The Best 5mm EP under $200.

[Suzy]

Could anyone please recommend a really good planetary eyepiece, 5mm, with good eye relief, neutral colour, over 50mm fov, and under $200.

I hear the wide fovs degrade contrast? And I know from experience putting a barlow on degrades quality somewhat, despite having a decent ED one. The 10mm I have at the moment isn't a good one (it came with the scope). Unless you'll can suggest a good 10mm that can handle a barlow ED well. Otherwise, I'll just use the 5mm straight. This will give me 240X on my 6" Dob.

I want to get decent views of the bands on Saturn and Jupiter. I was reading up on the TMB's but one review said it gives a warm and ruddy colour and you get better contrast by staying neutral. And as for the Orion Stratas, a review said there was flaring on the edges. And the Uni. orthos had a lack of eye relief and a small fov so were uncomfortable. I don't care what country I have to get this ep from, my invisible plane is ready to go.

This will be my last ep (yeah, you laugh!), so I want it to be a really good one.

[Wavytone]

TMB SuperMonoCentric (SMC) (if you can handle the small field of view)
TMB Planetary
Vixen LV or NLV.

Zeiss Abbe orthos will be outside your price.

Two things degrade contrast:

1. Lots of lens-air surfaces (also lots of elements). The best high-contrast eyepieces are those with just 2 air-glass surfaces - TMB SMC's have three elements cemented.

2. "Multicoated" anti-reflection coatings. While very durable and having very low reflection, "multicoated" coatings scatter more transmitted light than do the magnesium-fluoride coatings.

The reason I suggest the Vixen LV / NLV is that these are very comfortable to use as they have a massive 20mm eyerelief, far more than any ortho or plossl. For contrast, color, etc my own LV's compare favourably with the other planetary ep's., so no complaints there.

[peter_4059]

I've got Vixen LV's (4mm, 6mm, 9mm) for planetary viewing through my dob and really like them. They have good eye relief and about 50deg AFOV. Can't remember how much I paid for the 4mm new (about $180) however you can pick these up second hand for around $100. The seeing needs to be reasonable to break out the 4mm in my 10" dob.

[astro744]

May I suggest the Tele Vue 5mm Radian. It has 20mm eye relief with 60deg apparent field and sharp to the edge. Yes it is over budget but perhaps save up a little longer. May pick one up used for less otherwise BINTEL is the go.

An alternative for a lot more cost would be the Tele Vue 3-6mm Nagler zoom. It has ample eye relief for visual and a good eye lens (compared to orthos) and you can dial in just the magnification you want with click stops at 3,4,5 & 6 (In-between possible).

[Starkler]

A Uo orthoscopic will give the sharpest view with best contrast and minimum light scatter and would unreservedly recommend it if you had a scope on a driven mount. For a dob, no.

Vixen LV has nice eye relief but a rather narrow fov and light scatter.
TMB planetarys have comfy ER, and widish fov at 60 degrees but suffer light scatter and can be soft off axis, but you're f8 so should be ok.

Personally unless you want to shell out for a pentax xl or xw I would suggest the tmb planetary.

[torana68]

[QUOTE=Starkler;578762]A Uo orthoscopic will give the sharpest view with best contrast and minimum light scatter and would unreservedly recommend it if you had a scope on a driven mount. For a dob, no.

Im more than happy with mine (8" f6 f7 and F8) , but whats the difference between dob and GEM for eyepieces?

[Starkler]

With a GEM keeping a planet in the centre of fov in an ortho is a much simpler matter than with a dob. If that doesnt bother you thats great :)

[peter_4059]

Interesting you say that - according to astroplanner the Vixen has a wider FOV than the UO Orthoscopic?

[Brian W]

Hi, I have a 13mm Orion Stratus and it is a good eye piece in my 8" LightBridge. I also use a 7mm Celestron Ortho and it is better in that it gives sharper more detailed views, but of a smaller area and things do move through the fov with some speed.

It is the old mantra but if you have a chance to go to a star party to look through various ep's it would make your choice a lot easier.
B

[torana68]

gotcha, another reason I dont have a dob :lol: :D

fov comes up at 42 via a quick google

[Wavytone]

Actually you should consider using what Questar chose to mate with what is arguably the finest planetary telescope - Brandon eyepieces, from Vernonscope. You can buy these without buying a Questar.

The Vixen LV's in the range 4-25 mm have a 45 degree field of view.

HOWEVER, FoV is not really the issue here - for a fine planetary eyepiece - as Suzy correctly indicated - the priorities are CONTRAST and lack of COLOUR, and to that I'll add SHARPNESS on-axis. A huge field of field of view is not a high priority.

Secondly the attributes that make a fine planetary eyepiece effectively eliminate everything from Televue - Plossls, Naglers, Ethoi and Radians included.

The point is to have as few elements as possible, as few glass-air surfaces as possible, and preferably MgF coatings.

Brandons have just 4 air-glass surfaces, and have MgF coatings, and this is one of the reasons why Questar use them - over all others.

Likewise the TMB SMC's have just 2 air-glass surfaces, and MgF coatings, for half the price of the Brandons, and a better range to match Suzy's scope (the shortest Brandon is 8mm).

[peter_4059]

How do orthos go with eye relief?

[torana68]

5mm UO fov 42 (googled )

[Starkler]

Yes but still narrow enough to be a concern with a dob. I didnt mention fov wrt orthos as I assumed it to be well known and a given.

FWIW I think pretty much all of the specialist planetary eps are on the small side for fov. TMB monos, brandons, orthos, tak LE etc.

I reckon the tmb planetary will perform well enough in an f8 scope, and are sharp and comfortable to use.

[peter_4059]

Geoff, I don't understand your point about narrow FOV being a concern with a Dob - can you elaborate?

Cheers

Peter

[Suzy]

Peter, a smaller fov, say 42 like in the orthos, on a Dob it's out of my view in 3 seconds, and I have to keep manually tracking it, and losing it, and getting back, and losing it and so on.

Thankyou all for your input so far, please please keep it coming as I need to be as educated as I can before I get this ep.

[peter_4059]

So you are wanting a larger FOV so the planet doesn't disappear as fast from view under high magnification using the dob?

I've calculated some numbers for a few eyepieces in AP based on my 10" f5 dob:
6mm UO ortho - AFOV 43deg, true FOV 12.2'
6mm LV - AFOV 45 deg, true FOV 12.8', 1.05xortho TFOV
5mm LVW - AFOV 65 deg, true FOV 15.4', 1.26xortho TFOV
6mm Ethos - AFOV 100deg, true FOV 28.3', 2.3xortho TFOV

So an Ethos would give you 7 seconds viewing compared to an ortho at 3 sec.

[RobF]

Come to the dark side Suzy - buy a ToUcam webcam, collect a few hundred frames to your laptop, stack in freeware program Registax, then enjoy an image befitting the moments of best seeing you'll see in the eyepiece.......:whistle:

From the Brissy 'burbs I find myself using my 13mm Type 6 Nagler + ED 2x barlow more than a 6mm radian (in an 8" F5 reflector).
Visitors enjoy the better eye relief and FOV of this arrangement too. Almost bought a TMB, but no experience to share/compare there sorry - very competitive price-wise though with great reputation.

[torana68]

Do not be seduced by the dark side, once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny

[RobF]

:fight:

(and your wallet....:P)

[astro744]

Suzy also indicated good eye relief and over 50deg field.

I believe Brandon now make a 6mm but the eye relief is very short and AFOV not greater than 50deg. Clave used to make a 5mm true Plossl with 48deg AFOV and would be a superb choice if you could find one secondhand, (eye relief too is short).

For pure viewing comfort a 20mm eye relief eyepiece such as the Radian should not be underestimated and viewing comfort can greatly assist in seeing finer detail as can good tracking. The image in a Radian does not distort as the images drifts from centre to edge if used in a non-tracking telescope. The Nagler zoom too has only 5 glass elements and gives remarkable performance on planets and is a joy to use simply for its zoom ability.

Note. Brandons are $235 USD. Another option is the Takahashi LE 5mm which has long eye relief. Not sure of the cost.

[Suzy]

I want the dark side... I only have to sell a limb, a couple of organs and my next unborn child to afford the equipment... Seriously worries me how serious I want to cross over after seeing your pics Rob!

[Suzy]

I have read a good review on the Brandons. I'll investigate that one further.

[Waxing_Gibbous]

Yet another vote for the TMB Planetary or Vixen LVW.

[Steffen]

The Tak LE 5mm is superb but has only 10mm eye relief. It also costs more than $200 new (more like $250+).

Next time I've got $450 to spare I'd like to try the Nikon NAV 5mm, as well…

Cheers
Steffen.

[astronut]

Suzy,
I've used the Siebert e/p's (http://www.siebertoptics.bizland.com/SiebertOptics-1.25in-eyepieces-ultra.html) with great success for 4 years.
They are made in 1 1/4" and 2" barrel sizes.
You buy them direct from the manufacturer in the U.S
They don't have a 5mm, but do have a 7mm.
With postage it should bring it in to around $200.
They have 20mm eye relief and a 70* A.field of view.:)

[Suzy]

John, I will look them up on line now. Thanks.

[Suzy]

John, I had a look at the Siebert and it looks impressive. They don't have the 5mm as you mentioned. I wouldn't be interested in the 7mm. However, i would be interested in the 9mm provided once i put an ED Barlow on it, i don't loose too much quality i.e. contrast.

Have you got a 9mm that you Barlow? How much quality does it lose?

[wavelandscott]

Answering a "best" eyepiece question is always difficult because different folks will have different ideas of what best is...

I've got several of the TMB Planetaries and think they are good value for money. Nice eye relief and reasonable FOV...some folks have had some problems with light scatter on some of them and with fast scopes they can be a little soft off axis.

Not sure about their current price in Australia but usually around NEAF in the USA there are bargains to be had on them (much less than USD$100). At that price level they are a bargain especially in a "slower" scope.

Cheers,

[GrahamL]

So you want a good planetary performer for around $200 and your
10 mm will need to be replaced also .. keeping that $200 budget in mind for that one to ..xw 10 mm and use your barlow... I could easily convince me I'm still playing by the rules doing that:cool:

[JethroB76]

You'd much prefer the comfort of the XW than trying to smash your eye into a low fl Brandon or the like.

[Suzy]

What is an XW? Is it Vixen?

[koputai]

I had a Seibert Ultra 15mm for a while, and found it to be one of the poorest backyard-job eyepieces I've ever used. It was brimming full with flares and reflections. Seriously, a $29 GSO is a better eyepiece. The build quality was also shocking.

TMB planetaries are ok for their price. They are average performers at an average price. I had a 5mm for a year or so and found it quite good. Not great, but quite good. I have a pair of the 6mm now, but haven't tried them.

I'll second the vote for a TV Radian, but will also throw in the idea of a University Wide Scan 10mm with a barlow. Anyone used a barlow on the Widescans?

Performance, eye relief, cheap price. Pick any two.

Cheers,
Jason.

[GrahamL]

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1353

I don't own one but from what I've read it will work well.. it is double your budget , but again is going to cover two jobs ..what you wanted
in an eyepiece from your first post is definately covered by this one , just not the price .

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Suzy,

No, the XW series is Pentax. I own an 8.5mm XF eyepiece which is my favourite for planetary viewing. Beautifully constructed and a pleasure to look through.

Cheers

Chris

[Suzy]

Okay so I'm getting a lot of good feedback regarding the Pentax and have investigated it further, reviews etc and they all are exceptionally favourable. If it's a great quality ep, I hope Barlowing it (10mm) will still give me good quality (contrast, detail). Has anyone Barlowed this ep? Is there much difference?

I have searched on line for prices and the cheapest I can come across is $330 converted from Astronomica in the States. Shipping on top of that. Way way beyond my budget, but I'll have a serious think on that one.

I'm wondering why no one has mentioned any views on the Orion Stratus? Its comes in between $175 & $200.

[Steffen]

That's not a bad price, do you have a link? The cheapest I've seen so far was from Barry Gooley: http://www.kkohki.com/English/kkohkiparts.html#Pentax%20XW

Cheers
Steffen.

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Suzy,

I bought my Pentax XF 8.5mm from Frontier Optics for $229. Here (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=43482&highlight=pentax+8.5mm) is my thread about me waffling on how good it is. Excellent service.

Cheers

Chris

[PhilW]

If you can find one secondhand, the Pentax 5.2mm XL is a great eyepiece. It has a 65-degree FOV and lots of eye relief (around 20mm from memory). Also, I think you would struggle to see much if any difference between this and a more specialist planetary eyepiece. And the extra comfort & eye relief will compensate for it. I bought mine via Astromart in the US for around US $200.

The later model (5mm XW) is even better and has a 70-degree FOV, but they are around $70-$80 more expensive.

The idea of getting a 10mm XW and barlowing it is also a good one. It just might be slightly cumbersome in your focuser, since the XW is a fairly long eyepiece to begin with. You'd find the XW 10 very useful for general observing without the barlow too. It is a classic.

Phil

[Steffen]

Taks, Nikons, Pentaxes…, or you could take a look at this one:

https://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=354-919-1580-14886
;)

This seems like a reasonable deal for a reasonable quality planetary.

Cheers
Steffen.

[Suzy]

Chris,
Your thread was a great read. Thankyou. I emailed Frontier Optics today for a price on both the WX & the XF, as there are no prices shown on-line. The XF is right within my budget! But...

Originally I was after anything over 50mm fov, but now that I'm more informed, I would prefer around 68-70 fov. I have a 68 fov 15mm- it's just comfortable after barlowing. It's just too hard on a dob anything under, as I want this ep to study with, so I need my view on things for as long as possible.
What would my FOV be with a 10mm, 60 fov, barlowed? I will give it thought though I think i'm going backwards. ?

Anyone? What's the difference between the XF & WX apart from 10 deg fov difference, 2mm less eye relief, and $200 more? They don't give much info on-line.:confused2::question::question ::confused2:

[Wavytone]

Suzy, you have neatly summed up the difference nicely, the choice is yours.
Evidently field of view is a higher priority for you than contrast.

Personally for high power I would go for contrast and image quality and tolerate a smaller FoV - even if this means swapping eyepieces to recenter the object.

[Suzy]

I'VE JUST COME ACROSS THIS...

The first thing to realise is that for the best in planetary viewing you need very different things to eyepieces used for DSOs (deep space objects), which is where the emphasis is placed on most general purpose eyepieces.

The primary difference is that eyepieces for DSOs are optimised for wide field viewing. To do this they tend to use large numbers of lenses in several groupings which inevitably introduces lateral colour, which is the death knell to seeing fine low-contrast details on the planets. The extra air-glass and glass-glass transitions also introduce more light scattering which causes a halo effect around bright objects. Again, this is not a problem for faint DSOs but a major issue for planetary viewing. The Nagler designs are often presented in a rather lazy manner as being the best eyepiece regardless of the question asked. In reality they perform particularly poorly in planetary use, in large part because of the sheer complexity and number of elements.

True planetary eyepieces are different beasts altogether. The primary job is viewing bright objects with as much detail and contrast as is possible. All other considerations are secondary. There is a strong advantage to minimising the number of elements even if this also reduces the field of view. True planetary eyepeices give much better light transmission, infinitely higher contrast and the absolute minimum scattered light. Space is black with a planetary eyepiece. It is often a murky grey with a wide field design.

For specifics, the Orthoscopic recommended by Andrew S would not be a bad choice but for my money I would go for a TMB Planetary II, which is around the same price but it has the edge even if it is fairly marginal. 5mm is probably about the right focal length. In a perfect world I would have said one of the TMB monocentrics, which really are no compromise planetary eyepeices, with absolutely unrivalled nothing-else-even-comes-close contrast. However, those are out of production now and as a highly specialised eyepiece they are unlikely to reappear on the market for the foreseeable future.
-------------------------------

Question: Will I get a better quality with the Pentax 60 fov, than the 68 fov. Also, the Pentax has 7 elements. Isn't that a lot? This guy is saying here the more fov, and more elements, the less quality. Waveytone in fact said the same thing regarding number of elements. I was hoping the Pentax would be different. :shrug: I also have a dob, and that's going to be tricky with 60fov. I'm guessing I need to make a choice between being practical and quality.Oh golly, golly just when i thought I was making a decision.

Sorry guys for dragging this thread out for so long...It's just I don't ever intend to spend up like this ever again on an eyepiece. I'm trying to be the best informed before I buy.. thankyou for you help and patience.

[torana68]

maybe your local club could help out ? see if members have the eyepieces and do a road test?
Roger

[Wavytone]

Hi Suzy, it seems you are learning fast.

First, I'll talk about eyepieces assuming you use your current dob, for which 5mm seems ideal for you for high power.

At high power,as you have realised, it's most likely you're looking at something small, on-axis, and a huge field of view is pointless assuming you can re-centre the object. What is more useful is the best image quality and contrast, on-axis.

it is for this reason many lunar and planetary observers are more interested in ep's with as few galss-air surfaces as possible, and would prefer MgF coatings (less scattered light when clean) to the broadband multicoatings (more durable but more scattered light).

The standout is the TMB supermonocentric (SMC) with just 2 glass-air surfaces.

From there its a toss-up between Brandons (best), Zeiss Abbe Orthoscopics (ZAO), Edmund RKE's (excellent bargain IMHO), or the run-of-the-mill ortho's which have 4 glass-air surfaces. Experienced planetary observers have some of these, if not a full set.

All of the widefield designs such as the GSO's, Vixen LVW's, Hyperions, Stratus', Naglers, Ethoi and the Pentax have many more glass-air surfaces and are all multicoated. Yes they give a lovely wide field, but look closely at a star or planet at high power and it's not such a beautiful view if you know what the textbooks say you should see with perfect optics.

Secondly there is the question of the focal ratio of your scope.

Trying to get good planetary images out of a typical f/5 dob is quite frankly fraught with the compromises associated with horribly short eyepieces.

If you want high power it is much better to start with a long focal length telescope (magnification = F/f, where F is the telescope focal length and f is the eyepiece focal length).

For example, for two scopes of the same aperture, one f/5 and the other at f/15, a 5mm eyepiece in the f/5 gives the same magnification as a 15mm in the f/15 scope. But the image quality will be chalk and cheese... an f/5 dob will have a huge secondary (degrades the image), and the 5mm eyepiece is a pain to use (never mind keep clean). An f/15 scope has a far smaller secondary (behaves like an APO refractor) and most 15mm eyepieces are quite comfortable to use.

Even better, almost all modern eyepieces work very well with an f/15 light cone, so there is really no need to splash out on the really expensive ones. On the other hand Brandons and orthos do not work well with scopes faster than f/7, usually they show some pretty horrendous aberrations over the outer third of the field of view.

It is for this reason I use an f/15 Mak, and a set of eyepieces that span 8 - 50mm...

* of the ones I mentioned, the Edmund RKE's were designed specifically for Newtonians at f/4,with respect to the curvature of the field and coma. For fast Newtonians these eyepieces are very much overlooked and they are startlingly good, for what they are.

[Astrobserver99]

I like the TMB Planetary. Great colour and sharpness and easy to use. I use mine with a 2x TV Barlow.

[Suzy]

Waveytone, thankyou for that. My scope is an F/7.8, and I'll assume when you talk about an F/5 that it applies to an F/7.8 as well?

They do not make the Zeiss or the TMB monos anymore.

[Gargoyle_Steve]

As per the link posted by Steffen up above, I have a Burgess / TMB Planetary (mine is a 6mm) that I picked up 2nd hand from the adds here on IIS, and it's great in my opinion - I have used it both in my 12" f5 dob and in my 5" f7 reflector (tripod mount, ALT/AZ head). It gives very good planetary views, and naturally the moon is beyond stunning - best views of it I have ever seen.

I own several Baader Hyperion ep's for DSO viewing (36, 24, 17, 13mm.... and another?) along with an 8mm Orion Stratos and a 12mm Pentax XF (which I also LOVE using) but I won't be parting with the TMB, it just does such a great job! If you can get that 5mm as per the Optcorp add, or another one from somewhere else, I'd definitely say go for it.

[Steffen]

Astronomica in the UK have the 6mm TMB new for £55:

http://www.astronomica.co.uk/index.php/Eyepieces/Special-Eyepieces/TMB-6mm-Planetary-Premium-Eyepiece.html

Cheers
Steffen.

[RobF]

Haven't seen you for a while Steve, but next time I do I'll have to bug you to do a side-by-side between my 6mm Radian and your TMB! I've always been curious. This is turning into quite an educational thread.

[Wavytone]

Aah yes, but they come up for sale often enough on Astromart, can pick them up for a song. Most of the sellers will ship to Aus for a few $ more.

[Gargoyle_Steve]

I haven't been around much Rob, I've been having some extended "down time" for a while now, but I hope we can catch up sometime soon. I'd be delighted to do a side by side comparison, and Ron also has a 6mm Radian so I'm sure something can be worked out.

My brother from the Alice is coming down on holidays in May, will be here for new moon, and is bringing his new Ethos with him (13 mm I think?). I haven't seen one of those bazookas live yet, let alone looked through one, so if we can catch up around that time then you can probably have a gander through that as well!

[astro744]

Whatever applies to planets also applies to deep sky. If you are trying to see that very faint galaxy you are better off with an eyepiece with minimal glass elements, minimal scatter, sharpest on axis, minimal lateral colour and best light transmission otherwise you will not see the galaxy. For galaxies that you can see, such an eyepiece will give you a chance at seeing detail due to better contrast as a result.

Eyepiece design is a compromise and specialist eyepieces designed for planets will also work very well for deep sky. However, they will NOT have the eye relief you desire. They will NOT have the field of view you desire and they will cost more than $200 each.

Eyepieces offered today from companies such as Tele Vue and Pentax are multi-element designs that are needed to provide wide and sharp (both off axis and on axis) views. The glass and coatings used are the finest available and light transmission is only negligibly lower than a simple design if detecable at all.

If you are using an undriven DOB then you will NOT enjoy viewing with a narrow field, short eye relief eyepiece even if it does provide you with the best contrast.

I still recommend the Tele Vue Radian for the following reasons:

1. It is available in 5mm which you wanted.
2. It has a 60deg field of view which you also requested.
3. It has 20mm eye relief which is suitable for eyeglass wearers and is very comfortable for non eyeglass wearers.
4. It is sharp both on axis and off axis. If you ever have a chance to look through one you will see no distortion as a planets drifts from the centre to the edge and finally disappears from view. It is remarkable!
5. All Tele Vue eyepieces are designed to f4 and will work equally well at longer focal lengths.
6. You will get decent views of the band of Jupiter and Saturn with any quality eyepieces (not just a purist's planetary eyepiece) as you also requested.

As an alterative I would recommend the 5mm Nagler to give you the 82deg field that will allow you to view the object that much longer without nudging the telescope. However this eyepiece will cost a lot more than $200. The eye relief is fine for non eyeglass wearers.

I totally disagree with the comment about the Naglers being poor on planetary viewing. One of my best views of Jupiter and Saturn were through a 12mm T4 Nagler on a 10" f6 and 16" f5 telescope. In fact the view of Saturn through the 16" was 'Hubble' quality and you have to remember the eyepiece is but one part of the equation. To get a great view you need good primary optics, good eyepieces, good seeing and a good eye. The final image is only as good as the weakest link. Note I would like to point out that the 16" f5 has premium custom optics and a smaller than usual secondary.

I have never tried a 5mm XW Pentax but being a premium manufacturer I would expect it to perform well. Note neither eyepiece can be bought for $200 but a new Radian is close at $279 and perhaps can be found secondhand for near $200.

The monocentrics are for the purists and do perform well for the task they were designed for, both planetary and deep sky. I do not believe they are the eyepieces you seek or require for you needs and you will be jsut as happy if not more so with other premium eyepieces I have mentioned. Try and get to a star party/group observing session and try as many different eyepieces that are there on the night and you will then know better what you prefer.

Whatever you choose, enjoy!



What is the central obstruction of your f15 Mak? I would expect an f15 Mak to have a larger obstruction than an f15 Newtonian.

[Suzy]

To Astro 77.... WOW, that was very informative, thankyou.

To Everyone....
I'm upping the budget (why am I not surprised) and will be making a choice between the following two: Pentax XW 5mm or the Vixen LVW 5mm. Most likely the Pentax.

I have at the end of the day only a 6" dob. I only have so much light to play with... are these ep's overkill? Hope that doesn't sound stupid, cause it just did to me!

[Brian W]

Hi Suzy I live in the Philippines so I am not up with scope prices where you are. However I am curious how much an 8" scope would cost you. 6x6 +36... 8x8=64 which is almost twice the light gathering potential.

You are talking premier ep's and while they are never over kill maybe a bigger scope might make as much sense?
Brian

[Brian W]

Hi again Suzy, As mentioned earlier I use an 8" Lightbridge f/6 as my primary scope. I am currently doing the Herschel 400. My primary ep is the Meade 26mm QX wide.

I use it because with its low power it gives me a nice 'real' fov for star hopping as well as picking up faint fuzzies that my higher power eps have more trouble with.

Certainly it is not useful for fine detail but for colour and for simply finding objects a good quality low power ep may give you more enjoyment as far as galaxies, globular clusters and colours than a high power ep.

Just my opinion because it suits my observing goals for now.
Brian

[torana68]

yep a cheapie (meaning poor quality) barlow means the expensive eyepiece is now a cheapie eyepiece, maybe an 8" 'scope is a better idea, sell yours put the cash into an 8" :) but I might add the eyepieces are only going to be as good as the mirrors let them be, me Id just get UO HD's, maybe 2 of them and hit someone up for a good barlow for chrissie/birthday/anniversary whatever, I wont be looking at Rolls Royce eyepieces till I have Rolls Royce mirrors :)

[JethroB76]

The post this was in response to has changed significantly so I've edited so as not to confuse the thread

[Suzy]

Just thought I would share with you the comparisson specs on the popular eye pieces that you'll recommended.

Make No. Elements/Groups Fov E/Relief

Vixen NLV 9mm 7/4 45 deg. 20mm $169.00

Vixen Lithanum LVW 8mm 8/5 65 deg. 20mm $289.00

Vixen 8-24 zoom,
LV, Lithanum 7/? 40-60 deg. 15-19mm $189.00

Vixen 8-24
Click Stop Zoom 8/4 40-55 deg. 20-15mm $219.00

Vixen NPL (plosl)10mm 4/2 50 deg. 3mm $ 39.95

Pentax XW 10mm (Lithanum)7/6 70 deg. 20mm $309.00

TMB Planetary 9mm 6/4 60 deg. 12mm $125.00

Televue Radian 10mm 6/4 60 deg. 20mm $213.00

Televue Panoptic(24mm) 6/4 68 deg. 70% of F/L $273.00

Ethos ? 100 deg. 15mm $522.00

Nagler Type 4, 12mm 6/4 82 deg. 17mm $330.00

Nagler Type 5, 16mm 6/4 82 deg 62% of F/L $303.00

Nagler Type 6, 9mm 7/4 82 deg 12mm $260.00

Note: The above prices are from OPT with the exception of the TMB which is from Frontier Optics in Sydney. All prices are accurate as of 14/4/2010. OPT is in California U.S. Though they are offering free shipping, it applies to the U.S. only, but said to Australia he would give 20% off me, so I’m sure same that would apply to all if you make mention of that. The Televue incl. Naglers are on sale at this price till 30th April.

[Starkler]

Suzy if you do happen to buy Televue from OS please dont mention it publicly on forum as they have dealer territories to protect and nasty stuff happens if an OS dealer sells to an Aussie and it becomes known.

[astro744]

Better still, buy local from BINTEL as they are fantastic to deal with and prices are very reasonable. You'll also get your warranty through them as they are the authorised Australian dealer for Tele Vue.

[Suzy]

To Brian W and Torana 68...

I don't want to upgrade my 6" at this stage as I can only just carry it now. I prefer to be self reliant as I find I can quickly take it outside at a whim whenever I want without relying on anyone. I've only had it for four months so would prefer to do a lot more learning with it, as advised by this forum on a previous thread not so long ago. If and when the time comes to upgrade, i will be going into something around a 10" to make it worth my while (but still keep my 6). I did quite a bit of reading a while back and found out there wasn't much difference between 6 to 8 to make that upgrade worthwhile.

Apologies for the confusion earlier regarding Torana's response- where he was talking about me barlowing. The bit I edited was I was asking if i got a high quality 10m instead of 5m ep would i lose much quality if i barlowed. Shortly after i posted i removed it, because i was contradicting myself, as a barlow will reduce quality somewhat, and i'm after the best quality i can get, i'd be going backwards. It was only that this ep is sooo expensive that i thought i'd be better of doubling it's use. So I am sticking with the 5m and not getting lost in the confusion.

[Starkler]

For years I was using 10.5 and 14mm pentaxs barlowed as my planetary viewing combos and only fairly recently added a 7mm pentax for native use.

If you use a good barlow, you really only loose very very little with a few percentage points of extra light scatter.
A pentax XW coupled with a good barlow like a televue or orion deluxe will give you a much more pleasing view in a dob than say a tmb planetary, and I doubt you could perceive any difference in sharpness from an ortho.

A lot of people who carry on as purists on forums will imo exaggerate tiny differences. Ask Dave47tuc what difference there is between Zeiss and UO orthos and whether the tiny almost imperceptable difference is worth spending many multiple times as much.

You really need to see for yourself and get an idea of whats important to you and to develop though experience a personal system of weightings to the various characteristics of different eyepieces before deciding what compromises to make in deciding to spend your hard earned.

[torana68]

woo hoo ! was beginning to think I was the only one :eyepop: Ill sneak off quietly now.... :D

[GrahamL]

Fair enough :) .. but your still backing that eyepiece to be your
most reached for and at 240x ?. it will never be imo no matter what the quality. Around 100 x (insert prefered brand) is somewhere you'll spend a lot of time .. throw in your barlow and bump things to 200x or so, if seeing isn't supportive you remove it ..the only redundant thing is that magnification, both the barlow and that eyepiece will still do there job , just not together.

[Suzy]

Okay, I see your point guys, I myself wasn't happy to pay so much money in an eyepiece that i couldn't multi use by barlowing. I will go for a 9m or 10m then. If it was to stay under the $200 I would have been happy with a straight 5m.

[Liz]

Great thread Suzy!! Lots of valuable info on EPs. :thumbsup:

[renormalised]

You also have to remember this...the older you get, the larger the exit pupil has to be for you to see anything out of an ep'. What makes this even worse is if you have a problem with your eyes to begin with. A 5mm ep is great when you have excellent eyes and they're still able to focus down to such a small exit pupil (like when you're young), but most adults strain getting down to a 7mm exit pupil. If you have any trouble with such small ep's, a way around this (which also works for those monster 40mm or greater ep's when you're looking at huge faint fuzzies or in search and track mode) is to get yourself a camera like a GStar EX and do all your observing through a PC or even a small TV screen. It might not seem as pure as using the ol' Mark 1 Eyeball, but it can be just as rewarding:)

[marki]

The the XW pentex EP's are pretty special when it comes to detail and contrast and my favourite EP's period. I have both 10mm and 14mm versions and they are well worth the cash. They offer greater contrast than the ethos EP's (I have 10mm,13mm and 17mm versions) and are great for viewing planets and small faint deep sky objects. Ortho's.... mah lot of noise about nothing really, with the XW 10mm at native focal length on the back of my LX200R I can see a dam site more then just the bands of Jupiter, the fine detail is exquisite even better on the mak. 2X mag with a quality barlow does not affect these EP's greatly and I have also barlowed the 14mm 5X and chucked it on an 80mm apo for laughs...to my utter amazment got a great view of the trapezium on M42 ...dim yes but sharp and well resolved. I also have 3 Vixen LV's 7mm, 9mm and 12mm. I have found these EP's produce ghosting in my scopes with a fair degree of light scatter.

Mark

[Suzy]

:thanks:

I want to thank each and everyone of you for your valued input into this
thread to help me. I really felt that you're were looking out for me, even though I haven't met you yet. As a result of all this great wealth of information, you have not only helped me, but will serve to help others as well.

I think I even wore some of you'll out! I hope your digits aren't numb from lengthy multiple responses some of you'll made! You know who you are... Wavytone, Starkler (Geoff) and Astro 77. A very big thankyou to you guys.

I decided to go for the Pentax XW 10mm and am excitedly waiting delivery. I got it second hand for $300, so was only $100 above budget (did I say "only?"). By the way, second hand Pentax XW's are hard to find second hand! Seems no one wants to part with them. After digging up the whole internet, I found only just one. And what a small world it is - because I know the person! How amazing is that?!

[marki]

Suzy they come up for sale every now and again in the classifieds on this forum but I certainly would not part with mine. Build quality is excellent as are the optics. You will love this EP though I don't fancy your chances of stopping at just one:P:).

Mark

[torana68]

.... is it there yet?

[Suzy]

It is in my possession! And it is fabulous! :D I feel so professional now :P.
I love the fact that it stays in my fov for ages and when I accidentally bump the dob, it's still there. A lot less working the dob that's for sure.

[torana68]

lol, but how much more detail can you see over the old ones?

[Suzy]

Yet to give it a proper workout. My first go with it was only 5 mts as the clouds were really bad so i didn't expect to see much. Just had to try it out to get it out of my system until the weather prevailed. The weather came good Thurs & Fri, but I didn't go out with the scope, and was hoping to do it today, but the weather doesn't look go so far (as usual). Wish I'd done it last night.

[torana68]

I am interested to hear what you think, so rug up and out you go... :)

[RobF]

Its probably my fault. I left everything set up in the back yard after being out Thur night - threw a tarp over it, which I almost never do. The forecasts looked good and it was a long weekend - what could possibly go wrong!

Sure enough Fri and Sat night have been cloudy (so far....) :(

At least gives me a chance to sort out some software nonsense I've been suffering.

[Suzy]

It's Brisbane Rob! You should know better! :poke: The chance of good weather here is 3 days out of 30. I think you just put too much confidence in the weather there, didn't you Rob?!:prey: :lol:
Actually, I got fooled too; after a couple of days of nice weather I thought for sure Sat. would be good :screwy: And pinned all my hopes on it to give the ep a work out. Putting "Mary Poppins" on was my next exciting thing to do :screwy: but then I fell asleep - even more exciting :screwy:

[Liz]

Has been so cloudy along Qld coast making it difficult to observe :sadeyes: ... last night clear here, but neighbours lights on, then the Moon was up. Maybe tonight. :question: I also have a new EP - a cheapie zoom, so will be interesting to give it a go.
Hope the Pentax will live up to expectations Suzy. :thumbsup:

[astroron]

:hi:Suzy, You should come and join us at Cambroon on the 15th this month, and give your scope and new eyepiece a good workout under DARK SKY'S not the light polluted Brisbane Sky's.
You will not be the only Female here:D:astron::stargaze::stargaze:

[RobF]

Ow - I might need that eye!
Careful looking through Ron's 16" dob Suzy - uncontrolled aperture fever can ensue.

Sorry can't get there this month Ron - Martin and I are scheming and plotting to head down to Ilford (South Pacific SP).

Tonight looking excellent. We've just driven back from Byron/Broken Head along the coast road, and was a bit of cloud over the Border Ranges, but otherwise entire coast looks clear.

Hope everyone gets some starshine tonight if you're able! :)
Still a bit of time before the moon is out. Hope I've tired the kids out enough...

[Jen]

:lol::lol::lol: i knew you would go over your budget :lol::lol: it always happens i wonder why that is :screwy::screwy::rofl::rofl:

So have you used it yet ? :P

Waiting for a full report :P

[Suzy]

WOW has it really been over two years since I bought this ep and never got back with my review, eeeek!

Well I bought the XW10mm and I love this ep so much that I will never ever part with it. Excellent contrast, pin point gorgeously rounded stars, handles dew well- until it's time to really quit when the mirror has given up! Very comfortable and I can see the entire field stop without pushing my eye into it. This is my most used (and treasured!) ep.
I loved it so much, that I also bought the XW 7mm :P (in favour of the 5mm as the thread is titled). Figuring it will get more use on most nights than a 5mm will. To which end is why I ended up getting the 10mm in the first place, so I could barlow down.

My journey began again a couple of months ago into looking for a 5mm. I hate fussing with barlows to barlow down my XW10mm. Yet again, the budget was under $200. :P
Guess what again.. no luck! :P
I was prepared to make compromises as I don't see this focal length getting a whole lot of use. My choices were narrowed down to the Baader Hyperion 5mm and the Explore Scientific 4.7mm.

My minimum requirement was nothing under 15mm eye relief as the ES eyepieces are advertised as. However after hearing that the true eye relief is more like 12mm, I decided to give it a wide berth. :mad2:

Then, Astro Pete kindly loaned me a Baader Hyperion 5mm to try. Three people at my scope (including me) saw horrid vignetting.:mad2: That meant that the 68 deg fov was whole lot lot smaller that you could see stuff- more like 55 deg. :mad2: On the upside, the middle of the fov was nice and black and sharp. I would have tolerated some poor performance on the edge, but seeing rings was a whole other distracting obstacle.
Possibly, a new user without prior experience to premiums would hold this ep in high regard. Perhaps I'm spoilt...:question: Astro Pete expected me to return it knowing I'm an XW fan, so I walked back in with tail between my legs :lol:. Note to self, once you get on the premium bandwagon, there's no turning back.:shrug:

Hmmm... so it came back to opening up my wallet for $360 for another XW5mm plus $40 shipping = $400. Eeeeek! So I'm back to shutting up and putting up with fiddling with barlows & the accompanying 2" adaptor I have to change for it. Grrrrr.:mad2:

[Poita]

I'm planning on getting the ES 4.7mm once they are back in stock. I'll shoot it over to you sometime so you can see if the eye relief is enough for you or not.

I am after a 5mm-ish eyepiece for solar viewing, but thought I may as well get something with a bit more FOV so it can do other duties.

[Suzy]

Peter, that would be awesome- thank you!

[Krumlov]

Hi Suzy,

Just found this thread and I am on a similar journey over in this thread: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=95157

Can you have a look there and give me any sage advice? :thanx:

[Les Kurma]

The TMB Planetary or its Aquila Equivalent is probably the best planetary ep under $70. It seems the Aquila is made by the same OEM.
A great very usable ep without the fancy price tag.

[Suzy]

Apologies Gavin, a few weeks ago when I went to offer some advice on your thread, John Bambury had beat me to it. It worked out for the better as he is king muck muck head honcho guru of eyepieces on here and the advice he gave was fantastic as usual. :) He has steered me very well in my collection. The XW10mm will NOT disappoint and to me it's worth every penny of $$$ spent.

[Suzy]

Well I finally went and did it! :whistle:

A few days ago I ordered the Pentax XW5mm. :D

I couldn't resist the special price they're selling at the moment through Adorama (http://www.adorama.com/searchsite/default.aspx?searchinfo=pentax+xw)i n the U.S. Only $280!!!! With the dollar working so well at the moment, it only costs $267.00 :D:D:D
The shipping is an extra $60, but that still brings the eyepiece in at only $330. I'm guessing shipping isn't affected by the dollar and is as is, but I don't really care because it's so cheap anyway.
OPT still have them selling for $360 with shipping on top of that (I think from memory when I last bought my XW10 it was $40).

So yaaaaaaaaay I can't wait for it to get here. :party:
Look out tight doubles and the homunculus in Eta Carina- I'm going to get you good! :jump:

haha this thread has gone totally full circle now with my original question. :lol:

[astroron]

I will have to order my 3.5mm NAGLER to show ya a real view of the Homunculus Suzy :P
Cheers:thumbsup:

[Suzy]

Show off. :P
Regarding your 16" dinosaur and that black thingy with green writing...
Size doesn't matter- it's how you use it. :P .............. :question::rolleyes:

[astroron]

Well if Size doesn't matter; you should go back to your six incher and let someone else have the 10";)

[Suzy]

:question: :question: :question: :question: :question:

I just think I got defeated by Mr Think Quick with the oversized scope. :mad2:

[ausastronomer]

Well Ron certainly won each and every round, but Suzy ended up with the best eyepiece :lol:

You will love that 5mm Pentax XW Suzy. It is every bit as good as the 7mm and 10mm XW's.

Cheers,
John B

[Suzy]

:lol: yeah Ron, what he said :P :lol:

Many thanks John, you've guided me well. :D
I plan on attacking your Bambo600 list soon, what a brilliant list, and not that I expect to get all 600 :lol:.

[astroron]

Suzy, I'll put my Naglers up against your Pentax any day, especially in my scope.
Your little pea shooter wouldn't hack having a class eyepiece in it that's why your eyepieces look so good:P
Cheers:thumbsup:

[Suzy]

At least my eyepieces don't inflict injury to the user- a reminder of said Nagler falling on your foot and breaking your toe. :P:P:P
Perhaps you need a lesson in how to handle eyepieces. :P:D

[astroron]

Come and give me a lesson Suzy;)

Eyepieces at 50 paces, let the duel begin.:D:lol:
I have handled a lot more quality glass in my time than you,being the proud owner of one of the top type of eyepieces in astronomy.:D
Your just a novice but you'll get there someday ;)
Cheers:thumbsup:

[skytry]

hi All,
Suzy,
I have enjoyed the read from start to finish, the comments on the forum have been enlightening thank you to all,

for me maybe, the next shall be as mentioned prior, Philips or similar webcam,
and monitor, collect, edit and save, and enjoy,

I shall be experementing with eyepieces, make decisions, discard the ones that do not come up too scratch, replace with quality,
as I have been advised here reading today what too look for and where too look ,

this entry has been most enjoyable,

regards,
Peter.

[doug mc]

I heve the TMB Planetarys 4,5,6mm, my only beef with them was light scatter on the moon. Recently i bought a 12mm solar system ler from Smart Astronomy and i prefer it to the TMBs. Sharp, long eye relief, no light scatter. 55 degrees fov. When observing the moon with my 8inch f/6, i find barlowing it with my baffeld barlows offers better views.

[Suzy]

Peter, many thanks for your feedback, I'm very glad this thread has been of help to you. In all the the threads that I've started, this one would definitely have to be my most favorite and the one I'm most proud of due to the large contribution here from so many people with good knowledge on eyepieces and even some added humor to lighten things up. :lol:
This thread is a huge education for sure.


Ron,
*ahemmm* :rolleyes: guess who's just ordered a Pentax (yeah him!). Enough said. :whistle:
Me thinx I've just had the last laugh.:lol:


I received my XW5mm yesterday! :D
Delivered inside a week of ordering and I was very impressed with the packaging- a very over-sized box with lots of plastic filled air bags. As usual, the XW came in it's bolt case.
I can't believe I'm admitting this, but I spent some time smelling the life out of that ep- I just love that new XW smell! :ashamed::lol:

I was reading through the warranty and I'd actually forgotten about this- Pentax XWs have a LIFE-TIME WARRANTY!
That applies to the original owner though.