RAW files conversion to Video

[multiweb]

I though I'd start this thread to gather some intel on video conversion that also might help others in the process. I've been shooting a lot of (cloudy) sunsets lately practicing timelapses for the day it gets clear. I now shoot in RAW files. My question is what do you guys do to convert to video. I'd be interested to hear different approaches.

The target ultimately will be YouTube or Vimeo or Smugsmug but the source before the final encoding has to be the best quality, resolution and color depth you can get. This can be achieved in a variety of software packages with many different encoders. Here's what's working for me so far, correct me if I'm wrong.

1_ I shoot RAW at the best resolution/quality the camera will allow.

2_ I do a quick pass on the RAW files to lower the blackpoint, tweak saturations, levels, lens correction if necessary then export the lot to JPEG files with the same native resolution. Nothing dramatic. I save JPEG because TIFF files just get too big. The images are typically 4592 x 2576px true color so 24bit by the time you get from RAW to JPEG.

3_ I then load the sequence in Premiere or other package. The sequence resolution is typically 1440 x 1080px. Square pixels which is HDV 1080i, your typical plasma display.

I don't use sound yet but you can sample up to 48kHz.

4_ I use a codec named H.264 which is pretty popular for high definition output. There's a variety of flavours to export to YouTube, Vimeo, Tivo, etc... Most digital output formats go to NTSC so ~30fps. I don't use frame blending as I found it often trails the stars in between frames.

The file output is an *.mp4 (MPEG-4). I've found that it will also play as FLV or F4V file but with horrible pixelation depending on which player you use. That's pretty much all I've got so far.

Looking forward to hear what others do, tips and trick etc... :thumbsup:

[multiweb]

Wow, judging by the number of reply did I confuse everybody with my question(s)? :lol: Anybody's got settings that work fine or how to they'd like to share? For sure there are a lot fo you guys doing time lapses. Pretty new to it and trying to see if there are easier ways. :question:

[gregbradley]

If you shoot in RAW and at max resolution and for 4 hours wouldn't that be too large for CF cards? You can get a 128gb San Disk. I don't know.

The idea of shooting RAW is so you can do a batch processing on the images correcting various things as you mentioned?

Possibly more important than that is having the right lens/camera setup.

Some of Alex's are Nikon 14-24 at F2.8 (I assume at 14mm) and ISO3200. Nikon D700 which is about 12mp. So the files would be "manageable".

I am looking to do some of this as well so I am interested in the replies you get.

The D800 has a time lapse done in camera. I am not sure how good that would be. It is part of the video capability and you can set the exposure time and gap. That's HD output. Video is shot at high rez and downsampled to HD quality I think (not 100$ sure).

Greg.

[DavidTrap]

Mark - am only just experimenting with time lapses myself.

I tried to do a raw run recently, but my memory card died permanently... Not sure if it was the camera or the card (have been having problems with the camera).

I had planned to use a piece of software LRTimelapse that interfaces with Lightroom - looks very interesting and lots of tips on the website and forum.

I did a JPEG run last night that I will hopefully fiddle with this afternoon. Will try the camera with a few JPEG runs with a smaller sacrificial memory card before trying a RAW one again with a larger card.

I think RAW may have advantages, but if I shoot RAW with my new camera, the resulting data will kill me in post processing (40Mb files x 1000+ shots a night = way too much data)

Cheers

DT

[multiweb]

Hi Greg, I have a 32GB card in the NEX-5. You can get bigger ones now. Laptop tethering is another possibility. You save each shot to the laptop and the camera is linked via USB for the duration of the shootout. It works fine with the *istD. Saving the files is very slow though.
I shoot RAW (ARW in SONY file format) because JPEG clip the black point badly. The only way to get it back is to shoot RAW then lower it. What I'm interested in is the transfer from RAW, JPEG or whatever surce format for still pictures into a video format. I wasn't aware the high end cameras handled timelapses natively. I guess they shoot video so there must be some kind of on board storage and codec at work.

[multiweb]

Hi David, the first step I use is to cull the data. Camera raw is very good for this. You modify one file then develop the rest of the data with the same settings and save to TIFF or Max quality JPEG on disk. RAW gives you the full dynamic range and you're less likely to clip your data so if you can, it's best to use RAW at the source.

[DavidTrap]

Just rendering my first timelapse with LRTimelapse - very easy to use with video tutorials.

It seems to work quite well with JPEGs - if you're familiar with Lightroom, it's straightforward.

Will let you know how it goes!

DT

[DavidTrap]

Here 'tis (http://vimeo.com/37043202).

Uninspiring, but have proved the system works!

And a quick one of Orion (http://vimeo.com/37044247) with the mount moving in Azimuth. 20sec exposures at ISO1600, F2.8 at 24mm focal length.

DT

[multiweb]

That's pretty cool. I checked LRTimelapse on YouTube. It's pretty good. I used Premiere/AE as I already use them from work and I'm familiar with both softwares.

What were your camera setttings during the transition to dark. Did you set aperture/exp time to automatic or a set value?

Also how CPU intensive is your video encoding. I found that to do HD on my I7 I had to replace the stock CPU fan with a water cooled H60 (http://www.corsair.com/hydro-series-h60-cpu-cooler.html). I peaked at 75c at 100% load with the stock cooler. The H60 keeps it down to 60c.

[RickS]

Interesting thread, thanks guys. I have a collection of raw aurora images that I plan to convert to a timelapse when I get home. Thanks particularly for the pointer to LRTimeLapse, David. If I learn anything useful when I start processing I will post a note here.

Cheers,
Rick.

[DavidTrap]

I shot this as medium quality JPEGs. Aperture priority, F6.3 and Auto ISO. I chose that f-stop so it wouldn't burn out the image while the sun was still above the horizon. The auto ISO was set to maintain a minimum shutter speed of 1sec - once the ISO has maxed out it then lengthens the exposure. I could open the aperture as it darkens. I haven't done a transition to full nighttime yet so not sure how it performs with that, eg will it go to a consistent 20sec exposure. I'm fairly sure I'll have to swap to manual exposure once twilight has passed.

Video encoding wasn't too bad. I just used export to video in Lightroom. 720p for 200 frames took <5mins.

Rick - watch his tutorial video. Explains the basics very well. Happy to help if I can.

DT

[multiweb]

I did a test (http://vimeo.com/36894087)last week on automatic (all) and as the subs increase in time the video speeds up as a result. I think this can be worked out in the processing. But the automatic mode makes the video flicker as well. There is also a clear step down as the lens F stop decreases twice in the series.

[DavidTrap]

The deflicker routine takes care of the flicker. Flicker exists because of small variations in aperture and shutter speed between exposures, ie 1/125 isn't always exactly 1/125.

It looks at the brightness of all your images and ensures a smooth transition.

As to things speeding up, were you allowing enough delay between exposures - if I only allow a second, it skips some exposures.

DT

[multiweb]

The first hour the subs were 1/250s and the gap 10s. By the end the subs were 30s so well over the gap time. I'll have to experiment again next time. Lots to learn.

[troypiggo]

Just came across this thread. I used LRTimelapse for my this (http://youtu.be/XshxJCKAUKE). Not particularly good, more of a learning exercise for me. Very simple after a quick watch of the basic tutorial. I use Lightroom a lot. All shot in RAW. Memory card (16GB) did fill up, but that's my fault because I forgot to wipe it before shooting.

Everything is done in LRTL and LR only, no Premiere or other video software. Haven't added sound yet, but think you can do that in LR, basic anyway.

Pretty sure it's 1080p, H.264, 24fps etc.

[mswhin63]

I use VirualDub for video now, although I have only tested it with BMP. Not sure what other images are usable but I believe it is limited.

Prior to that I was using Power Director DVD which I still use occasionally.

None can can RAW.

[DavidTrap]

Hi Malcolm - I tried VirtualDub, but prefer to use LRTimelapse as it integrates with Lightroom that I use for my terrestrial photography.

The deflicker filter in VirtualDub worked very well on another test timelapse I shot.

DT

[mswhin63]

I will give it a go, thanks

[multiweb]

Sounds like there are a few interesting programs to achieve a good result on a budget too. Did some more transition from light to dark last night and managed to lock the exposure time under 10s. Had to revert to manual and higher ISO for the dark but the timing looks consistent. Is there a way to lock exposure time and only vary aperture and ISO automatically?

[troypiggo]

I wouldn't vary aperture at all. Should just be able to jump the ISO up. Why are you restricting to 10s exposures? To stop star trailing when shooting on a tripod? If so, wouldn't have thought you need pinpoint stars in a video, you won't notice elongation after animation?

[multiweb]

I'm trying to lock the exposure time to a maximum of 10s so I have the same interval for each new sub, this way I don't have to vary the frame rate for the video in the final. If the sub time increases to let's say 30s the video will accelerate for the longer subs because the sky moves 3x further 30s than 10s. I can compensate the signal by either opening the lens or modifying the ISO on the fly. Not sure how to set the camera to do this.

[multiweb]

This time (http://vimeo.com/37231411)I got the transition in lighting alright but the video slows down. :confused2:

[DavidTrap]

Weird?????

Are you using an internal or external intervalometer? If it's internal, it may not be coping with the transition to long exposures.

I'd like to hear from the experts as to how they transition from day to night. Do they pick an arbitrary point in the evening (e.g. after astronomical twilight ends) when they shift to manual exposures of 20sec and maximum aperture, and the smooth out the transition using software?

DT

[multiweb]

I now have a HD version here (http://vimeo.com/37272877) where you can actually see some stars. :lol: I had the camera on auto with an external intervalometer and a delay of 10s. So it kept shooting short exposures within the delay segment of 10s. When it got dark I switched quickly to manual ISO 1600 and 10s exposures. Not sure why it slows down. Means the camera shot faster but it doesn't make sense because the gap is still 10s and the camera exposures were always contained within the 10s gap. I'm going to have to review the times on the raws and see what happened.

I had to key-in the brightness and contrast in the transition with software though (Premiere). You won't notice it as much in the sky but if you look at the illumination of the yellow bag on the top of the pier you'll see the break. You set 8 keys. Each for contrast and for brightness. 2 well before and after the transition so you can ease in and out and two at the frame level where the jump occurs. That's the second key you modify to try to match the previous frame which is a tad less saturated and much darker.

[DavidTrap]

Hope you figure out why it got slower (cause I have no idea), and then we can all fallback on your experience when faced with the same conundrum!

Good luck,
DT

[multiweb]

Well I think I got it now. My intervalometer was actually set to 20s so I stayed conservative with room to spare. All the shots just after sunset range between 1/30 to 5s. Then all of the sudden they double up in a very short period of time: 8s, 10s, 15s and even a few at 25s and 30s. So that's when I went over. The camera stayed on ISO 200 in automatic mode. When I switched to manual ISO 1600 then 10s subs were back to be shot every 10s, same as the beginning. If you look at the stars just when they start appearing within the clouds they're going slow. Then then accelerate (25 to 30s shots) then slow down to the same speed again. So it's working. I just have to avoid any subs bigger than let's say a 15s shot and I should be good to go. I'll test again tonight. Seems that the change in light is not linear. It starts slow then drops really fast.

[jjjnettie]

I used to using Jasc Animation Shop. It was easy to use but I couldn't add music, and the compression was apt to be contrary resulting in some dud files. At the recommendation of Nick Howes, I downloaded Sony's "Vegas Movie Studio HD".
I tried it out once during the trial period and it was incredibly more sophisticated and pretty easy to learn. I bought the full version the other night. :)

[Bassnut]

Well, this is known in the timelapse trade as the "holy grail". Flicker free transition from day to night requires (apart from Bulb mode) the "lens twist" trick at small appatures (to prevent flicker) and exposure time, ISO and Apature change. This is all not possible right now automatically, the closest you can get is manually with a "Little Bramper" controller, or automatically (both without auto lens twist) with literally only the "Vandergraf Hart attack Machine", and you cant buy them, theres only 2 in existance ;). The Vandergraf Hart attack Machine will have auto lens twist in the future though, which hopefully then acheives the holy grail, Im working on it :D.



Yes, make sure the interval is always longer than the longest auto exposure time. Light change at sunrise/sunset is fast and non linear. With a bit of practice, you should be able to make iso/ap changes at appropriate times to keep the exposures less than 10 secs and fix the histogram changes in post. If your using bulb mode (with an intervalvometer) though,you might like to use the "lens twist" trick whlist the lens is at f22-f8 if you can to avoid flicker, althought at fast exposures times, flash feedback is also handy but hard to impliment as you then need a way to time exposures from flash socket output after exposure actuation.

[multiweb]

Sounds good JJJ. Will check it out too.

[multiweb]

By lens twist you mean modifying the aperture? So would there be a setting to keep ISO constant and just modify the aperture of the lens in steps?



I use the intervalometer just to fire the shutter at set times. The camera takes care of ISO/Aperture/Exp time automatically. The problem I've been having is when it gets darker. Sub times increase very quickly and the only way to do a smooth transisiton would be to stay next to the camera making sure to bump the ISO manually so the exp time does run over. It seems automatic favours longer exposures rather than bumping ISO. I'd like to lock exp time and vary ISO.

[Bassnut]

No, the lens twist is, at the required apature, say f22, push the depth of field button so the ap closes down, and at the same push the lens unlock button and at the same time twist the lens a few mm, say 5 untill the LCD display shows 00 apature. In auto you need to be in av mode so the exp time is auto. Select an ISO for reasonable exp times, iso doesn't Auto change. So the ap and iso are fixed and exp time changes. Manually change the iso as you go to keep exp times reasonable. At some stage when it gets darker and you've reached the max exp time you can have and the max Iso you can stand, twist the lens back on and switch to full auto or to tv mode ,to control max exp time, by setting the ISo to the highest you can stnd and manually change expoures times which will auto change ap. When the ap bottoms out, make sure the exp times are long enough for correct expoures untill you've reached the max exp time allowed (less than the period). Then you've hit a brick wall, min ap, max ISP and max exp time, after that let it go and the time lapse will just get darker if it's not already a full dark sky.

[multiweb]

Thanks for the info. Will try that next time.

[Bassnut]

And........ Ive just down loaded Lightroom (Adobe, $124) and LRtimelapse (free). Its all freaking awesome for time lapse, have a look at the tutorials http://lrtimelapse.com/. It has tools for correcting the exposure jumps with manual cam changes and all kinds of other TL tools and it looks to be very comprehensive and easy to use. Going by the TL forums, its now by far the best way to produce jump/flicker free TL.

[troypiggo]

:thumbsup: