Comets into Stellarium

[Liz]

Could someone remind me how to put comet data into stellarium?
Have been searching but havent found it. Thanks. :)

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Liz

Its easy if you can edit the ssystem.ini file without making any mistakes.
What comet do you want the data may already be available. If you have discovered a new one give me the coords of three sightings and I will give you its orbital parameters.

If you check out the stellarium wiki you will find data on lots of comets ready for insertion into the ssystem.ini file

The only real problem is the eventual size of the ssystem.ini needs to be less than 20KB or stellarium will be significantly slowed. but thats a lot of comets.

Barry

[Liz]

Thanks Barry - i wanted to put in Comet Encke.
Having a play now - you go in the config.ini, and pop in all the coordinates?? Have you got Enckes coordinates?
thanks
Liz :)

edit ... have popped in the coord from Ian Musgaves page, but not happening??

[chrisp9au]

G'day Barry,

This question has been asked before?
Are there plans to automate this process?
Seems a bit antiquated to have to edit .ini files? :shrug:

Cheers :thumbsup:
Chris

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Liz
From your post elsewhere I gathered you wanted Enckes so I was going to chase it up however I could not find Enckes amongst my records and did not have time to prepare a new set of orbital parameters.

We get requests to provide automatic updates of ssystem.ini to avoid manual entry but it needs someone to write the necessary program and there have been no offers yet.

Personally I have no problems with manual up dates when I need an entry I just generate it.

Barry

[mithrandir]

It's a bit of work but:
go to http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi
fill it out like this (use the change links to fill in the values)

Ephemeris Type [change] : ELEMENTS
Target Body [change] : Comet 2P/Encke [2009]
Center [change] : Sun (body center) [500@10]
Time Span [change] : discrete time(s)=2010-08-19
Table Settings [change] : defaults
Display/Output [change] : plain textclick "Generate Ephemeris"

In another window open:
http://projects.familie-steinel.de/stellarium-comet-jpl/

copy and paste the Horizons output
click "Parse Input"

copy and paste the bottom window into ssystem.ini

This is the current data
[2PEncke]
# Data taken from JPL/HORIZONS
# correct for the specified time frame:
# Start Time : A.D. 2010-Aug-19 00:00:00.0000 CT
# Stop Time : A.D. 2010-Aug-19 00:00:00.0000 CT
name = Comet 2P/Encke
parent = Sun
coord_func = comet_orbit
radius = 10
oblateness = 0.0
albedo = 1
lighting = true
halo = true
color = 1.0,1.0,1.0
tex_halo = star16x16.png
tex_map = nomap.png
lighting = false
orbit_TimeAtPericenter = 2455415.0014430126
orbit_PericenterDistance = 0.3358682360751346
orbit_Eccentricity = 0.8483364644712021
orbit_ArgOfPericenter = 186.5507501643271
orbit_AscendingNode = 334.5648481987205
orbit_Inclination = 11.78312860961414

[Barrykgerdes]

Thanks for that Andrew. If the sky is clear tonight Liz should be able to find it.

Barry

[Liz]

Thanks Andrew and Barry.
I entered the data from Ians page
http://astroblogger.blogspot.com/2010/08/putting-comet-2pencke-in-stellarium.html

[Encke]
name = 2P/Encke
parent = Sun
radius = 24
oblateness = 0.0
halo = true
color = 1.0,1.0,1.0
tex_halo = star16x16.png
tex_map = nomap.png
coord_func = comet_orbit
orbit_TimeAtPericenter = 2455415.077574995
orbit_PericenterDistance = 0.3369758246572427
orbit_Eccentricity = 0.8479456370992317
orbit_ArgOfPericenter = 186.4988142344296
orbit_AscendingNode = 334.5696032945518
orbit_Inclination = 11.78284902989807
lighting = false
albedo = 1
sidereal_period = 365.25


Is not working ... is there anything else I should be doing?

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Liz

I just added this to the bottom of the ssystem.ini file:

[2PEncke]
name = 2P/Encke
parent = Sun
coord_func = comet_orbit
radius = 10
oblateness = 0.0
albedo = 1
lighting = true
halo = true
color = 1.0,1.0,1.0
tex_halo = star16x16.png
tex_map = nomap.png
lighting = false
orbit_TimeAtPericenter = 2455415.0014430126
orbit_PericenterDistance = 0.3358682360751346
orbit_Eccentricity = 0.8483364644712021
orbit_ArgOfPericenter = 186.5507501643271
orbit_AscendingNode = 334.5648481987205
orbit_Inclination = 11.78312860961414

and it worked for me.

Don't forget to search for 2P/Encke

Did stellarium start after your change or crash? If it started OK the entry must have been read correctly. You may not be searching with the right name. If Stellarium crashed during load you have a syntax error in the ssystem.ini


Barry

[Liz]

Barry, I just popped in your coordinates with no problem, and searched for the comet, but still not there.

Doing a search, it doesnt come up in the prompts for 2P or Encke, though seems to be sitting happily in the ini file?

ian says - When you run Stellarium, you will have to turn planet hints on in the configuration menu if they are not already on. you will also have to adjust the magnitude slider so the circle will appear in Version 10.x

Couldnt find planet hints in config??

[mithrandir]

Liz there might be two ssystem.ini files.

Assuming we are talking about Windows, if there is one in %appdata%\stellarium\data it overrides the one in %programfiles%\stellarium\data

[chrisp9au]

Sorry to press the point Barry,

The following questions are aimed at resolving this issue, put forward as constructive criticism. :)

Why does there need to be a program written?
If there is a need, then why don't the Stellarium programmers write it?
Alternatively, why can't there be regular distribution of an updated ssytem.ini file that contains currently visible comets?
If your answer is that Stellarium users have individual needs of the ssytem.ini file, then why can't there be a comets.ini file just for comets?
There may be many users not as capable as you to do manual updates?
Could you please add my request to the list of similar requests?
The more requests, the more likely that somebody will get the message that this is an 'issue', squeaky wheel remedy? :D

Cheers :thumbsup:
Chris

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Chris



At the moment there is no code in the source to collect the data and process it into a form stellarium can use


The programmers that work on Stellarium need to earn a living. They don't get paid for coding stellarium so it needs to be done in spare time. We would like to first get version 1.0.0 up and running but there is still a lot of work to be done for this first.

Incidently there are a number of people writing alternative ssystem.ini file and have them available. I have one I will attach but it needs some extra textures for best use. Rename it ssystem.ini and use it to replace the existing one. eg add it to Documents and settings\yourname\application data\stellarium\data. In this position it will override the default in the main stellarium\data folder

It is intended to include a suitable comet program that can automatically load a range of comets, as well as more nebulae and a way to add them, DSS background, etc



At the moment there is only facilities to read one ssystem.ini file. There is nothing to stop you writing many versions of the ssystem.ini containing your own idea of solar system objects



You can open the stellarium page and there is a section for requests. There you can make a list of what you would and others would like. I think you will already find your requests there

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Liz
Andrew may have the answer. Check to see that there are no other versions of the ssystem.ini file.

If there is no ssystem.ini in stellarium\data the program will crash but if there is an alternative version in documents and settings\yourname\application data\stellarium\data it will certainly override.

If you can find already find the planets the hints will be on. Just check your config.ini file under [astro] for
flag_planets_hints = true

Also the default position of the slider may not show Encke. make sure the slider is at least half way.

Barry

[chrisp9au]

Thanks Barry.

Chris

[mbo]

Maybe try searching for "Comet", or whatever your 'name =' parameter starts with.

[Liz]

How do I do this, did a search for ssystem.ini but nothing.
The way i access the notepad with the info is through the start/programs/stellarium, then into the config.ini section where I put the comet data.
Not sure where the ssystem.ini is.
Sorry guys, will give up after this effort. :help:

[erick]

Liz, let me fiddle a bit, then I'll PM you Eric

[Liz]

thanks guys, no tried all that.
Nothing for comet/2p/encke?

[Liz]

Cheers Eric. :confused2:

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Liz

Your picture shows that you don't have the "new" ssystem.ini file where it should be.

1. Download the ssystem.txt file I posted a few threads back.
2. Rename it ssystem.ini
3. Start stellarium normally.
Press F1 (help window), click on log
The first entry will show where the stellarium user file is
in my case J:\documents and settings\barry\application data\stellarium\log.txt
This will show exactly where the stellarium user files are.
3. Open Documents and settings and navigate to the stellarium folder. Don't forget application data is a hidden file. Make it visible from the Windows tools menu.- folder options - view (untick view hidden files)
There may or may not be a folder "data" if not create one.
4. Copy the new ssystem.ini into this folder
close stellarium
5. From the user area you have now found open the config.ini file (with wordpad). Look for the sub heading [astro] and locate flag_planets_hints and make it "true"

6. Start stellarium and open the menu F4 to see labels and markers planets. Drag the slider to at least the middle.

7. Open search window F3 and enter 2P/Encke

If this does not work PM me

Barry





your

[erick]

Great, thanks Barry. I now have the Space Station and Hubble Space Telescope included!

[Liz]

Have severe headache coming on :scared2: .. information overload.

Ended up emailing eric the ssytem folder, and he popped it in, easy!!
Bit worried that I wouldnt be able to put it back in, and it said access denied again, but I must have forced it in, cos its there, as is Encke!!

Many thanks Everyone for your help and patience, youre a great lot. :thumbsup:

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Erik

Don't be too impressed by Hubble and ISS they are only simulations that look good orbiting the earth when viewed from the moon. The accuracy is poor because the comet algorithm in stellarium is not suitable for fast near earth objects.

To get the extra textures to complete the display for that new ssystem.ini try:

http://sarcasmogerdes.dyndns.org/stellarium/uploads/stellariumtexture.ZIP

in about 20 minutes after I put it there.
Barry

[chrisp9au]

All this f**ting around to achieve what should be automatic! :mad2:

It's like buying a brand new shiny car and having to carry around a screw driver and a hammer to get fuel into it! :D

Sorry Barry, but that's how it seems to me, great programme visually, but the wheels wobble a bit every third revolution!

Cheers :thumbsup:
Chris

[erick]

Chris - it's free.

Thanks Barry, I have the textures installed.

[chrisp9au]

I know Eric, I just reckon that this good program could be better, if issues like comet data/updates were fixed, rather than working on the next 'coat of paint'.

The car analogy applies, looks great, but it's a bugger to drive! :D

Cheers :thumbsup:
Chris

[Barrykgerdes]

Now come on Chris. It not that bad. If you want to use the car anaolgy its more like buying a new car and then finding you need to put petrol in it! Incidently in my old car I find the most useful tool is a hammer. A little knocking in the right place rejuvenates the starter!

I started in computers years ago because like you I did not understand them so I taught myself because I was not going to let a bit of junk beat me!

I have progressed a little since then but I still can't program in the modern graphics languages.

Baz

[chrisp9au]

I know Barry, I drive an old car too! Maybe I overstate things now and then!

Stellarium is not an old car though, it's a good looking program with lots of good features.
Just needs the basics, like comet data downloads, to be simple.
I don't think that's a big ask?

I think I've said this before re Stellarium, updating .ini files with text editors went out with the DOS command line.

In Carte du Ciel, I just click on Setup, Solar System, Comets, and then click the download button. Couldn't be much simpler!

When you look at the trouble/headaches Liz has had getting comets to display in Stellarium, don't you wish there was an easier way?

Cheers :thumbsup:
Chris

[Barrykgerdes]

There you are Chris. I have tried to run cartes de ciel a number of times but I can never make much sense out of it. I had trouble even making it display stars. But many swear by it.

I use Command line programing all the time. I does those things that Windows doesn't. Like most of the computer gurus from my era We were brought up on DOS (or CPM) because it was so much easier than programming with dip switches.

Compiling stellarium is done from the command line and I access my Website via command line. If you have the latest version of stellarium and run from the start menu you are actually using a DOS type batch program (that can take modifiers) that simulates command line programing.

Barry

[chrisp9au]

Those days are long gone Barry, and thank goodness!

You didn't answer my question though...

'When you look at the trouble/headaches Liz has had getting comets to display in Stellarium, don't you wish there was an easier way?'

Liz and many others should not have to go through this tortuous process, simply to display comets on their computer screens?


Cheers :thumbsup:
Chris

[mithrandir]

In the settings I put up you would have to hit f3 and type "comet 2" to select it.

If you change the name line to

name = 2P/Encke Comet

you can just type "2p" and it will find it

I've written some perl to convert the output of Horizons into the right format for Stellarium. If I could figure out the mapping of the comets.txt used by TheSky or CdC to Horizons' fields, I could do it that way.

Even if you use the batch interface to Horizons it only produces one object per emailed response, and it is a real pain to work with.

[Barrykgerdes]

Stellarium initially was not designed to show comets or many of the add-ons we now have. It is to simulate the sky as near possible on a computer screen to what you can see when look at the sky at night (unless you live in Melbourne :P:P) It had the major planets and some of the planet moons.

It was also made to run from a script for use in planetariums. This script feature is now broken and needs to be rebuilt. This is of major concern and is a priority task. In addition the ESO contracted Fabien to develop the program to display data that they wished to display. So for three years they called the tune as to the direction of the program. See the Virgo version

Later the display algorithm was improved and it made the display of comets possible. As the program developed It was modified to do many things by means of plugins. The fact that many of the features of Stellarium like comets, telescope control, Earth satellites etc are now included is that the basic program allows plugins to be loaded as part of the main program. These plugins have been developed by various people to suit there individual requirements and included in the distributed version.

Quite a few people have sought instructions for making plug ins and the details are in the wiki but you need to be proficient in C++ to write a program.

Some day there will be many of the features regularly requested but at the moment they are waiting on someone to develop them.

Barry

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Chris
I like command line programming and I am glad it is still available. It allows much more control over your computer than Windows does.

Also I have never seen any problem in adapting data to use in any programs I write. I find it a stimulating challenge and very satisfying when it works. I can't program in C but I can in Qbasic. Qbasic does not have the graphics interface of the more modern programs but it is great for coding mathmatical algorithms, filters and conversions.

I know everyone expects things to "work out of the box" these days without any effort on their part but you can't make every variation work that way. That is why people like Andrew, Erick and I are quite happy to try to help with these little extras.

Barry

[chrisp9au]

Hi Barry,

Fair enough, for those who have some experience of doing these things.
Unfortunately, and realistically, there would be many people like Liz who struggle to get these things sorted out.
Think of the folk who run Stellarium, but don't have the help that we can get at IIS.

I too have an IT background, programming in Cobol, PLI, and SAS on IBM mainframes, Basic with the old TRS 80 at home, and most recently VBA for inventory applications in MS Excel.
I remember doing a lot of stuff with 4Dos, menu systems etc., but I'm glad to see the back of the command line.

Cheers :thumbsup:
Chris

[Barrykgerdes]

hI Chris
Incidently I do not have a background in IT. In fact I did not even have any paper qualifications for my position in electronics till I decided to do the E & C. I learnt by trial and error in my occupation because they needed someone to maintain dataflex and symphony when the programmer left (without passing on his procedures). I just did it as a part time task. It was fun except when I applied for a redundancy package they said "no way" and two years later when I "took my pension" They also said "no way" and coaxed me to work part time for another two years.

Barry

[mithrandir]

Finally it works. Here are the complete set of observable comets according to http://www.minorplanetcenter.org/iau/Ephemerides/Comets/Soft00Cmt.txt.

Paste on the end of your ssystem.ini after checking for duplicates.

Barry, it's not that complex if you want to host the process somewhere.

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Andrew
Looks OK to me. I think we already have some of the comets in other files but that is of no consequence.

The file is rather large however and may slow down stellarium on some platforms However I patched it onto my standard ssystem.ini to make a new one with the planets etc (127Kb) and it worked OK FPS only dropped to 9. Filled the screen up with comets. It may be difficult for some to use unless they know the full title of the comet.

I will add the file to the web site for you and its address will be
http://sarcasmogerdes.dyndns.org/stellarium/uploads/ssystem.zip

The file will need to be downloaded , unzipped and renamed ssystem.ini and placed in the Stellarium user data area.

PS. give me a few minutes to upload it

Barry

[Barrykgerdes]

OK Andrew
Uploaded
Try it out for me

Barry

[luigi]

I guess some people like to see the glass half empty.

I like stellarium a lot, I can´t use Cartes du Ciel for stars, it´s cryptic.

In a commercial app you wouldn´t have comets,because the interface is not ready yet. In Stellarium you have comets in a dirty way. Instead of complaining we should accept that´s better than not having comets at all.

It´s free, anything you get from it is an infinite return to your ivestment.

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Luigi

Did you try the comet list I put on my web site. Andrew made up a list for stellarium of all the visible comets (127Kb of data) that works in stellarium for those who must have comets.

You will need to unzip it and rename it to ssystem.ini and place it in the documents and settings area stellarium\data

Barry

[mithrandir]

I did say there would be some dups. FYI the "radius" was derived from the H and G values and a bit of maths. This was the easiest way to get something of about the right size.
It's not trivial to cut down the number of comets. The brightness is non-linear, so deciding what would be below say mag 12 is difficult.
You only have to type enough to be unique. Prefix resolution works on these too. I made the choice to use the name as it appears in the MPC data. Dropping the MPC bulletin number from the name would be easy. It isn't really of interest to most people. Comet names are not unique so using the formal designation seems the only way to go.

Thanks. I suspect there are other Stellarium users outside IIS who might be interested. My file only contains the comets, so if you were to strip out the comets from the standard file and put these on the end you'd have an up to date file.

Did you want the perl so you can regenerate the file every month or so? At present it calls wget to get the data from the MPC but I can make it pure perl.

Andrew

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Andrew
I already use an extended ssystem.ini but it only had six comets in it. I removed two of them but have not identified the rest yet. I just tacked your list onto the bottom and it worked. I checked 2P/encke and sure enough it was there twice when I zoomed in far enough.

I would be interested in your perl program. I think I wrote something in Basic a few years ago to do the same thing.

Barry