Apple Mac Computers

[leon]

Hi guys, I have considered switching to Mac cComputer systems and was wondering, are they as good as I am lead to believe.

Unlike Microsoft XP and the like, what runs these machines and will they play with most of the software out there, like Canon Cameras and Photo editing programes.

I have to admit I know nothing when it comes to this type of machine, but have been told that they perform much bettter than what I have now, would this be true.

Many thanks if you wish to respond.

Leon:thumbsup:

[dannat]

Leon..it depends what you mean by runs much better.

Let me say i have been a MAC user for 5yrs - previous to that had only ever touched them occasionally at uni - i was a PC user. Would i ever go back - NO.
Why - several reasons,
startup time for one much better,
you do not get the machine just freezing or the BSOD..malfunctions on a mac like this happen, but only very occasionally.
viruses/trojans - while there are much reduced, as is email spam i have found.
Things just work on a MAC - & the users expect them too - and complain to apple when they don't
The fress software like iphoto/idvd/imovie is very easy to use - you usually don't need to read manuals to start using it

Bad points - some things just aren't mac compatible...all printers/cameras are..but some ccd's don't have mac drivers - some software is only windows based - you do have to search for alternatives (like nebulosity for stacking) usually there is a couple around.

Also internet firms don't offer much assistance..thoguh iwill day mac's are easier to setup anyway

There will be a bit of a learning curve - took me about 2 months on fairly constant use to be really proficient..if you are a casual user might take 6months to really know your way around - it helps if someone close by can offer assistance

Go for it - :thumbsup:

[DavidTrap]

Hi Leon,

I've had Macs since about 2001, when OS X came out. This was when the operating system became based on Unix. I have always found them to be extremely stable, and can honestly say that I can count the number of times they have completely crashed on less than both hands in that time.

There is a learning curve to understanding how the system operates, but it is easy if you have conquered Windows.

If you are changing over to Mac, you have to change your software too. This means new copies of Photoshop, Office, etc - the cost of which is not to be ignored.

For astronomy stuff on the Mac - I use Astroplanner and have dabbled a bit with The Sky X SAE. Otherwise I do boot up in Windows to run things like DSS & PHD. Unfortunately, Orion won't release a Mac version of the drivers for the StarShoot Autoguider, so PHD for Mac won't work with the SSAG.

Currently, I have my DSLR set up to download images using "tethering software". I would prefer to use some better tethering software on Mac, but am stuck with using the Windows versions because of the PHD limitation for guiding.

I am not sure about equivalent versions of serious software like Maxim DL - when I take the plunge to buy that, I was planning to use the Windows version.

You can run a virtual PC which boots up within the Mac OS to use Window's software, but I have just stuck with BootCamp which boots the computer up as a mac OR windows.

We now have 3 Macs, 2 iPhones & an Apple TV. The best thing about Mac is the integration between all these devices. It is not just the operating system or the computers themselves, but the Mobile Me site that shares your contacts, calendar & email between these devices. I can put an entry into my phone and within 2 minutes it will appear on my wife's phone, plus all of the other computer when next they are turned on and synced (which happens automatically).

The backup software is brilliant too. As soon as I turn my laptop on within range of my home network, it just starts backing up. I don't have to remember to think about it. You can open up a window and scroll back through time and see your computer as it was on X date and grab that file you deleted (or altered) and drag in back to the present.

All in all, I find they just work. I enjoyed fiddling with network settings, etc when I was at school & uni. Now I just enjoy plugging stuff in and it working - fullstop.

I'm interested to hear other's views on what Astro software is available - I might learn something useful!

Cheers
David T

[dugnsuz]

Hi leon - I'm using a 24" iMac for all my astro processing needs. I use the Dell laptop for capture etc at the scope - much easier!

After I've got my images on the CF card I import them into the Mac and convert to TIFF with the Canon DPP software (Mac version - on the same Canon disc).

New Macs have an INTEL processor which allows you to run both Mac and PC operating systems side by side thanks to emulation software such as VMware Fusion (approx $120AU). I then drag the TIFFS into the PC enviroment to stack etc in Images Plus which runs no problem - you can run the PC enviroment as a window within the Mac screen or go full screen so your Mac looks like a PC - all works really well, no dramas.
(You'll need a copy of your fave PC operating system also)

Once stacked I drag the Combined Stack into the Mac enviroment to work on with PS4 on the 24" screen - sweet!!!

All very easy and seamless!
PM me if you want, or give me a bell
For imaging I love the Mac.

Doug

[dugnsuz]

ps...the iMac is now a 27" screen:eyepop:

[Omaroo]

Yep - I have a new i7 iMac with 16GbRAM on order - should arrive Monday! :)

I'm using Parallels Desktop US$79) to run Windows apps while still running Mac OSX Leon - just like Doug who runs VMware. You don't need to run Windows OR OSX - you can run both at the same time.

http://www.parallels.com/landingpage/dskd38/?source=google_row&gclid=CJCRvKGT0aACFQdJegodw3MDzg

[rat156]

HI Leon,

Well, I'm an unashamed Mac fanboy. I have used them for about the last 20 years. I have a laptop and a MacPro at home. I bought an elcheapo auction PC for the observatory though. I do all my image capture on the PC (mainly because there isn't really alternative Mac based software), then take them to the MacPro. I use VMWare Fusion to emulate a PC environment to stack the images in CCDStack, then pass them over to the Mac version of Photoshop.

Why do I use a Mac? Like the others have said, they just work. I have had to rebuild the Observatory PC on a couple of occasions, not something I enjoy doing. I have had the system drive die on the Mac, which I then replaced with a new one and told Time Machine to rebuild my Mac, a few hours later all was good. It's also quite powerful, 8 cores, 10Gb RAM, four HDD slots and a 30" monitor to top it all off.

I just bought two of the 27" IMacs for work (to run instruments using XP) as we were trying to save space, all-in-one PC's were what we were after, but they only come with Windows 7 and aren't backward compatible because of hardware driver issues, something that doesn't happen with the internals of a Mac.

Cheers
Stuart

[iceman]

At work they replaced all of our Dell laptops with MacBook Pro's.

They're dual boot, can run Mac OSX or Win XP, or as others have said, you can run Mac OSX and have Win XP inside a VM window.

As a piece of hardware, I absolutely LOVE the macbook pro. The huge touch pad, two finger right click, two finger scrolling, all great. Took some getting used to not having home/end keys etc, but there are other shortcuts.

I have to admit not taking the time to learn MacOSX, so I pretty much use Win XP all the time. There are some issues running Win XP on a Mac machine, even though they're supposed to be compatible. Speaking with our desktop support person (after my HD died), a LOT of people at work have had issues with the macbook pro's running WinXP.

I'm currently on a loaner Dell laptop. It's big, clunky, boxy, heavy, battery life is less, etc.

As a piece of hardware, the macbook pro is brilliant.

[leon]

Many thanks for your very quick responses, you have nearly sold me, and I was actually looking at the 27" screen one today at JB, HI FI, they were selling that one with Dule Core, 4 Gig Ram, T Bite Hard Drive plus the usual extras for $2200.00, and the Quad Core for $2495.00.

Anyway I will research some more and see how we go.

Thanks for the offer Doug, I have PM'ed you mate. ;)

leon :thumbsup:

[DavidTrap]

Not a problem Leon,

I will never disagree with anyone who says Macs are more expensive than PCs. Changing over will cost you a lot of dollars if you upgrade your software too.

But if you consider the quote in your signature line, "Life is too short to look through bad glass" - one could justify the Mac vs PC arguement on that alone!

Cheers
DT

[Wavytone]

Hi Leon, Another Apple household here; for many years my workhorse at home has been a mac of one kind or another, while at work a PC.

A lot of my professional time has been spent designing and building large computer systems and at home the last thing I want to do is fiddle with another one at home, I just want one that works reliably like an appliance - turn it on and do what I want with a minimum of fuss.

Yes there is a premium but in my view it is easily worth it to have something that does work like an appliance. The tight, seamless integration with an iPhone, AppleTV and a backup drive with Time Machine all make it well worth having, and the synchronisation of accounts across multiple macs also works a lot more reliably than the Windows equivalents in the long run. Sure its not flawless - nothing is, these days, but sitting down to use my mac is usually a pleasure, rarely a chore. The analogy with"Life is too short to look through bad glass" is quite valid.

At work some of my colleagues are inveterate tinkerers - yet the Linux and windows tyros mostly seem to have a collection of ageing PC's at home in various states of disrepair and yet none that are actually fully functional.

Lastly, on a few occasions I have given macs to people who were really struggling to keep a PC working; in each case they have loved their mac for its dependability, and never looked back.

[Analog6]

I've used Macs since the Lisa and owned them since the Se (I still have my SE (upgraded to an amazing 4Mb RAM!!) and the carry case and all the programs). You won't regret switching over.

Currently I use a 24" iMac for all my work, the PC I bought just before I got this has never been turned on (I must sell it).

For photo editing you can't go past them, the only better monitors, IMHO, are the Eizo which are $2500 and upwards. I use Aperture 2, CS4, and download via media card reader. As my astronomy interest is photography at the moment I don't have any astronomical software, but it is on the line down the track.

I have a wireless setup using Airport Extreme and also have a 15" MacBook Pro and an old Titanium laptop, all work seamlessly within range.

[stephenb]

Thanks to Leon for posting this. I too, am seriously considering moving to a Mac this year, and becoming completely removed from MS products.

My iPhone/iPod/iTunes setup just works seemlessly. So simple to use. I have at two people at work who have swiched to Mac, who were dedicated PC people, and they say they will never go back.

[Omaroo]

This will pump you up a bit - a video from a guy that bought a 27 inch iMac and that is using a Mac for the first time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEpPCyj3Mpg&feature=related

[leon]

Just about gives you goose bumps Chris, and the desire to run out as we speak and get it all happening.

Leon

[tonybarry]

I'd add that I use a Mac, and have found Nebulosity 2 a very good tool for astro image acq / stacking. I also use AstroPlanner - very good software.

The PC does have some adherents, and there are (in general) more applications available for it. This has not bothered me - what I need I have, and I have a compiler to make the stuff I don't have if I need it really badly.

Regards,
Tony Barry

[mercedes_sl1970]

Leon - ditto to pretty much everything said above except I can't comment on astro-imaging. We're on our second mac - "just a Macbook" (latest version) and prior to that an iBook G4. In summary - they just work and do what they do very, very well.

Good luck

Andrew

[leon]

Thanks Andrew, I'm not to worried about astro stuff at the moment I have the lappy for that if need be, just thought it would be a good main machine.

leon

[dugnsuz]

Then we're decided then!!??;)

[dannat]

if you like Leon next time i go to snake valley i can come around & give you a play..or seeing as how you have bought yours it seems show you some of the shortcuts

[leon]

Errr Dougie, I would very much like to run out there tomorrow and do it, just have to convince the little lady of the house that this is the way to go. :question:

She tells me she cant even handle the machine she has now, :shrug: how in the hell am i going to operate an IMac.

Easy dear I tell her, :whistle::whistle: you would be a master at it in no time.

Mate I think it will happen, just have to unload this machine. :bashcomp: and :juggle: a few things. ;)

Leon :thumbsup:

[dannat]

can i just say i think the telling thing is that no PC guys have come in to bat for their workhorses..yet if you start bagging mac's their users (me included) will fight to the death to uphold their honour

[supernova1965]

I only fight for things worth fighting for if I had it my way I would go out right now and buy a Mac. But I have had to build all my home computers and Mac parts and old machines don't get recycled as much as PC bits:mad2: so the resilience of MAC's is working against me:sadeyes:. Another good advertisement for MAC's and their operating system.

[Barrykgerdes]

The Mac v PC argument has been around for nearly 30 years now and we all have actually profitted by it.

Back in the early 80's comuters were based on 8 bit processors using the Z80 cpu and then the 8086/8088 that had a 16 bit capability or the Apple system that used the Motorola chips. The other systems that were less flexible eventually went.

Both systems had their adherents. Apple was the smaller guy who came up against the corporations.

In 1982 IBM released the PC which brought computing into the new world of IT. Apple still produced its product and kept on improving it but IBM's open architecture design allowed cheap clones to be made of the PC and so it cornered the market.

Apple concentrated on home computers that were complete and the IBM clones went for the user upgradeable line.

The corporate use of the IBM machines meant that more software was developed for these machines than the Apple line but the many configurations of the PC that appeared meant that all programs did not work on all machines. However Apple developed its own suite of programs that emulated anything that was available for the PC and it did work on all its products.

Over the next 25 years both systems progressed to what we have now although Apple transfered to the Intel series of chips that had been used by the PC.

However we now have virtualisation that allows programs to be universal and work on either system.

The big difference now is price. Apple computers seem to run at about twice the price of the cheaper Chinese clones but do seem to be more reliable than the PC clones. However without the original open architecture of the IBM PC that allowed cloning all these computers would now be at least twice the price they now sell for.

I personally prefer the do it youself PC clones because they suit my experimenting better but for non technical people I believe the Apple is a better proposition and its graphical interface is extremely good.

Barry

[Octane]

Daniel,

If you like, I can pretend to be Ian Robinson and make some spiteful comments related to the price of Apple products?

For what it's worth, I use my home PC for mainly image processing. The Intel system I've had built does it beautifully and Windows7 is wonderful.

I personally couldn't justify the cost of an iMac.

H

[Omaroo]

LOL! Not when you go splashing thousands around on new CCD cameras Humayun. ;)

Using a Mac is about the experience. Unless you've used one in earnest, and that doesn't mean a quick tinker at JBHiFi, you'll not understand where they come from. Simply comparing apples with apples isn't going to show you the benefits. Both Windows machines and Macs do what you need them to do. Jaguars and Holdens both get you from A to B too... It's in the fine detail that Macs win hearts - and there's plenty of it. Macs are for people who appreciate the machine and the work that has gone into the hardware to make it look great as well as work great. Is that necessary? Probably not - but neither is a sports car.

[Octane]

Chris,

Don't get me wrong -- I'd love one. I'm constantly eyeing them.

Thing is, as you've mentioned, is it a necessity? Nah. Are my images that horrible that I need to use a Mac to improve on them?

I know how awesome the user experience is. But, at the end of the day, Windows7 and IRIS and Photoshop are doing what I want them to do. And, quickly!

The only other things I run are Starry Night Pro Plus, an MP3 player and a browser for YouTube, IceInSpace and photography/art web sites.

Again, I can't justify the cost at the moment. Please don't take my comment as bagging or disparaging the Mac -- I guess Daniel just invited me to play devil's advocate and I obliged. For $1,200 I have a machine with oodles of RAM, a good quality video card, and a couple of OSs that don't skip a beat (Solaris 10 and Windows7).

The money spent on the CCD was a now-or-never type situation.

H

[Omaroo]

Wasn't taken that way at all Humayun :) My comment was made in general context, and not in reaction to anything. :thumbsup:

[supernova1965]

Isnt it amazing how the world works I just posted this yesterday and what should turn up at the local recycling center but a PowerMac G5 with 2gig of ram and a good graphics card I haven't seen it yet I will pick it up tommorow. I am nearly jumping out of my skin with excitement I hope it works. Can anyone tell me about this model I think it is the 1.8 mhz with 2 processors dual core 64bit. The only thing missing is a HDD which is the thing you want to be missing as you can use any HDD to replace it:cool::2thumbs::party2:

[Omaroo]

I've used this one at home Warren since I bought it in 2003. It's been used daily for graphics-intensive work and it has NEVER missed a beat. Not one. Seven years old and I still use it as my main machine. I've had numerous PC's around the house and none survived during that time - not even the Q-9550 QuadCore. I'm expecting a 27" i7 iMac next week, but I'll be keeping the DualG5 forever.

It's the the dual-processor 1.8GHz G5 tower (900MHz bus), but mine has 4Gb of RAM onboard. It has a GeForce FX5200 as standard, and is a great display card for its day.

You'll LOVE it. The best of PPC-based Macs, and running Leopard it's as STABLE-as. Even when they went to 2.7GHz, they really weren't noticeably faster. Well, maybe a tiny bit. One thing I love about these is how fast they go to sleep. Mine goes to sleep in about a second - and wakes up in the morning in five. They are as quiet-as, with the fan noise almost imperceptible until the processors need a little cooling once in a while, when you hear the "turbo" whine for 10 seconds until they cool again. The internal air baffle is beautifully crafted, and air moves through the machine superbly. Also - not a cable in sight as they're all hidden from view. Just typical effort and detail they go to.

The hardware is the best I've ever seen in a commercial system - the "Takahashi" of the desktop computer world in my opinion. The cabinet quality is simply stunning, and it's a work of art inside - as though it's machined from billet aluminium. Quite incredible industrial design. Bung in a 1Tb SATA drive for a hundred bucks or so and away you go. Make sure you do run Leopard, because you get multiple desktops and all the new trinkets. :thumbsup: Mine's a little beaten up as I used to drag it into the office every other day for nearly two years. A laptop just didn't have the power.:)

Here's mine with my MacMini on top. It, too, is a good little machine, and I'm configuring it as my astro field machine, running Windows XP under GuestPC. Not bad - running XP on a PPC!

[supernova1965]

I have used Leopard at TAFE and absolutely love it I am over the moon just got to hold it together incase it is dead:D

[supernova1965]

Sweet machine I hope it gives you just as many good years as the G5. I have a couple of G4 Mac's that I have to see if I can get working but I think they will be waiting for a while now that I have the G5 to play with.

[Omaroo]

I need the i7 iMac because it's Intel-based. Adobe's CS4 InDesign and Aperture only run on an Intel now - they are no longer Universal apps, unlike Photoshop. Same for the Topaz Labs Photoshop filters. That's progress I guess!

[supernova1965]

Have you heard about the 3D operating system that Apple are working on here is a link looks exciting.

http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple-prepping-3d-operating-system--493856

By the way what sort of cooling is it I heard that they can have water cooling I kind of hope not as it might have leaked and wrecked the computer and that is why it has been thrown out.

[Omaroo]

Nah - you won't need to worry. The 2.5GHz Quad PowerMac G5s, with the four CPU execution cores had liquid cooling, not the dual-single core models like ours.

Yours has probably been discarded because it's just, well, old now! There are far faster machines on the block these days. It still doesn't detract from the G5's real-world performance though, they are still plenty quick - especially with graphical applications.

The liquid-cooled CPU assembly - pretty freakin' funky for its day:

Leon - my apologies for diverting the original thread. It's turned into a bit of an Apple-fest. Sorry! :(

[Omaroo]

Wow - what a day.

I picked up my new 27" iMac QuadCore this afternoon.

Along with it came a 1Tb Time Capsule backup drive system and a 160Gb Apple TV!!! :D:D:D

All I can say is that I'm gobsmacked by the display and speed of the thing. The 2560x1440 screen is simply the best I've ever, ever, used - bar none. It's simply gorgeous.


Wow. Happy chappy. :thumbsup:

[dugnsuz]

drool

[leon]

Nice one Chris, hope it all works for you for years to come.

leon