vixen lvw vs Badder Hyperion

[veejo]

Bit of a newbie, but learning fast.

Thinking about getting some super wide eye pieces (68 degree). It seems Vixen LVW and Baader are within my budget.

Any advice on which might be better, thinking about getting 3-4 of them becasue I'm hooked on eye relief and wide angle.

The scopes I've got are an Celestron 6se, and have a Skywatcher 8 SCT on it's way.

I can see the scopes changing over time, but the eye pieces look like a long term investment.

[JethroB76]

The hyperions are basically clones of the Vixens, and although quite good are inferior in performance to the original. Get the LVWs if you can.

The Pentax XF's should also be considered although they only come in 2 focal lengths - 8.5 and 12mm - and slightly less FOV.

[veejo]

JethroB76,
thanks for the advice, leaning toward the LVW, thought of getting a set 22mm 13mm and 5mm to get me started ... if I mix it with a short barlow it should see until I learn more (about what I want and what I need). Any other lengths I need while I have to pay postage anyway.

I had thought of the pentax XW, only an extra $60 each and lighter, but a magazine shoot out said the LVW was better.

[Suzy]

Are you referring to the Sky at Night Magazine? If so, Vixen was only classed as better than Pentax because it was cheaper. You'll see the Pentax had an excellent rap in the article. Hope we're talking about the same article here.

[Suzy]

I own both Pentax XW & Vixen LVW. Don't expect the same performance with the same brand through out the focal range though. The Pentax XW dominates the shorter focal length range 10mm and down, Vixen out performs Pentax in the 20mm F/L. For comfort, I love the Pentax- and though the Vixen LVW's are great, I way prefer the Pentax for the comfort, the adjustable eye cup, I find the contrast a bit better than the Vixen, and it is dew resistant. In dew, my Pentax has never let me down, where as all the other ep's have. Some people apparently find the adjustable eye cup annoying, but once you get used to it soon enough, it's not a problem at all.

If you can afford the Pentax XW in the 10mm go for it! It is a Rolls Royce Lens.

[veejo]

Suzy,
you've made a key statement which has now burst my bubble of simplicty, and I was afraid that would be the case.

"Don't expect the same performance with the same brand through out the focal range though"

I had hoped to simply buy a set and be set for life (like ford vs holden) and if I wanted another focal length, jst get the same brand again, but having to pick brands at different length .................... ahhhhh.

I guess it's abit like buying wine, if they make good cabernet, they might not make good pinot noir, and it varies year to year, in optics I imagine it's model to model.

The review was from the sky at night, and it was the excellent eye relief that was more the draw card. I also saw a user based shoot out, and it was the clarity of the reflection on the vixen (due to the multi coating) that made it look better then the hyperion.

The pentax caught my attention .. yes becasue of the dew resistance, last thing I want is fogging or mould, and weight. Also they don't come up for sale often possibly people keeping them becasue there's not much better.

[wavelandscott]

Not a bad way to think about it...no doubt some companies have "more" good ones than others but it is difficult to say one brand can rule them all.

Different horses for different courses...or put another way, use the right tool for the job and there are several companies who make some good tools!

[JethroB76]

Agree with Suzy if you're considering uping the budget. The Pentaxes are some of the very best at 10mm and less. While you may find other options at longer focal lengths. Buying all one brand isn't necessarily the best way to go

[marki]

The 14mm XW is a ripper as well. Much better than my 13 ethos for contrast.


Mark

[mercedes_sl1970]

Hi

The LVW 22mm is an excellent eyepiece - crisp, sharp, contrasty and wide enough for me. But, can't say I've compared it to the Pentax 20mm xw... The Vixen is one of my favourites in my 8 inch f6 dob and 100mm f13 refractor. The Vixen lvw 30mm is also rather nice.

Andrew

[Wavytone]

I have a few Vixen e.p's... LVW 5, 8, 13, 22 and the NLVW30, and I also happen to have an LV50 (a big beast).

I also have found that the TMB Paragon 30mm is a much better eyepiece than the NLVW30 (although it has very little eyerelief), the Paragon 30mm is sharper across a wider field.

For high power my personal favorites are the LVW13 and LVW8 but the Pentax 10mm would do just as well.

[veejo]

the penatx is $60 more than the Vixen, and becasue it's a long term investment, I don't see it as a big issue.

They are close in price, the bigger choice is which is the "best of breed" in a focal length, and I mainly have sct.

[marki]

I am not a visual observer by any stretch of the imagination but the first time I plugged my XW 14mm into the LX200 (F10) and pointed it at 47 tuc I had to pick my jaw up off the ground. You just fall through the spiral of stars into a beutifully resolved core. I could stand and stare at that for hours and often sneak a peak before plugging the camera in. This EP is a great match for an SCT. I think the XW 10mm would not get used often as seeing will prevent clear views at that focal length. This is the experience I have had with the 10mm ethos in any case. The 13 and 17mm ethos work well but the ten is just a bit much for the level of seeing I usually get. The 14mm XW does a great job on the planets and DSO's as well and certainly my favourite EP for the SCT.

Mark

[StarLane]

Hi,

Go the LVW. I own both Vixen LVW and Pentax XW and I've had a couple of Hyperions in the past. The Hyp's are good for the money, better than expected actually but the LVW and XW's are better again. It's a matter of you get what you pay for. From memory the Hyp's are 68 degrees and the LVW's are 65 degrees while the XW's are 70 degrees, so the Hyp's and the LVW are different regarding field of view anyway, not sure if it's a fair comparison.

Cheers

[peter_4059]

For what it's worth, I've got LVW's in 22mm and 13mm and LV's in 9mm, 6mm and 4mm and wouldn't swap them for anything including an XW.

[UniPol]

Try these links :

http://www.svenwienstein.de/HTML/stratus_english.html (http://www.svenwienstein.de/HTML/stratus_english.html)

http://www.svenwienstein.de/HTML/hyperion_-_english_version.html (http://www.svenwienstein.de/HTML/hyperion_-_english_version.html)

[Gowin]

I had a Hyperion purchased from an oversea supplier.
It is crap.....has a coating defect, that is visible at the edge of the fov.
Be careful when buying from oversea.

[traveller]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but are there any differences between the new LVW with the twist out barrel and the older LV with colour banded barrels? The specs seem to be identical for both. :help:
Bo

[rmcconachy]

G'day Bo,

Do you perhaps mean "... are there any differences between the new NLV with the twist out barrel and the older LV"? If so then I believe the answer is no (other than the twist up eye guard). The LVW series are physically larger oculars that offer a wider (65°) apparent field of view than the [N]LV series.

Clear skies!

[traveller]

Thanks for the quick reply, I was more thinking of the LV v LVW, from what I can see, the major difference is AFOV, due to the way the lenses are grouped. http://www.telescope-service.com/vixen/accessories/vixenaccessories.html#Okulare
From what you are saying above, has the LVs been superceded by the NLV? (New LV?), as their AFOV and construction seem identical.
:thanx:
Bo

[rmcconachy]

Sorry, you threw me with your reference to "the new LVW" oculars. The LVW series was released a long time ago, at least eight years back and quite possibly more than a decade ago. You have the essential difference between the [N]LV and LVW correct. The [N]LV series (NLV being the latest incarnation, LV being the older one) are physically small/light oculars that offer a fairly narrow apparent field of view while the LVW series are physically larger/heavier but offer a wider apparent field of view. Both series offer 20mm of eye relief which is great for people like me who wear spectacles for astigmatism.

[ausastronomer]

Hi Bo,

The Vixen LV IMO comes up a tad short of the LVW in terms of performance criteria in addition to FOV. I certainly find the LV to have a touch less light throughput than the LVW and having less lens elements that should not be the case. Haven't used a lot of LV's though. I believe the newer NLV is made in China or Taiwan, whereas the original LV's and LVW's were made in Japan.

Cheers,
John B

[traveller]

Thanks for the clarification re NLV, LV and LVW! Learn something new everyday. I just got some second hand LVs and will give them a whizz once they arrive in the post and the weather improves.
Bo

[mercedes_sl1970]

Hi Bo - I believe the answer is yes (well, fairly certain) the NLVs are repackaged LVs. However, I do not have a ready source but seem to remember reading about it on Cloudynights.

The LVs (and presumably the NLVs) I once had were nice eyepieces - 5, 9, 20.

Andrew

[allan gould]

One thing not mentioned about the LVW range is that they are all par focal which really is great when swapping eyepieces. I have the complete set and love them as I find the eye relief excellent as well as contrasty, and 65 degree view just right for my eyesight.

[mental4astro]

Hi, I just noticed this old thread being looked at in the "who's online" pages. I've had some experience with some of the EPs mentioned here.

HYPERIONS- these are a take on the LVWs, but not a clone. These are optimised for SCTs, and with the only exception of the 5mm, are poor performers in Newts. Particularly fast Newts. Like I said, the 5mm is the exception, & it is a cracker in my 8" f/4 Newt!

I had my heart set on Hyperions for a long time, having read many good reviews of them. BUT, what I had missed was the good reviews were all from SCTs & Maks, not Newtonians. It cost me a lot of money this lesson as I bought most of the Hyperion range & found them most distressing to use.

In a strange quirk of things, after a chat with ol' Wavytone about his LVW collection, I came to see why the Hyperions are a poor match to Newt's - they use a Smythe lens as their field lens (except the 5mm & 24mm) which is an optical miss match for the curve of the Newt focal plane. The 24mm is a straight Erfle design, & the 5mm must be using a field lens more akin to a Barlow. One night while using the 13mm Hyperion, it occurred to me to change its Smythe field less for a Barlow - heck! It changed the EP completely, making it a fantastic EP in my fast Newtonians! Curious thing here is it works brilliantly with my cheapie GSO 1.25" 2X Barlow, but nowhere as well with the more 'highly specked' 2" ED 2X Barlow.

Of the 6 Hyperions I've owned, I've kept only the 5mm, & the "Frankenstein" 13mm.

Vixen LVWs - these are excellent performers in ALL scope types, which is just about totally unique in all other EP ranges. I had a good fang of Wavy's LVWs a while ago (thanks again, Wavy :) ). The 8mm opened my eyes to two aspects of EPs that is next to never mentioned: 1, the ease of use or the lack of eyestrain after long term use - the 8mm is extraordinarily easy to use over an extended period time. 2, variations in performance between EPs in a range. This last point leads me to the last EP review.

Pentax XWs - my experience with these is very limited, I own just the one, the 10mm. In my fast Newts it is excellent, easy to use, very well corrected, & excellent transmission. BUT, for me it is a pig in my C8! There is an optical mismatch here as the eye position goes from very forgiving in my Newts to impossible to manage in the C8. If I can't comfortably look into & use an EP, it doesn't matter any other of its properties - it's unusable, simple as that. Wavy tried it in his Mak one night & loved it. I have to say I agreed with him that it was easier to use in his Mak too. It's just not good in an SCT.

But this does not mean I'm going to right off the entire range of individual XWs. Reading other of the many reviews on XWs shows there is a variation in performance according to the scope design they are used in. Much like the Hyperions. The 14mm is known to be poor in fast Newts, & I think the 30mm too, but they are great in CATs.

I for one am still not sold on my 10mm XW. I can't use it in my C8, which leaves a problematic gap in the useful magnifications at my disposal for the Moon & planets. What is paramount in the EPs in my collection is that they ALL perform well in ALL my scopes. This Pentax is on borrowed time with me.

To finish, if you are considering any EP, do your home work - very few EPs do well in all scope optical designs, including premium lines. Don't just accept a blanket thumbs up for this or that EP, particularly if the recommendation comes from a review that uses a different scope design to the one you will be using it in. I now try to always emphasis the scope along with the EP in question.

Mental

[bytor666]

Very well said Alex!!! :2thumbs::jump:

[LewisM]

I cannot peak highly enough of Vixen LV and LVW EP's.

I have the LV's (had a full set at one point), and find I never want any other EP. I had a Pentax XW, and whilst I found it good, I find the LV's just that bit nicer. Not as wide a field (though the LVW's may be?), but contrast and sharpness/clarity is to MY EYE just a touch better.

I only own 3 EP's (not counting the reticle EP), and 2 of the 3 are LV's. THe other is a 40mm that is so uncannily Vixen-esque, it probably WAS made by Vixen and rebadged.

[mental4astro]

Lewis, what scope were you using your LV's in? I've only ever once wanted to roll an EP under a fast moving truck - the 5mm LV I had. I found it terrible to use in my C5, eye placement was crap. It was the first decent quality EP I ever got, and it was a major disappointment.

Just to say that the LV's are the best you've ever used isn't enough info. What scope is essential here to validate your argument.

I don't recall having use the 5mm LV in my 10" Newt, which is the only other scope I had that I could have used it in. In the end, the exasperation I felt with it forbad me from selling it. I gave it away, and good riddance.

One thing NO manufacturer ever says is to what telescope optical system their EPs are optimised for. It is only in forums like this one that the dirty linen finally comes out. Too much money is invested in EPs, and not enough info is given about them to match the expectations. We amateurs then cop it in the neck when the hype doesn't match the experience.

Mental.

[LewisM]

Alex,

I rarely venture sub-20mm, so can only speak from there. I use the LV 20 and the "generic" 40mm, and occasionally the LV 24-8mm Zoom. I am using it through a Vixen FL102S refractor, but have also used them through the MN190 with similar results.

I did try an LV 4mm when I had it, and it was dim. Quite. I didn't like it that much, but it was an OK match on the WO 72mm refractor I had, giving decent enough images on Saturn.

[bytor666]

I once had a 9mm LV and got rid of it because everything in the eyepiece looked too dark. I did not like it at all.

The LV's aren't in the same league as the Pentax XW's. The XW's are way better.

[AG Hybrid]

Well this makes your decision easier then. The pentax xw line is now discontinued. Unless you buy all of them now you may never complete it. May as well go vixen. Believe me, when your at the eyepiece you won't complain about the view.