Telephone/Network cabling costs

[netwolf]

Hi All,

Can any one tell me what the rough cost is of getting extra Telephone socket added to a house. I have one in my master bedroom and need to get one in another bedroom on the same floor. Also need to run UTP between the same two poitns and one to the downstairs hall (direct drop from the master bedroom). The 2nd room will become my server/computer room.

Additionally I thought since I am running cables anyway I might as well run 2 points for network just incase. I think Cat5e would do for me.

I called around and got diffrent prices and I am not sure what is correct. I would appreciate advise from any sparkys out there.

Regards
Fahim

[acropolite]

Fahim, if you have an ounce of technical ability you can simply do it yourself and save a bundle.

That said, what you want should take no more than a couple of hours (plus travel) but could take longer depending on the construction of your dwelling.

For example a single storyhouse with brick veneer construction is relatively easy to cable to any of the external facing walls. Internal walls can be a problem as there will likely be nogging in the walls preventing access to the lower half of the wall.

To give you a rough idea we would quote probably around 2 to 3 hours plus materials, should be no more than $300 to $400. If you can drop the walls and run your own cables you would do the job for as little as $50

There are other alternatives such as dect telephone extenders and ethernet over powe adapters.

[higginsdj]

Or do what I did - drill some small holes in the ceiling, run some cable up from the room that has the connections and down into the room you want the connections and then just seal up the holes and pin the cable to the skirting. My holes in the ceiling were in the closets so they are hidden. Cost - cat 5 and phone extensions plus double adapters. Time taken - about 15-20 minutes.

Cheers

[tlgerdes]

How old is your house, is it on a concrete slab or can you get under it?

If you can get under it, then you should be able to do it yourself for about $50-100.

[Starkler]

You could but it wouldnt be legal. As soon as it becomes fixed cabling you require a registered telecoms cabler to do it legally.

I'm licensed to do this work myself, and yep it sounds like a $300ish job if theres no unforeseen difficulties in routing the cables.

[netwolf]

Thanks Guys, yes well I do work in IT but I dont think I coudl fit up into the roof nor do i have a clue when it comes to running these cables. But in terms of crimping cables and all that I can do and have done in the past. I have also run extension cables around the house by pinning them to the skirting boards etc, but thats not tidy and the wife will not like it. I was quoted like about 100-150 for just the extra telephone socket. I thougt given the two points are exctly the same run I also want to run a UTP it could be done at the same time as the socket. Its just running two cables insted of one.

Using a extender I dont think will work because I want to put a ADSL2 modem on it and I am not sure the extender will work with this, I think it might degrade the signal to allow sync.

The only tough one is running the cable from the upsatairs tot he downstairs link but it is down a external wall, and I have Satelite Coax running down the same wall so that could be pulled up and used to bring the UTP down. I would estiamte all up about 2hours work max 3. And I can assist.

Estimate about 70m of UTP (2point per run) and 15m of Telephone cable. Plus wall plates etc.

Regards
Fahim

[Starkler]

$150 is cheapish and $100 is a bargain.
I would be wanting a premium if it involved ladder work at 2nd story level as it appears.

[netwolf]

All the points are on external walls and the Attic gives you access to all of that from the inside, why would you need to do anything from the outside?

[acropolite]

Fahim, if you can terminate a cat 5 socket and know the run do it yourself, the electrons will never know that it wasn't installed by a licenced cabler, keep your cables segregated from the power and all will be well.

If the building is 2 storey and of modern construction there may be a layer of dampcourse just above the upper floor level that can cause some grief when cabling between levels. If you decide to tackle the job yourself and don't have a Krone tool PM me & I'll send you a cheapie that are giveaways with some panels we use.

BTW Fitting in the roof is often not an option, it's usually easier to lift a sheet of iron or remove a couple of tiles.

[mswhin63]

Yes, I too am licenced cabler as well, All the above is correct. There are issues of cable seperation to be aware of which can ultimately cause interference to other telephone lines in an exchange area. Although in a lot of cases it does not happen; it has though and penalties are extremely tough. When I did my course $12,000 per individuals and $200,000 for companies per installation. A cablers report is filled for every installation and retained when you sell a house or something if checks are done by the new purchacer.

If you get advise or installation notes on correct installation then the wiring can be done by yourself but ultimately connected by a cabler (this can reduce costs). I dont do that sort of work much any more but considering final installation work as I have permanent injuries that prevent me from doing some work in ceiling and difficult locations.

[netwolf]

Well one other thing I think may make it easier is the 2nd phone socket is in the back kitchen on the back external wall of the house. The upstairs room is direclty above this. It is my guess that the phone line to this kitchen is coming down from the master bedroom one. This is a assumption based on the fact that the MB is directly above the external point where the tesltra line comes into the house. So guessing a p2p connection scheme they would have gone up to the 2nd storey for the MB socket and then from there to teh back wall of the house and down to the kitchen. If this is true then the job could be simpler just to add a phone socket. They could bring up that wire to the kitchen socket and put a phone socket alogn this path in the upstaris room.

I am thinking due to budget constraints i might skip the UTP and just add the phone socket. The wireless 802.11g is good enough for the upstairs users and the wired connection was more for the downstairs entertainmetn area. But am thinking I can use Ethernet over Power, I have read some bad press on these though so am investigating them. right now i just need to move the ADSL modem out of the MB and into the other room first.

[mswhin63]

There is wireless telephone connections as well. You can buy them and they dont require any installation as well can be moved from one location to another.

[acropolite]

We've used Ethernet over power adapters (Netcomm) and had no problems, you need to be aware that both power sockets need to be on the same phase, usually, for most suburban houses, this isn't an issue as most houses don't have 3 phases connected.

[netwolf]

Malcolm, yes I am aware of the wireless phone extenders, but as mentioned previouly I am not sure you can put a ADSL modem on the back of one of these. But I will look into this.

[michaellxv]

I doubt that ADSL would work over these wireless phone extenders. Your voice signal and ADSL data signal operate at completely different frequencies. That's why they can put they down the same wire and why you need filters in your house.

For best ADSL performance it is best to position your modem as close to where the phone cable enters your house as possible. Every extra bit of cable and join/connector will degrade the signal. Even if ever so slightly.

[mswhin63]

Yep Phone extenders wont work but better off with wireless, I just received a new modem with 300M wireless speed. Haven't put it to the real test as most of my computers do not have N class speed but worth looking into.

[Barrykgerdes]

The standard 2 core phone extender I have does not work but I made a 25 metre extension with standard 4 core bought from DS that does work. However my max speed is only about 9Mb/s

These days I have my modem connected to the a wireless system that provides LAN or Wireless throughout the house and accross the road.

Barry

[netwolf]

Barry, yes Extension cord works tried it myself at my parents place, and I also get only about 8-9 sync on my modem at both the current sockets in the house.

If olnly there was a wall X-ray machine I could use to see the cable as it runs down the wall to the Kitchen. It most likely passes the upstairs room on its way down.

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Fahim

If it is anything like my house the telephone cables could be anywhere. If the person who wired it had a licence he must have bought it somewhere. I don't have any licence but I would consider myself fully qualified as I supervised as well as wired up many establishments in my work and we had some very critical rules of spacing for susceptable cables.

I have a single storey house so running cables is much easier. I just had to run cables from the entry point, across the ceiling and down to a socket in my computer room. It was easy to drop a cable down the cavity between the bricks and the inner wall by lifting a couple of tiles.

Something I have not tried yet but will is to put the modem right at the telcom junction box and use my existing lan cable from there to the wirless and computer. May be able to squeeze a few more Mb of speed.

Barry

[g__day]

Don't want to go cordless wireless telephony? We did that - cost around $200 to have 4 handsets - one base + 3 roaming - that you can plug anywhere in the house.

[mithrandir]

I have a few relatives with poor hearing. Some of them can't understand us when we use the wireless extension, but have no problems with any of the wired extensions. I can't detect any difference between the various extension in the sound when I ring home from my mobile, the Cisco VOIP phones at work, or other people's wired phones.

As for ADSL, I put in a central splitter at the cable entry point to the house so I don't need filters on every extension.

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Andrew

I also have a hearing problem and generally can't use mobile phones or the wireless extension.

I also split the phone line close to the entry and feed all the phone extensions from the one filter (except the one on my ADSL line that comes to the computer room). This where I have my special amplified phone. It is a dial up of 1960's vintage that my brother salvaged after it had been in a flood. I still have not found a better phone but the dial is a nuisance with the automatic phone answering.

Incidently the original phone line went from the entry point on the NE corner to the kitchen then the back bedroom at the SW corner and then the computer room (4t bedroom) NW corner. About 50 meters all up. I disconnected the computer room line at the back bedroom, pulled it back and took the cable across the ceiling to the entry point. That is where I made my split. Works pretty good on ADSL that way but I don't think it would have done much for the ADSL the original way.

While I was in the mood I also ran a LAN cable (Cat 6) from the computer room to the garage with a socket near the telco entry point. This will in fact allow me to put the modem right at the telco entry point and use the LAN to connect it to the computer. Might give me a couple more Mb/s.

Barry

[mswhin63]

Dont know if I should do this,

Hearing problems, 3 places to contact
NSW - www.printacall.com.au (http://www.printacall.com.au)
VIC - www.wom.com.au (http://www.wom.com.au)
WA - www.listeningsolutions.com.au (http://www.listeningsolutions.com.au)

[Barrykgerdes]

t
Hi
It is all under control. I have industrial deafness. I wear the most expensive hearing aids available. I get free service and aids and got a big pay out (nearly 30 years ago).

Hearing aids allow almost normal hearing but have trouble with some sound reproducers. They have one very useful advantage. I can turn them off and noise dosen't bother me.

Barry

[acropolite]

I hate to dissilusion, but I must dispell one urban myth.

You be highly unlikely to get any gain in bandwidth by improving your cabling.

Your bandwidth is governed by your ISP.

Poor cabling may give high error rates and result in reduced throughput but it is rare to see any error rate caused by internal cabling.

Some modems will have status or diagnostic page that will indicate what, if any, errors are occurring.

Regarding central filters, it's the best way to filter, putting several filters on Teed devices can cause a static like noise on the telephone line, the effect is more prominent on ADSL2.

Street cabling which has Teed spurs (cable that runs on from your termination point) can also cause the same problem.

[Barrykgerdes]

Are you refering to my quote of getting a few more Mb/s. If so I will qualify it. My ISP supplies ADSL-2 which can be around 19 Mb/s. I get a maximum of about 8Mb/s. If I improve my cabling I may get a better signal but of course that is not necessarily so.

However the quality of the cable will most certainly affect its signal carrying bandwidth. I have spent a lifetime with RF transmission lines and their losses.

Barry