CPU for image processing & gaming?

[DavidU]

I thought I would ask the experts.
I need to replace my aging computer and wanted to kill two birds with the one stone.
I want to do astro imaging & processing and the kids will play games etc.
i7 920? Quad core extreme etc? I would get a 512meg video card etc.
Is Vista 32 bit ok or go 64 bit?
4gig ram or more?
thanks for any input

[acropolite]

I use a reasonably ordinary quad core (2.4Ghz) with Vista ultimate 64bit and 8Gb Ram, fantastic for PS, IMO if you want the kids to play games either buy them a console (Wii) or a seperate PC.

[renormalised]

Your main thing with what you want is RAM.....the more the merrier. A good fast CPU wouldn't go astray either and a decent HD (get a couple of TB sized drives). Also, don't skimp on the video card...at least 512meg onboard. Maybe even two and link them SLi. Plus, like Phil said, a 64Bit OS.

Then throw all that away and get yourself a Mac loaded with PS....Mac's are far better at image processing.

Get the PC for games.

[DavidU]

Yes, if it was just me I would get a Mac.

[marki]

If you are going to run a 32bit windows system don't bother buying more then 3 GB of ram as it will not utilise it. At the same time the 64 bit OS may not get on with some astro software, do your homework. As for macs they are great if you have a million dollars and do not want to upgrade anything.

Mark

[renormalised]

That's the Mac Achilles' Heel....price. Mind you, you only have to pay once. Not every 6 months in tiresome and sometimes useless upgrades, every time something new for a PC comes out.

Although, I've seen top spec PC imaging hardware just as dear, if not dearer, than a Mac.

[Alchemy]

i use a quad core plus 4 gig ram plus a nvidia gtx260 vid card, plays games ok, plus whizzes through stacking compared to the last computer, cant say ive found many games i really like.... crysis plus the crysis warhead had nice graphics and plenty things to shoot up

[koputai]

It really depends on how much you want to spend.
The new i7 is nice, and if you can afford a quad core, go for it, it's the best you can get in the consumer market.
If you're into workstation territory, we use HP xw8600's (octo-core Xeon) at work and they beat any Mac you can shake a cheque at (we also have the latest octo-core Mac Pro's, which only the guys who think they're fashionable use). The new HP Z800 we just received is 25% faster than the 8600. Smokin!! Oh, and Intel over AMD too. We have 16 core AMD machines, and they are only 5% faster than the 8600 and 3x the price.
Vista, all versions, is carp. Run with XP 32 or 64 as a hold-over until Windows 7 is released, it's looking worthy.
Personally, if I was building a new machine for home, it'd be an i7 quad core, with 8GB of DDR3 RAM, an Nvidia 512MB graphics card, running XP64. Oh, and I'd buy the kids a PS3 or XBox and not let them touch the PC!

Cheers,
Jason.

[dpastern]

I'll second this. It comes with bootcamp too, so you can use a legit copy of Windows and boot that if you want to (instead of OS X). I'd also recommend getting a copy of Parallels for virtualising Windows, so you can play with both Windows and OS X at the same time. For gaming, you'd probably be better off going with bootcamp, as virtualising isn't always the best.

Dave

[dpastern]

Why XP 64 bit? It has worse driver support than Vista x64 for starters, is near end of life too.

Dave

[renormalised]

You know what, I was thinking about what sort of desktops we'll likely have in 50-100 years time. They probably won't have OSes....because they'll just create the code to run themselves on the fly!!!!. And, all you'd have to do to run one is just tell it what to do and it will go ahead and do it!!!. Diagnose possible and probable problems before they occur, suggest better ways of doing things more efficiently and quickly and who knows what else!!!

[koputai]

You're right. Most things I run have 64 drivers, but yes, XP32 would be a more reliable bet.

Cheers,
Jason.

[DavidU]

Thanks Jase, a used 8600 is going to be $5-$6K. The war department(wife) will have a Splinduric Mandragua (not a good thing:lol:

[koputai]

Yep, for home use, a quad core i7 is definitely the go.

Cheers,
Jason.

[acropolite]

I have had no problems with Vista 64 Bit with drivers and it's more solid than my old XP machine, maybe older devices will have driver problems but we're talking a new system here.

Why use it... simple, to take advantage of the extended RAM capabilities and allow 64bit Photoshop, believe me it flies, particularly with the large 5DII raw files.

FWIW you can download windows7 Pre release and use it for 12 months for free, by all accounts W7 is the uprgrade that vista should have been. It is said that Microsoft will offer trial users a cheap upgrade path when the trial licence expires.

I haven't tried much Astro software but SNP version 5 at least runs fine on 64 bit ultimate.

[renormalised]

Define "cheap", when MS are concerned. I've never known them to be generous to the public in so far as software purchases are concerned.

[g__day]

I hear from developers that XP's 64 bit video drivers are no where near as polished as Vista's 64 bit drivers.

Personally I'd go for a quad core - cheap I7 might be very nice. Load up anywhere from 4 - 12GB RAM - depending on whether you want to do graphics heavy processing (you don't have to get all your RAM in one acquisition). Personally I'd go for more that 512MB on a video card. If you're going real high end $$$ - go NVidia, if your going mid range ATI.

Last advice - plan your purchase and visit fluidtek for the lowest prices if you're building yourself. Latest edition of AtomicMPC has a good review of motherboards, video cards and CPUs.

http://www.fluidtek.com.au/

[deadsimple]

After heaps of research I'm getting an i7 920 in a few days for electromagnetic simulations, image processing and gaming.

Other people might say wait for the release of the i7 860 or whatever as they can clock faster, but it'll be months till there are stable enough motherboards and BIOS revisions to have a good experience.



At least 4GB. More if you're pushing around really large images or doing plenty of multi-tasking. But as mentioned Vista x64 would be a good option, as it's the primary target of driver developers these days.



RAM is dirt cheap these days, so it's easy just to get heaps and not concern yourself with it at all. Instead the focus should be on the CPU as you can judge the potential performance improvement easier. I'd definitely go quad-core as more programs are becoming multi-core aware these days.

[DavidU]

I had a look around today, the i7 920 is a quad and with the new ddr3 ram with the new socket m/b it appears as 8 core. I want 8gb ddr3, 1tb NVidia 1gb and run vista 64 bit. The last new computer I got was about 7 years ago. How things change.
The kids have a PS3 Wii and Xbox360 Ps2's iPods ( basically spoiled) so dad has no Takahashi LOL

[g__day]

A suggestion - get a really good power supply (Brand and peak power on the 12V rails - e.g Antec, Topower) 600 Watts or more minimum and a top end motherboard (better quality capacitors). They're the core of your hardware platform - skimp there and you'll wish you didn't.

3D accelerators are so fast these days - ever since NVidia launched the 8800 GT they've got so powewrful its generally CPUs holding them back. $260 - $490 buys a hell of alot of bang for buck today. Sure you can go > $700 and or get two in SLI or Crossfire - but what resolution monitor are you driving that needs that? The technology of the mid range < $500 is still lead by ATI I believe (performance per $) but at the uber high end (too $$$) its NVidia.

You combination sounds reasonable indeed.

[renormalised]

"The kids", if it were me, would've got either a PS3 or an Xbox, that's all. There's no way I'd miss getting a Tak just for the sake of a couple of games consoles for the kids. They'd be better off out with dad using the Tak than rotting their minds in front of a games machine and TV.

[DavidU]

Agreed !

[renormalised]

They might learn something helping dad with the observations, and actually come to appreciate that learning is something worthwhile pursuing.

[DavidU]

The 2 younger ones have a look through the scope and the son is showing interest in CS2 processing.

[g__day]

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/16681

NVidia vs ATI and the upper mid range level - and Tech Report are one of the better technical review sites:

Conclusions

Jeez. We plow through all of those numbers, and I still can't declare any clear winner. What we do know is that, with the Radeon HD 4890 and its OC variant, AMD has succeeded in establishing a new standard for performance at the $249 price point. This is a most excellent development, and it has forced Nvidia's hand. Fortunately, Nvidia's response is quite respectable, as well. The GeForce GTX 275 is a worthy competitor to the 4890, and which card is a better value may depend on how prices shake out once both options are out in the wild. Remember, the 4890 OC card we tested costs $265, and if anything, it was an almost exact match for our stock-clocked GeForce GTX. Then again, the first GTX 275 has apparently popped up at Newegg as I write, and it's priced at $259.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130475&nm_mc=AFC-Techreport&cm_mmc=AFC-Techreport-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA). So perhaps the 4890 OC is the most apt comparison—and the parity remains intact.

[dpastern]

Phil, the person I quoted stated to use XP 64 bit. Vista x64 rocks, and I was actually recommending it, over XP 64 bit ;-)

Dave

[dpastern]

Agreed, especially on the PSU. I personally wouldn't recommend Antec, they're living on their name and reputation imho, their current stuff is not good quality. Better exists elsewhere. But definitely get a high quality PSU and definitely get a top quality motherboard.

My advice is (take it for what it's worth) - a smallish fast boot drive (WD raptor) for your operating system. A 2nd drive (500gb or larger) for your general data. Another 2 drives in Raid 1 for your images and essential data. Go hardware raid if possible - it's more expensive but a LOT better.

Don't worry too much about graphics - most modern cards excel at 3D but you don't that for image processing. As to RAM, get as much as possible, 8GB is fine and go for a quadcore - it does come in handy. It's not as fast (outright) as similar priced dual cores, but having 4 cores to load balance the work is better than 2 imho.

Final thing - get a good case, I'd recommend Lian Li. Expensive, but really nice cases, awesome finish, easy to work with, keep your PC cool, and they're beautiful to look at. I use a PC-V1010.

Dave

edit: if you're working on images - make sure to get a good monitor, m-pva or s-ips, rather than the cheaper tn stuff. Better colour consistency and accuracy. You pays for what you get. Oh, and get a calibration tool, at the least, a Huey Pro or similar, better still an Eye one. Shoot in RAW, Adobe RGB and make sure to always embed the ICC profiles.

[DavidU]

Thanks fellas ! A lot of reading to do. I will see what I can get together for my budget.
The processing speed tests on the i7 920 seem awesome for the $

[dpastern]

Yes, read up on everything. It's always good to know what you're buying, and why. An informed consumer is a smart one.

tom's hardware and anandtech are 2 well respected hardware sites. Lots of good info over at the atomicmpc forums as well (www.atomicmpc.com.au (http://www.atomicmpc.com.au)).

Dave

edit: I forgot to mention go a 64 bit operating system. Windows 7 is shaping up to be very nice by all accounts, although there's nothing wrong with Vista imho. If you lived in Brissie I'd have happily helped you put a PC together.

[g__day]

AtomicMPC and PCPowerPlay are published each month - and generally have a two page section where they recommend the best gear at around four different price points from cheap, budget, mid range - unlimited cash. A key observation is they recommend well matched gear. Its crazy to build an unbalanced system - so read a review and see if their suggestions align with your thoughts.

Matt

[DavidU]

Thanks Matt, I have not purchaced a PC mag for 10 years.
It's all so different now.

[DavidU]

More investigating !
How about 24 256GB solidstate HDD's RAID 2 x i7 920 4GB DDR3 per core
look (lol) Rip a 700MB DVD in .8 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96dWOEa4Djs

[dpastern]

crikey!

Dave

[MrB]

~13 seconds to open every program in the start menu..... ahhhh:eyepop::eyepop:

[renormalised]

And now for the clanger.....how much is all this going to cost??!!!:eyepop::eyepop:

[Glenhuon]

If funds are limited you could always go the way I did. Bought an upgrade kit on Ebay. MSI Mboard, 2.5 gig dual core Intel processor and 2gig DDR2 for $220. Used the existing drives. Runs great, cut my stacking times in DSS by 60% (latest version uses both cores) and can add a bit more RAM later when I get Win 7 on here (gave Vista a miss, tried it for a week and hated it, a wasted $175. W7 is the way Vista should have been)
Didn't have to re-install XP as all I had to do was reactivate it over the net with MS. I have seen cheaper upgrades, but they use AMD processors.

Bill