a bit more but around $150 to $300 (meade 4000 40mm Plossl $109, meade 5000 40mm Plossl $309) will get somthing decent, more of course if you think you can spend it will buy better but if he is new to this its not really somthing he will notice.
I'm not really sure what Diagional comes standard with the LX200 but upgrading to a 2" Diagional is a good investment as well.

Consider'
Meade 4000 40mm $109
Orion Stratus 17mm $199
Orion Shorty Barlow $139
Bintel 2" Diagional $95
Total $542
Prices from Bintel web site.
And maybee a Orion Dew Shield? if he dosen't have one. $59

I try to get get jumps of magnifaction of 50X, that way 4 EP will be all most people will ever really need, (or if your smart 2 and a Barlow)
Anything over 200X is rarely used.
My 2 cents worth.

[ausastronomer]

You're right. I based my post on the scope being the 10" RCX400 which is F8 with a 2000mm focal length and not F10 like the LX200R. I don't know why I did that because that's not what she posted. Must be too late at night :)

Cheers,
John B

[J.A.L]

Thanks wolfman and John B

These are excellent posts and really help me know how to go. It is so personal and so many; also trying to get more info from hubby or suss him out would only give away what I was doing,. especially since all of a sudden I know some termonology and even that he only has a prism and not diagonal mirror and even just the small details!!! :). I'm thinking of getting his help, we aren't huge Birthday people but I can still do up a keepsake message or something or get a book as well or something and write in the front cover. Still a gift and reminder he can keep with other things from me or I can scrapbook or something. Probably a bit too girly talking about stuff like that here though ;)

I am so greatful, I know James always researches despite his knowledge so either way I go if I get something or fess to him I think this leg work and all I read everywhere and especially here would be a load of time and work he wouldn't need to do.

I'm so glad you are all so nice andhelpful I thought I may have been annoying in a forum full of people who even with basic knowledge would know more than me in practical use anyway. The time to reply and help me research has been appreciated more than you know.

P.S - John B - what would you change your dream list to now for our telescope out of curiosity? I also really liked how you explained a simple extra injection of cash would get a superior and obviously an EP that would "last"/ be used more I really like knowing that as that is how I think. I have thought about going a little higher but haven't got a kid to sell yet and would probably not go that way ;) Maybe a kidney or just some extra overtime might be the go lol By the way it was you and I was hoping you'd see this post, I was too gutless to just PM you, plus I can compare everyone's likes dislikes this way to get a broarder idea across many interests and purposes even though the main goal of almost everyone is a good experience and fun exploring their telescopes abilities. This is such a great way to get advice.

[wolfman]

No problems, as you will see there are better EP's out there but they come at a cost, and if a lot of your viewing is not done from quality dark sites then some of this higher quality is wasted anyway.
I was trying to keep to your origional price rather than just blowing it out of the water for the sake of talking big names most of us dream about as well.
Forget anything smaller than 10mm he will never use it.

[J.A.L]

That is great. I like seeing the comparison between what can be purchased cheaper and the dearer brands it's so complicated I suppose more info better as long as it works with the telescope :), it all helps, I was meaning from what John said that I could get maybe one top and he may know so I can atleast just compare what the differences are even for future. Then I can go by other suggestions for in between or something for one other that does the job.

I actually screen shot your list and wanted to see what his would be, you hit right on in the price, it's fantastic. I think it is all great advice.

We actually live in a more rural area too so have been lucky to get darker nights especially when the power is out which often happens, we haven't got highways or even main roads very close so it is great knowing all the info. for any setting. I've added the nothing smaller than 10mm to my notes I tihnk that is a great tip. I've been trying to shorten options :thumbsup:.

[wavelandscott]

Some time ago in another thread, ausastronomer made these comments that I think are correct and match my own thoughts on eyepiece selection...
ausastronomer said:
"A $50 eyepiece in a $5,000 telescope gives you a $50 view

A $5,000 eyepiece in a $50 telescope gives you a $50 view

A $500 eyepiece in a $5,000 telescope gives you a million $$$$ view

Two things to remember:-

1) An optical system is as bad as the weakest component in it.

2) An optical system is only as good as the weakest component in it." end quote

In my opinion, a few "quality" eyepieces are over time a better value than a whole box full of others...low power, medium power and a high power are sufficient...

Good Luck and Clear Skies!

[ausastronomer]

Hi JAL,

This scope is also a top quality scope and deserving of high quality eyepieces. The 2500mm focal length of the scope does change things a bit. Primarily because in an F8 scope the 13mm Ethos would be a medium power DSO eyepiece but in the F10 scope it becomes a high power eyepiece and the 100 deg FOV of the Ethos is wasted in such a situation.

I would change the list to:-

40mm Pentax XW (62X)
26mm Nagler T5 (96X)
17mm Nagler T4 (147X)
12mm Nagler T4, 13mm Nagler T6 or 12mm Pentax XF (200X)
10mm Pentax XW (250X)

You could certainly swap several other similar eyepieces into this mix and end up with an equally good set of eyepieces. Something else to consider would be deleting the 26mm and 17mm Naglers and just getting a 20mm T5 Nagler which reduces the number of eyepieces by one. However, I think the 17mm Nagler would be an excellent workhorse eyepiece in that scope.

I will add this. Any optical system regardless of how expensive and good it is, is only as good as the weakest link in it. If you are going to buy cheap eyepieces and accesories like barlows and diagonals, you may as well have bought a cheap telescope, which is not what you did. A $4,000 telescope with a $400 eyepiece works how it was designed to work. A $4,000 telescope with a $40 eyepiece gives a $40 view, IMO.

Where you should go now, considering you can't afford the lot? I would buy the 17mm Nagler for about 150X. On the basis that the scope has GOTO and tracking it would occupy 95% of focuser time on everything. You can add another eyepiece each "present time", finances permitting.



I don't necessarily agree with this and IMO it is a generalisation that is incorrect to make. While it is low priority at present that he get to 250X in his scope, to say "he won't ever get there" is incorrect and something he in fact should strive for, as part of a longer term plan.

The ability to get a scope to high power is "seeing" dependant and "thermal equilibrium" dependant. Seeing can be very much location dependant. In other words some areas have consistently bad seeing and some have consistently good seeing. Unfortunately most people who cannot get their scope to high power blame it on poor seeing, when in fact their scope has failed to reach thermal equilibrium. Thermal equilibrium is where the temperature of the air inside the optical system is the same as the surrounding atmosphere. Closed tube telescope designs like Schmidt Cassegrains, Schmidt Newts, Mak Newts, Mak Casses and Meade's new Advanced Ritchey Chretien are susceptible to thermal equilibrium issues. Good observing and setup habits alleviate a lot of these thermal issues. For example in summer when the temperature ranges from 40c by day to 15c at night, try to keep the scope as cool as possible during daytime hours. Indoors in an airconditioned room is ideal. In this situation when you take it outside at night, the temperature differential will be minimal. In winter when temperatures drop to 5c at night, leave the scope outdoors where it will stay cooler, don't keep it in a warm house. Ideally you should try to set the scope up in it's observing position with as much cool down time as possible. I have seen countless occasions when inexperienced observers have pulled their scope out of a warm car, set it up in single digit temperatures, stuck an eyepiece in and gone, "Ahhhhhh seeing is crap". In fact their scope isn't cooled and the seeing is excellent.

I get my 10" scope to over 250X on MORE THAN 60 % of observing sessions on Jupiter and Saturn. I regularly get it to over 300X on those targets. Many fellow IISers have viewed Jupiter and Saturn in my 10" scope at over 300X. I often get to over 500X in the 18" scope, on high contrast targets. Neither scope will go high when not cooled properly.

Cheers,
John B

[J.A.L]

This is all great info. A 17mm is one I'm narrowing in on as first choice and still processing the combinations of whether to go Barlow or not, I see both sides but I still have plenty of time too and many options and sums to consider. May go with one first even and a gift voucher towards another and see if family would like to also get small gift vouchers type of thing.

For a laugh in regard to your comments on climatising; ofcourse it was me that paniced when James first set it up. Since it had been years of my overtime and any extra money (so as not to take away from our normal financial reasponsibilities I contributed to) it took me awhile to save so I was keen for it to be his dream one, with his interest and knowledge I found it important to start closer to his needs or rather a bit higher so he'd grow with it, and also so upgrading may never be necessary or atleast for many years maybe if our future child gets interested. And it was a lot of money to me!!.

So he set it up and I eagerly looked through it to see what all that money bought and I was "oh my god you can't see anything and it's blury and was panicing binoculars were the same" but in a little less lady like terms and asking stupid things like is the lens cover off (which yes I know don't really exist like on cameras :screwy:) and James just puts his hand on my shoulder and says it's ok it has to cool down and climatise to the air. I thought that was weird and he started explaining in technical terms so I quickly agreed :ashamed: as you are all probably thinking typical women ;). So I felt like an idiot the first time I learnt about climitising it. Now it stays in it's paded box it came in when not used in a cool room in our house on concret floor. I actually started looking at cases before EP's but they are pretty dear and James could probably make one himself in the future or for now we can wait and get EP's first to do more with it :):D

[Louwai]

Does all this research, Has a reasonable interest in hubby's toys, AND contributes money to purchase said toys..

Can I have a wife like you. PLEEEEASE !!!!!!!!!!:D

[Alchemy]

what a lucky guy!

as far as the Barlows go you will probably find the televue pwermates to be about the best on the market, but not the cheapest. i have 2 and would like a third, but i only use them for imaging.

the views previously expressed by others give a good overview, some of the eyepieces could be a bit out of your budget, IMHO you would be best off getting one really good one as he will keep it for years and it will always be a pleasure to use.

i personally prefer the televue ones: naglers, panoptics would be my choice but some of the others listed are certainly quality items.

target your choice depending on what its for, planetary , widefield , moon etc.

cheers Al

[BluMoon]

Hi J.A.L
I do not want you as my wife....however I DID insist my wife read your orgional post for future referance!!!!I'ts my 40th this year.
Good luck with the purchase....I am sure your Hubby will be thrilled at whatever you get him.

[wolfman]

40mm Pentax XW (62X)
26mm Nagler T5 (96X)
17mm Nagler T4 (147X)
12mm Nagler T4, 13mm Nagler T6 or 12mm Pentax XF (200X)
10mm Pentax XW (250X)

$699
$819
$535
$499
$455
TOTAL- $3007

A far cry from the $300 to $500 she wanted to spend, yes they are the best EP's you can get, but has she really been helped from all this, or has this whole thing made her feel overwhelmed and now too worried to make a decision on a gift for her husband?
Maybee sometimes we should respect what poeple want (and can afford to) spend, rather than puff our chests out and send everyone reaching for the top shelf.
Good advice is fair enough but if someone wants to spend $200 for instance then recomend the best you know within that price rather than saying its all **** and only buy that $820 Nagler.

And I notice I get bagged for the nothing under 10mm comment but I dont see one on you list? A bit hypocritical, I only made that comment 'cause it will be the least used for now.

[J.A.L]

There are so many that's for sure, I never realised.

Atleast I get a good picture now, especially for future. I agree and had started thinking I should just get one he would get a lot of use of. I was worried to get one too cheap but atleast now realising just how dear they get I feel better deciding to just get one if it is a better quality and more so better value for money. Atleast I have the information and it may be better I tell him yet. This leg work will no doubt help him and my notes plus all of what you guys have helped with.

Although he obviously is fine with focal lengths and how it all works he then has an interest again not only with astronomy but all the many theories and I've still even heard him wonder about the FOV as you guys call it, he even said something fancier to my ears something like apparant field of view. I know that affects your outcome on top of just picking a mm size. So he would no doubt be confused himself.

In the end, I atleast know from knowing him I don't need an unltra wide, Barlow may interest him but to begin with a "work horse" suggestion that many have offered would most likely suit him and be around 500, maybe cheaper. I get a feeling Pentax and TeleVues seem good brands to go for. As I said what I read of Naglers I realised myself they were like the beesknees and top end and I felt it was too hard to choose one of them myself. I don't think James would get one of them at this stage anyway, but I know in the future after more use he would be keen.

As I say though I certainly appreciate all the help. I was really confused before so makes no difference ;) but I atleast now have confirmation and a bigger picture view. We normally try to invest in any purchase, hobby or just houshold that won't need updating, we've always thought a little extra can be worth it especially while we don't have kids as it changes your priorities when they come along. With EP's though a little bit extra can be a lot though, but it is good to know that now. An informed desicion atleast despite the difficulties.

[janoskiss]

Given comments in your last post I'd go with:

40mm Paragon for widest apparent field of view (AFOV) - based on reports mainly on cloudynights.com

20mm Pentax XW for general purpose "workhorse" - based on my exp with 7,10,14mm XWs; amazing EPs - do some things better than Naglers. Amazing optical performance and the best made EPs I've ever seen ito fit, finish & build quality.

... And if it's got to be a barlow, I'd go for a low power one to get more use out of it: Antares 1.6x 2" barlow. On it's own it magnifies 1.5-1.7x. Add a 2" barrel extension you get about 2.0-2.2x depending on the EP. And it is a very good quality Japanese made barlow. You have to order this from o/s I think. I got mine from Scopestuff. Or for not much more money you could skip the barlow and get 1 or 2 more excellent bang-for-buck EPs, eg Pentax XFs, TMB Planetaries, UO HD orthos in the 8-12mm range.

This selection is within your budget and a comprehensive set that covers pretty much everything from low to high powers.

[ausastronomer]

You have clearly shown an inability to:-

a) read what the original poster JAL posted
b) "read between the lines" of what JAL posted
c) read what I posted.

You need to come to grips with the fact that when a wife buys the husband a $6,000 telescope as a gift, the following applies:-

1) The wife loves the husband a lot :)
2) The husband is fairly serious about astronomy and will appreciate a $500 eyepiece a lot more than a $50 eyepiece.
3) The family is not financially challenged to the extent that an extra $200 spent on an eyepiece is going to change the future course of their lives.

JAL stated she would prefer to spend around $300 but could afford to extend this to $500. Also note that JAL stated she would prefer to buy "ONE" eyepiece that her husband could "KEEP FOREVER". I don't rate any of the products you recommened as something to "keep forever". They are reasonable value for money products that you buy if you can't afford better. If you actually read what I wrote, you will note that I recommended JAL buy "ONE" eyepiece at this time, namely a 17mm Nagler T4 which costs $535. This is only $35 over her maximum upper limit and it is an eyepiece he can "keep forever". Also note that I recommended she add the other eyepieces one at a time in the future, not run out and spend $3,000 tomorrow. It's not a crime to be unable to afford premium equipment and if that's the case you buy the best you can afford, but you don't need to be Einstein to figure out that JAL can afford to buy a 17mm Nagler for her hubby.

This is all I am going to say and you can take comfort from the following:-


b) JAL and her husband won't have to resort to surviving on a diet of baked beans on toast for the next 3 years, if she buys her hubby a 17mm Nagler T4.

c) Her hubby will like it and keep it forever, or at least a very long time.

John B

[janoskiss]

I'm going to edit one post in this thread but it's very late so not going to send PMs but going to openly ask people to keep things civil - friendly if at all possible! - not get personal, especially not engage in personal attacks, derogatory language, name calling etc. If you disagree with another poster feel free to express your disagreement in a civil manner.

[J.A.L]

Sorry guys, good debates often help or bring up good issues but I never meant to make anyone's opinion less valued and I appreciate it is that important to you all. I knew it was a very personal desicion investing in EP's that's why I started this thread. I figured many opinions through your own experiences would give a lot of information yes, but, also then that information would be "right" regardless. Being so personal and so many things you can do to "twig" outcomes with use of different EP's and attachments and mirros and prisms etc, no one's opinion has not been valued only used as a resource to gear information.

I ended up telling James and showing him my notes. He had sort of wondered if that's what I was doing anyway, and there are still options for me to make something for him to have to open and as a keepsake for his 30th. We do plenty together to make this year more special than others with other dreams we made come true this year. It's just that it happens to be one of those birthdays suppose to be milestone not that he is seeing it that way mind you :P. Normally, considering other things we did this year, we'd skip our birthdays and Christmas and work on our life goals.

So that is why I wanted a broard picture, both in something cheaper to save money as we did already do a trip together as a dream accomplished type of thing, but it is true I also wanted to know about better quality to be sure, as can always recover before kids and put extra in type of thing.

Anyway, James was impressed with the notes, he read posts I singled out for him on this thread. He said he was wondering about FOV and in limbo himself and he was only thinking about it :) he didn't know he would get one so soon. All notes has saved him so much leg work and are all valuable :thanks:
He appreciated the difficulties in chosing and he knows how little I know, I just look through it after he does all the work :astron: so he was not at all surprised I fessed up and thought it was wise I did.

So feel free to still do any reccommendations please.

I already took notes from other threads so he now will look here himself. I personaly would drop the Barlow idea from my research, just for now; but I think he is still hung up on the idea because it means, he thinks, that he can get more out of any EP he ever owns but then we need a diagonal mirror which I reminded him and he knew already. I think he has realised how valuable the research is and he would have changed his mind many times over himself had he had to do the leg work. As I said a few times now he is still very happy and this info and my notes from all your forums has been excellent and made it that much easier when it is already hard choice, even if this thread never existed and he had researched himself he'd umm and arrr forever about it. Now he's got a month and I actually understand him more when he talks which he notices ;)

I said Pentax was what I was leaning towards or TeleVue depending on what I got and he had said he has never seen Pentax but atleast now we can do searches for specific things and get into the nitty gritty end of deciding.

Also, I was relieved he was not going to get a Meade EP anyway. I was hung up on it out of pure "fear" or more so lack of knowledge and now I am so greatful I didn't go that way and found this place. It may be hard for people who are so knowledgable to understand how much better I feel with just a little extra knowledge and all opinions.

:stargaze:

[wolfman]

WOW! how will I ever get over the personal attack, Yawn!
I wasnt only refering to this thread but many others I have read.
It wasn't a personal attack on you or your opinion, I think your list is a perfect list of EP's, I just wondered if sometimes we miss the mark of what was origionally asked.
I'm happy to PM you if you wish to take it further.....

[Louwai]

Well, It looks like we may have lost a potential new member.:sadeyes:

Very dissapointing.

I can't imagine why..:shrug:

[mill]

The only thing i can say is this: just buy what you can afford.
Whith less you can still be happy and like a lot of people, i too can't afford a nagler (even the cheapest one).
I am not accusing anyone but it looks like some people are in a race to get the best money can buy.
You won't tell your kid when he just has his licence to go out and buy an Ferrari because it is the best? (unless he/she has way too much money :P ).
A lot of people are using cheap plossls, eg: gso or meade, and are very happy with it, even if you get seagulls at the edges it doesnt matter , it is about the view in the middle.
Just my 2 cents here.
Ps: if you can afford to buy expensive eyepieces then by all means do buy them, if you cant, then buy cheap ones, and that will keep everyone happy.