maxim dl 5

[dpastern]

Well, the box finally arrived :-) I've had the software installed for about a week (download), but haven't had a full chance to play with it yet due to my cold, etc. I've found a couple of tutorials as well online, so pretty happy. Oh, and the user guide in the boxed set is MASSIVE, although I'd hoped for a bound book, rather than a spiral book, which will probably have pages go missing over time :(

If anyone wants to donate some fits data files for me to play with, that'd be really nice ;-)

Dave

[Tandum]

http://starshed.net/m27.zip

LRGB data set with cal files.
Says another 40minutes to upload.
That's 83meg, a QHY8 data set comes to around 600meg :(

[dpastern]

Thanks Robin - I will start to download it around 11.30 to make sure it's all uploaded :)

Dave

[Tandum]

You won't get anything till it's there and it just timed out and restarted. It now says 28minutes.

One of my images appeared on a website and my site appears to be taking a flogging trying to dish it up :(

[dpastern]

well, I'll be up for another 45 mins to an hour, I'll see what happens, otherwise I'll grab it when it's available :)

Dave

[Tandum]

Done. Pop me a PM when you have it please.

[jase]

Let the frustra...errrmmm I mean learning curve begin, Dave. Nothing like jumping off the deep end. MaximDL is like a Swiss army knife, handy tool to know how to operate, just don't get your fingers in the way. Stick at it and learn what it does to your data. Enjoy!

http://www.mistisoftware.com/astronomy/index_fits.htm

[Tandum]

I think all those files are fully calibrated in the first place jase.

[dpastern]

Just started downloading it now, should be done in under 10 mins. Good connection, averaging just under 300kb/sec. Will PM you when it's done (off to finish this episode of Nightwalker anime)



hehehe Jase. Now I'm scared! Oh well, I bought it, now I gotta use it. From what I can see, there are no books on how to use maxim dl, that's a bit of a surprise and a pity. Photoshop is a complex beast and I was as scared as (of using/learning it), but I'm reasonably adept at it now. If I can learn Photoshop, I'm sure I can learn maxim, although it might take a few years ;-)

How do their free downloads work? Is that for minor updates only, or major ones as well, such as maxim dl 6?

Dave

edit: OMG, I forgot about Jim Misti's website! I actually have one of my repros up there from a year or so ago (M31) repro.

[jase]

Indeed Robin, but if all you're using MaximDL for is calibrating the data, its not worth purchasing. So many other cool and neat features available that can be tested on a variety of data sets.

Dave,
If you've mastered Photoshop, MaximDL is relatively easy in comparison. That said after completing intermediate and advanced Photoshop courses, I still don't have a strong handle on all of its possibilities. I'm discovering CS4 seems to have quite a few hidden gems.

[dpastern]

I'd say I'm intermediate at Photoshop. I used to dread and hate photoshop before I bought it, but now I really love using it. I find it really fun, weird aren't I? I'm using CS2, can't justify upgrading to CS4. Well, not yet lol.

Dave

[marki]

Dave I use it for capture and the grunt work (calibrating etc). Have used it to process but prefer CS4. Just got CCDstack to try out as well :D. There's lots of stuff to find and play around with in maxim though.


Mark

[dpastern]

I've decided that I'll get ccdsoft, as well as sky 6, starry night pro 6, ccdinspector and astroart. You can never have too much software lol (spoken like a true geek hahaha).

Dave

[AlexN]

I love Maxim.. Its got a great slew of very powerful pre-processing tools.. Things like DDP, deconvolution etc.. I use maxim for capture, I still use DSS for stacking and calibration, however I then take the unprocessed tiff's back into maxim for DDP, and a few other bits and pieces.. I create a few different tiff's from the original, one with a mild deconvolution just to tighten up stars, one with rather heavy deconvolution to sharpen up details.. then I'll move these files into Photoshop CS4 and use layer masks to tighten up the stars without bringing in noise or those dark halo's, then another mask to layer in the sharpened heavily deconvoluted details etc.. I find myself going back and forth between programs from capture to final processed image..

Dave, What guide camera are you using? I hope its MaximDL compatible.. Since I started using Maxim for guiding as well as imaging, the load on my laptop has gone down significantly compared to using PHD for guiding and Maxim for imaging...

Have fun with Maxim mate... Its rather involved, but once you get used to it, its really quite fantastic.

[dpastern]

I have an Orion auto guider unit. I believe it's compatible with maxim dl. I haven't gotten that far yet, problems with mounting guide scope (will probably post about on Sunday coming, time to watch anime now and then sleep, work tomorrow and away for Thursday night, Friday and Saturday).

Dave

[marki]

The orion works fine in MaximDL Dave, no worries at all. Alex I tend to do the same but also flick over to ALP4Win as well. Funny how no one program will do it all :). I run everything, focuser, scope, camera, filterwheel, guide camera through Maxim and have been using it in conjunction with CCD inspector, Pem pro, focus max etc for yonks. Still have to build an observatory before I bother with maxpoint (have a copy of that as well :D). Dave you will need starry night to bind with Maxim which adds more fun to try getting it all going but there is also a small planetarium program withing Maxim 5 as well if you want to keep it simple.

Mark

[Geoff45]

Interesting comment about the laptop. What was the effect when you used PHD and Maxim, as opposed to just Maxim? I've been having a bit of trouble getting good guiding using Maxim for camera control and PHD for guiding, so next free clear night I intend to give the Maxim solo a try.
Geoff

[AlexN]

When guiding, maxim only downloads a 20x20px section of the guide cameras image.. this lessens the load on the USB bus and also on the CPU.. Guiding in Maxim is a lot more intuitive too.. Don't get me wrong, PHD is great, its easy and it just works (most of the time) however Maxim gives you far more control.. you can really fine tune your guiding...

[dpastern]

Oooh I didn't know Maxim did guiding. Bonus! Of course, I'll end up playing with both PHD and maxim. Nope, I haven't had a chance to do any attempts at imaging yet, have only just gotten back home earlier this afternoon. My guidescope won't attach to the main OTA/tube ring and I'll need to contact Bintel for some suggestions/help/assistance on it all. Once that's sorted out, and my health stays OK (yes, I'm still struggling to get over this cold, over 2 weeks old now), I'll be good to go.

Dave

[Bassnut]

Yes, Maxim sure does guiding. Alex is dead right, plus, carefully watching the guide error graph, understanding exactly what its telling you and tweaking every parameter in response to carefull analisys of the graph curves can give huge improvements in end image quality, particularly on lower quality mounts. At IISAC, I saw many ppl using default parameters, or guide software without many available adjustments and struggling generally with simply a lack of understanding of the optimum adjustments, or unable to adjust. IMO you pay for what you get, Maxim gives and it costs. Expensive gear and freebee software is often false economy and just leads to substandard results and fustration.

[dpastern]

That sounds quite reasonable logic Fred. Remember though, it's hard for us newbies to learn what should be done. We mostly take the easiest and least complex routes because that's what most tutorials out there suggest (rightly or wrongly). And, by all accounts, Maxim is a complex beast. I'm allowing 2-3 years of regular usage to really learn its ins and outs to be honest, probably longer!

You know what would be really cool? A meetup with many of IIS's top imagers - both for theory and practice. There are so many talented imagers here on IIS, and it would benefit the members to no end imho. You guys (experienced imagers) have excellent knowledge and skills, something that all newbies should look up to and aspire to. Sadly, that's a process that takes much learning and many years I feel.

Dave

[Bassnut]

Well, IIS reaches all corners of OZ, might be hard to organise ;-).

As Jase often says, very wisely, its often getting to know the software you have well, really well, and not chopping from one app to another, like I did to start and waste litterally months on learning curves, that counts (assuming you start with something reasonable, based not just on whether its free or not).

The best way to learn, is to fiddle and experiment with just one app untill you have it licked by yourself. Having someone tell you is fast, but you also forget quickly. Actually reading the manual, in painfull detail is also critical, how many here bother, aye?. I see countless inane posts that prove no attempt has been made to read the instructions.

end rant ;-)

[Tandum]

I always thought maxim was a single threaded application. ie: It never uses more than one CPU, so if you guide and image with it, it will have to pause guiding while it downloads an image. If it where multi threaded you would see it pulling more than 25% usage from a quad core while working/processing.

[dpastern]

hehehe Fred - that's one of the reasons why I paid US $100 more for the boxed set of MaximDL - so I *could* read the manual. I typically read the manual/user guide for nearly everything that I buy. I don't always understand what's written, but that's another story ;-)

I agree about fiddling too, even though by nature, I'm not really a fiddler.

I bought Donald Waid's instructional DVDs the other day to help with PP in Photoshop. I've been busy investing in the basics (hardware/software) of late, and now I need to get out there and get some imaging experience and most importantly, *learn* from it all.

I reckon a tutorial DVD from you [experienced] guys would be awesome. Pick a subject and do a vid presentation on it, and then combine it all into a workable piece of information. I'd buy something like that.

Dave

[Bassnut]

I dont know if Maxim is multi threaded, but it doesnt matter, its the cams that count. SBIG pauses guiding during image download with its internal/external guide chip (but not the new STX apparently), ive also used a QHY5 guiding whilst imaging with an SBIG, and guiding continuse during down load, they use seperate drivers.

[AlexN]

nah, it doesnt pause during downloads Robin.. It may be single thread, but it doesn't do that.. The USB bus can handle the information coming down from the imager and the guider at the same time, not to mention the guider is only downloading a tiny sub-frame, guide pulses sent to the mount via the camera are tiny little bits of information too.. It wouldnt require 2 threads to complete the tasks...

I had maxim guiding and downloading an image about 15 mins ago before this cloud rolled in :( good looking sub of NGC253 it was too.. :(

[Bassnut]

Geez Dave, load up the grief why dont you ;-), Ive got a long way to go (and I havent posted a pic in mths, not good).

Yes, and there are heaps of video how-tos on the web, although I havent seen one on guiding live with a graph in realtime. It depends a lot on the rig of course, every set up is different.

Its supprising what a graph can reveil, over/under agressiveness, backlash, polar alignment, balance, stiction, PE, mirror flop, loose fittings, seeing (related to guide exposure time, very important, to avoid chasing seeing or conversley, under correcting). The guide error graph is the realtime indicator of exactly how your mount is performing, in "graphic" detail ;-).

[dpastern]

:-) You guys are far better than I am, who better to ask? I haven't adjusted my mount for backlash, or done any PEC training yet. I don't have to really worry about mirror flop. Flexure, seeing and guide cam alignment are all really good suggestions of things to watch out for. See, this is why I ask!

Dave

[Tandum]

You don't understand. A program must have a thread running to monitor/complete each task. If it's single threaded and downloading an image from the imaging camera, it can't do anything else till it's done. You would send a yield command to the guider to get it to stop so you can get the light frame, then start the guider backup. Basically a signle threaded application is like me, can only do one thing at a time :)

[AlexN]

Oh i understand multi threading perfectly, The point is that for the program to analyse a guide error, and make the required adjustment takes 1/11000 of a second.. I don't know if it maybe pauses guiding to initiate the download command, then guides during download, pauses during displaying the image then continues to guide.

But I can tell you this... While its downloading the image from my camera, its still making guide corrections...

So either its multi threaded, or simply breaking the laws of the universe, or somehow finding another way around.. In any case, thats what it does. it does it, it does it well, I love it!

[Bassnut]

Alex is right there (not that im an expert BTW), SBIG just pauses guiding during image download (not with the AO8 tho, I think) cause thats the way they do it, for what ever reason, nothing to do with mutithreading.

Im sorry if ive caused angst here, I could be wrong.

[Tandum]

No problem Fred, I didn't write it so I don't know for sure but most of these vendors need to look at their code in this age of multi core processors. AFAIK DSS is the only one using all cores available in a cpu.

[marki]

Dave it does a whole lot more than that. Better get reading that manual of yours as it really is a very complete astro-imaging package from aquisition to processing. You pays your money but you get a great program. Love it.

Mark

[dpastern]

hehehe Mark, I've gathered that! I've slated the next week or so to try and sort out my guidescope mounting issues, and then I'm going to start reading the user guide. I'll probably use PHD for guiding on the laptop and keep maxm dl on the main machine for processing.

Dave

[AlexN]

what the hell you wanna go and do that for Dave?? Maxim belongs in the field... Using PHD is fine for starters, but once you get serious about imaging you really want more serious software running the show.. PHD does work, but if you really want to get your guiding spot on with the smallest possible corrections and the easiest troubleshooting, MaximDL should be doing your guiding... and if its doing your guiding, it may as well do your imaging..

[marki]

Do have a go at guiding with Maxim as the others have said the graphs and small window are great and it is easy to setup (much better than PHD IMO). When I set mine up I turn up the volume so I can leave the scope and have a beer under the patio. If the ding ding sound stops you will see me running for the scope coz it means the autoguider has stopped working :P. I also like the auto focus routines (works well with the moonlite, temp compensation, multi focuser control) and the fact that you can integrate so many other programs with it (CCD inspector, pempro, focus max etc). There is also a basic planetarium in there as well a dome control etc etc. You have full camera control including filter wheels, peltier settings etc and Starry night also links up well making life very easy. I think it is great value for money even without going into the stacking and processing ability of the program.

Mark

[Bassnut]

Ahmen, bruttal but true :thumbsup:

[Tandum]

Geees you guys are mean, it's far easier to start with easy software and work your way up, kicking out hardward issues on the way than jumping in at the deep end to learn how to swim.

[marki]

Thats the way my Dad taught me to swim :D

Mark

[AlexN]

As I said though, to start out, PHD is fine because it does work without any fiddling.. but if you want results. fiddling is what you need to do, and if you can't fiddle with settings, then you're not going to get real far are you?

Mark, I just got Maxim controlling my focuser tonight! Clouds ruined the fun before it even got started...

[marki]

The auto focus is a little tricky to get working properly, I could never get it going with the JMI smartfocus but it does work a treat with the moonlite on a night with steady seeing. Are you using temp compensation?

Mark

[AlexN]

Nope, no temperature compensation here.. Its just the JMI :D worked well... but by the time it was focused and I slewed to the target, the clouds rolled in...

[dpastern]

The reason why I say this is because I have one licence. So, it's either the laptop or the desktop PC. The desktop PC is far more powerful, and since MaximDL will be used for processing images, it makes sense to put MaximDL on that. I can't justify buying it twice so I can have it on both the laptop and desktop.

Dave

laptop: Intel dual core 2ghz and 2GB RAM, 32 bit o/s, 5200 rpm hdd, vs Intel quadcore 2.4ghz, 8GB ram, x64 bit o/s and SATA 300 hdd...you do the maths :P

[AlexN]

I have one licence.. Preeeetty sure its installed on both my computers... :) Seems to work fine..

[troypiggo]

Yeah, Dave. I've bought a few programs now like Nebulosity, K3CCDTools, Astroplanner. Even though you only have one licence, they all allow you to install it on several computers of your own. Think they realise the notebook you use in the field will be different to the one you use to do the heavy lifting and image processing. Contact the authors to find out. You don't want to spend all that money on a software package like that and miss out on all the tools it provides for "in the field".

[marki]

Me too :scared3::P:D

Mark

[dpastern]

Well, I might just contact them and see what they say. Thanks guys.

Dave

[dpastern]

Well, viewing the help online, it says:



So, I guess no is the answer...I'll EMail them anyways, but I think they'll tell me that I'll have to purchase another copy (which is really silly to be honest).

Dave

[dpastern]

In light of what I'm seeing, I contact Cyanogen and submitted a ticket. This is what I said (perhaps a bit blunt, but that's me lol):



Dave

[Geoff45]

When I bought Maxim a few weeks ago, I had some trouble with it on my desktop. I emailed the Maxim support and said something like
"I have Maxim on my laptop and desktop. It works fine on my laptop but on my desktop I have the following problem..." They emailed back with helpful suggestions and made no mention of the double installation, so maybe they are just being ultralegalistic in their licensing blurb.

It certainly works on both computers

BTW the problem was due to something stupid on my part.
Geoff.

[marki]

Dave, when I originally bought the program as version 4 I seem to remember the EULA stating the program could be installed on one laptop and one PC. I did notice the difference in the EULA when I upgraded to version 5 (in the free upgrade time allowed from initial purchase). But hey I am running an upgraded version 4 maxim DL not a brand spanking version 5 package even though it appears to be exactly the same :P:D.

Mark

[dpastern]

Well, that gives me some hope...*fingers crossed*

Dave

[Geoff45]

Here's the word from the man himself, Doug George (copied from the Maxim Yahoo! Group website)

"We don't mind you installing it on two computers -- one for field use and one
for processing -- as long as you are using it on a single computer at a time.

On the other hand, if you had two separate telescopes that you were using
simultaneously, then you would need two copies of the software to run them both.

Doug"

Here's the link for those who are members of the group
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MaxImDL/message/36083

Geoff

Note added. I did a quick search on the Yahoo! site. The question keeps coming up, so I don't know why they don't put it in the license agreement. The oft repeated answer from Doug George is that you can install on two computers, but only if you faithfully promise never to run it on more than one computer at a time.

[dpastern]

Cool, thanks. I'll see what they say and then respond with that link if they say I can't. I don't expect any problems. I have no interest in cheating them of a licence - if I was using it on both computers simultaneously, then I could understand, but I'd be only using it on one when out in the field, and the other when at home processing.

Dave

[marki]

I thought it was something like that Dave. I have had it on both for years. I am pretty sure it was in the Eula for version 4, not sure why they removed it for ver 5.


Mark

[dpastern]

Well, I'll wait and see what Cyanogen says! I'll let you guys know.

Dave

[dpastern]

Got my reply from Cyanogen this morning, and you guys were all on the money:



Out of respect for the person who sent me the EMail, I xxxxx'd out their name ;-)

Woohoo!

Dave

[AlexN]

Lucky for that.. I'd hate to think that I was a Pirate by having it on my desktop and notebook! :D Yarrrgh!!

[dpastern]

arrr m'laddy, tis a reason to drink!

Dave

[AlexN]

You need a reason to drink me'hearty? Yaarrrghh!

[dpastern]

hahaha!

Dave