ArgoNavis & Stellarium

[jakob]

I would like to mount an EEpc on my LB16 and feed in the output from the ArgoNavis to show me the pointing position in Stellarium.

Has anybody done that?
Is Stellarium capable to do this?
Could the PC be running in Linux for this?
Is 1 Gig memory adequate?

Any advise very welcome,
Jakob.

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Jakob

Stellarium does not have a driver for the argo navis. There may be a ASCOM driver that can be used.

Gary may be able to help with the protocol for reading the argo navis from which a driver could be developed.

According to the argo navis site it can be interfaced to the computer that runs many programs including Meade.
Is there a LX200/Autostar interface.

Barry

[gary]

Hi Jakob,

Thanks for the post.

Firstly thanks to Barry on the follow-up.

One of the features of Argo Navis is that one can select from a variety of
telescope protocol emulations to run on either of the independent Argo
Navis serial ports.

Using the MODE SETUP, SETUP SERIAL menus, one can select a serial
port and assign a communications rate to that port (i.e. BAUD rate). The Baud rate
should match that selected on the planetarium program on the PC. One can also select
what we refer to as a STARTUP command, which is a telescope protocol
emulation.

For example, one of the telescope protocols that Argo Navis provides is an emulation of
the Meade LX200 protocol. Since just about all known planetarium programs
provide support for Meade protocol, Argo Navis can be interfaced to all known
planetarium programs.

A quick look shows that at least some Eee PC's come equipped with USB ports.
By using an USB Serial Adapter with an appropriate Linux driver, one should
be able to obtain a serial RS-232 interface. The Keyspan USA-19HS USB Serial
Adapter comes with a Linux driver but one would need to carefully check whether
the Eee PC Linux kernel is configured to accept a loadable driver.

By the way, the ASCOM interface will be of no use on a Linux platform as it
is highly dependent on features in the Windows OS.

However, as mentioned, if Stellarium supports Meade protocol, then there
is no need for ASCOM.

I've never run Stellarium and certainly never on an Eee PC. However, I have just
downloaded a copy of Stellarium onto a Linux machine here and I will have a
look at it for you some time during the day when time permits. Stellarium requires
a software graphics layer called OpenGL and again one would need to check
whether the Eee PC as configured comes with OpenGL support or if there is
an option to load it.

Are you in possession of the Eee PC as yet or is this something you are simply
considering?

Almost certainly when the other technical matters mentioned above are considered,
a 1GB memory space would be more than enough to run an application such as this
under Linux.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[jakob]

Hi Garry,
Thank you for your response.
I just picked the Eepc as a low-cost small PC, I'm looking for the simplest way to implement this idea.
There is also a version that comes with XP & 1 G. memory.
I own a copy of Starry Night Pro V5 but as it is out of date, so the Stellarium way would be attractive.
Before I purchase a PC I need to establish its suitability.

Going to Linux may be complicating things unnecessarily if 1G memory is adequate for Stellarium under XP.

Thanks for your help.
Regards J.
______________________

Hi Barry,
Thanks for your comments.

What do you think, will 1Gb memory be adequte to run Stellarium under XP?
I'm not familiar with Linux, but I belief it does not require as much memory as Windows.

Regards J.

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Gary and Jakob

Firstly thanks Gary for info on the protocol. If it responds to the Meade protocol it should be OK and that will automatically allow us to add Argo Navis to our list of telescopes that includes the Celestron Nextstar and all the Meade clones eg G11 Gemini, Autostar and now Argo Navis. Great! An argo navis is on the list of items I need to get for testing purposes. Could then put it on the Meade 16" lightbridge

Jakob

What version of Stellarium have you got. Some of the earlier versions need external drivers for the telescopes. The later ver 0.10.3 has an integrated set of drivers. Drop down and I will give you a build of one of the later versions and show you how it works. Have you made a cable for attachment to the computer yet. If not I can probaly make you one. I run Stellarium with 500MB of memory.

I would like to confirm that the Argo Navis works so that I can add it to our list before the next release of Stellarium which is scheduled for the beginning of next month (with a bit of luck).

Barry

[jakob]

Barry,
That sound great!
I don't have Stellarium yet.
When you say 500kB, is this in Linux ox Windows XP?

I do have a cable for the AN, but I haven't tested it with my USB-RS232 dongel yet.
(I think I made it when I used it with the Mead ETX105 I used to have.)

If you want to do some testing with the AN, we can get together and I'll bring my AN, let me know.

Regards J.

[gary]

Hi Jakob,

Just some quick initial feedback.

I downloaded the Stellarium version 0-10.2 source for Linux and various other
required dependency files. This can take quite some time, depending upon which
packages you have pre-loaded. For example, you need to load cmake
and the QT version 4 development tools along with several other packages.

Compiling the source then went cleanly, but there are several run time errors that
are likely to be associated with a bug in the stellarium "make install" step
that seems not to be putting various configuration files where the executable
expects them.

Given that it is only Version 0-10.2, it looks as if the Stellarium for Linux
install still has some teething problems. Undoubtedly some further investigation
could determine the source of the problem.

The Windows version is available as a pre-complied executable so is likely to
give a smoother "out-of-the-box" experience.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Gary

Stellarium 0.10.2 had a few little bugs that were sorted out very quickly. Mainly to do with video drivers. What Linux platform do you use. I have Ubunu 9.10 but I can't compile the latest version due to the change to Qt 4.6.0.

There are some precompiled linux packages available for stellarium 0.10.2 However your best shot is to to download build 5545. the last one that can be compiled with Qt 4.5.0 which is the Qt version that will download with the rest of the dependancies. This should run well on Linux if you have OpenGl drivers for your video.

If you get the Windows version of 0.10.2 you can up date it with a patch downloadable from www.iceinspace.com.au/uploads/4747.zip (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/uploads/4747.zip).

If you run Windows I can give you pre-compiled versions that should work on most platforms although the latest build (today is very buggy due to the change to Qt 4.6.0) the last reasonably stable version was build 5078 but build 5545 isn't too bad.

Barry

[gary]

Hi Barry



I complied it on Ubuntu 9.10 with Qt-Version 4.5.2. The stellarium.org web site
mentions 0.10.2 is based on QT 4.5.

The nature of the run-time error is that files like data/countryCodes.dat aren't
installed where the executable seems to expect them. Specifically it is looking
for them in /usr/local/share/stellarium but never installed them there during the
'make install'. A quick workaround is to symbolically link /usr/local/share/stellarium
to the source directory, in which case, stellarium runs.



OK! Thanks! Will have a look at the Linux executable that is running first.

Best Regards

Gary

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Gary

I only build in linux when there are problems with the windows build

I always put the source code into a folder stellarium and make the build file stellarium\builds\unix
From that folder I run cmake ../.. and then make. I don't bother with the make install. Saves space in my limited linux partition

I then just copy the stellarium executable from stellarium\builds\unix\src to stellarium and run from there

The plugin modules need to be build separately up to the current build.

These days I build in windows mostly because I am the only one building there regularly and lots of problems show there that don't occur in Linux or on on a Mac. MinGW is a fiddly compiler for c++ sometimes.

Barry

[mithrandir]

This is the sort of thing that drives me stark staring mad.

What is the advantage of 4.6.0 that makes jumping on the bleeding edge bandwagon necessary?

Are 4.5.2 and 4.5.3 irreparably broken?

If Qt can't get it right and keep it stable why did Stellarium opt for eye candy over reliability?

[Barrykgerdes]

I know of no advantages with Qt 4.6.0, only problems particularly with the MinGw interface. Qt 4.5.0 was nice and stable and Stellarium was going nicely with only one or two minor bugs that have been now been fixed.

I think one of the problems is developing on the Mac platform only 4.6.0 is available now and they have to use it.

The source code in Stellarium has now been changed to make Qt 4.6.0 a requirement so I can no longer compile with 4.5.0. Coupled with some added facilities (that don't work very well) in Qt 4.6.0 that allowed using the Qt method of displaying jpg and png graphics and loading of the star catalogues in a different way have actually put the development of Stellarium back about 6 months.

There are four principal problems that make the present Windows version unsatisfactory for release.

1. The handling of the ocular plugin that allows typical eyepiece views is not transportable between all windows installations due to the use of the sqlite database system. There were no major difficulties when using the *.json files.

2. The display of the png and jpg textures is woeful under many conditions and there are different effect with different video display systems. There were no problems using the old dll's

3. The loading of the star catalogues first time takes about 2 minutes for catalogues through 7 but crashes if you try to load catalogue 8 as well.
The old method only took about 10 seconds. This problem is not noticed if you only load the first 4 catalogues.

4. Stellarium does not display in Vista. It loads but just displays an empty window. Vista with Qt 4.5.0 was very good and did not have the problem of loading all star catalogues.

These are the worst of the problems.

There is a small problem with the telescope interface. The integrated drivers don't work at the moment however the option to load them from the older source is available and works correctly.

Barry

[trent_julie]

Hi all,

After reading this thread I decided to try our LB16 combined with stellarium, I set the serial port on Argo as described in Gary's earlier post.
I am using;
Argo Navis
Stellarium 0.10.2
StellariumScope 2009.3.3.56
Windows XP on a HP mini,
A picaxe USB to Serial Coverter (AXE 027 this cable I can also download to the Argo)
And a custom cable to suit the above serial adapter
"Meade classic and Autostar" ASCOM Driver in StellariumScope

The telescope curser appears on stellarium and also tracks when the LB16 moves in Az and ALT ,however, things fall apart when you try and tell the scope to move to an object......... not to worry I can live with that.
Thanks again to Gary for a fantastic bit of kit

Cheers,

Trent and Julie

[gary]

Hi Trent & Juile,

Thanks for the post.

If you dial up MODE CATALOG, FROM PLANETARIUM, then Argo Navis will
display the GUIDE information to an object when you click on it on a PC
screen and request a GOTO. The planetarium program will transmit the RA/Dec
co-ordinates to Argo Navis and in turn Argo Navis will resolve that into the
amount by which you need to move the mount in Az and Alt. You can use
Argo Navis to zero in on the target by moving the scope with what John Dobson
refers to as "yoghurt power". Some refer to this mode of operation as PUSHTO. :thumbsup:

Thanks again for the post and for the kind words.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Gary

The new release of stellarium has a telescope driver entry for
"Wildcard Inovations Argo Navis (Meade mode)"

The problems mentioned in a previous post have been fixed and the new release goes great.

Barry

[gary]

Hi Barry,

Fantastic! Thanks for the 'heads-up' and I will have a look! :thumbsup:

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[jakob]

Barry,
I have intsalled V 10.3 on my XP desk PC, but I need some help with the device settings.
The Keyspan USB to Serial is set to Com2, 38400B, 8bits, no parity, 1stop, no flow control.
Using Agronaut, I'm able to communicate with AN and get replies to meade comands.

In Stellarium, set to Wildcard AN, I left the default settings at 'localhost TCP port 10001.
AN is set to startup 'meade', serial1, 38400B.
The AN is aligned and works as it should but I don't get a Telescope cursor on the screen.

Can you advise what I may be doing wrong?
Is there a sequence on when to start AN, before or after Stellarium?

I think Stellarium is fantastic an will be a good complement with AN.

Many thanks for your advise. Regards Jakob.

[Barrykgerdes]

I am not sure what the trouble could be except Meade connections expect 9600B
I start stellarium. Then configure the telescope port to COM1 or COM2 whichever the USB-RS232 adaptor likes to use at 9600B and 500000 us delay then select the telescope from the telescope panel and press connect. The "not connected" changes to "connected" (sometimes you see a momentary connecting) and the cursor will appear on the screen at the position the Argo Navis is at. From there you can select a star in stellarium, press ctrl 1 (or whatever number it is) and the entry will transfer to the Argo Navis. You then push the telescope to the indicated position of the object and if you are watching stellarium the cursor should follow your pushing.

Barry

[jakob]

Barry,
Many thanks for the quick reply and the Solution!:):thanx:
Changed the Baude rate and Bingo! Works like a Dream!:thumbsup:

Now I will tackle the Laptop. My ultimate aim is to mount a 10" Mini Notebook on the stalk with the AN.

Thank for all the help.
Regards Jakob.

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi JaKob

I got one of those eM250 machines from Coles this morning to see how they work. They are great as a mini laptop. Runs stellarium 0.10.3 faultlessly at up to 30 fps. hooks up the to telescope etc.

It has a 1024 x 600 screen 1GB of memory and 8MB of video memory.
A bit hard to get all the software onto it because it doesn't have its own DVD but I just installed everything via the LAN..

Barry

[erick]

How much was it, Barry?


UPDATE:- I found this "Just 5 hours ago I bought an Acer eM250 eMachine Netbook from Coles for $389.00."

Thanks

[jakob]

Sound good! This is the size of Notebook I want to fix to my LB.
I just tested Stellarium & AN on my Vista Notebook and it works great !

I love Stellarium, the Occular plug in will be very useful in helpinn to find fainter objects, can't wait to try it.
But looking outside it will be a while before the sky clears.:mad2:

Jakob.

[erick]

Got one! Going to make it my Astro computer (I don't have great demands on it - Stellarium, Jupiter2, look at pretty piccies and DSLR Shutter) Still in its box - haven't had time to unpack. Loading Stellarium will be an early move!

[mithrandir]

Can we have a quick count of the number of IISers who have acquired an eM250 in the last few days? Are we keeping Coles in business?

Without trying too hard there's erick, baz, and me. :D If I run Stellarium, CdC, VMA, Jupiter2, and Comet on it the T40 can cope with PHD and Nebulosity.

[erick]

I tried to get one from JB Hifi which advertised two dollars cheaper - but with $39 (I think it was) cashback from Acer. But there was only one listed in all Melbourne stores.

So Coles it was. Power supply is 19V and I have just checked and my 12V in DC-DC converter has a 19V out setting - beauty!

Started loading stuff last night.

Stellarium worked well. You can make it groan a bit if you turn on lots of things (constellation lines, borders, names, both grids :)) but with just constellation lines (my usual approach), the view can be scrolled at a good speed.

Now to get a better virus stopper onto it. I didn't bother enabling the supplied Norton.

Now, I have to work out how to use DSL Shutter through a USB port, and also perfect connecting Stellarium to the Argo Navis unit.

[Barrykgerdes]

I have already been at mine, repartitioned it, put all my favourite programs on it including all the dependabcies to build Stellarium from the source code. It now does everything that the main computer does (at the same speed too). Handy little device. I can now go to bed and work from there!

I removed norton and put AVG 9.0 (free) on it

Baz

[Barrykgerdes]

Something else I have noticed on the eM250. If I move or do anything on screen the fps is around 20 - 30 fps but when I stop the fps drops to 4.5 fps. I guess this automatically reduces demand on the cpu (and saves power).

I set the Min fps to 4.5 in the config .ini

Barry

[Lyinxz]

Jakob, any updates? how is it all working now?
I envision Stellarium accuractley shows the position of your OTA on the screen? is there any delay between the software and AN?

Im very keen to also use this setup somewhere down the track.

[jakob]

Its working greate.:):)
Not had a chance to use it in the field yet,
Curser follows the scope without much delay.

I,m waiting to take the LB to the Pony Club in March.
J.