What is your thought?

[Ralbert Jastein]

Hi all!
Considering the theories of the formation of the universe, is it not more logical to think that anything is possible?
Can anyone somehow prove that absolutely anything is not impossible regarding the formation of the universe?
How do you think the universe was formed?
Is it as likely to have been formed from a giant vegetable as the 'Big Bang'?
Yes, why not?:)

[Jen]

Ouch :doh: my head hurts :screwy::screwy:
:)
Hi Ralbert and welcome to IIS :hi::hi::hi:

[xelasnave]

Greetings and welcome.

I think the only reasonable view is that the Universe is infinite...no top, bottom or sides but more importantly ...no start no end...

If we are to accept the b ig bang idea that the Universe is finite I ask ...what is on the outside???? or put it another way into what medium does our Universe expand... nothing???

Are there any reasons why the big bang idea is the only reasonable idea as to how the Universe came into being?

How can we exclude any and every alternate view that may arise on the creation of the Universe.


alex

[Enchilada]

"I don't think about things that I don't think about..." :help:

[xelasnave]

That is indeed profound:thumbsup: but it must be an exclusive process:shrug: as if you think about something that you dont think about then you are nevertheless thinking about it..even if only for a moment:)... so I wonder how one deals with such:shrug:...

And as to the specifics of the thread I ask..

"do you think about the creation of the Universe and then qualify it as a matter you do not think about and move on to other matters content to accept it is indeed a matter that you do not think about"....

The proposition you raise has indeed got me thinking I think:D.

alex:):):)

[mick pinner]

if you accept that the universe is infinite and has no boundaries then this is outside our understanding of nature as we as humans understand it.
as l look at it, should this be true then all the discussion and thought will prove only one thing, that we have no idea what we are talking about.

[troypiggo]

As long as the vegetable wasn't a choko. I hate chokoes.

[Baddad]

Hey Alex and Ralbert, :)

Good debatable material there. Obviously thrashed out by experts without reaching a solid conclusion.:thumbsup:

My own thoughts and facts I've heard:

The human brain is finite in size and capacity. it cannot fathom the concept of infinity effectively. It qualifies such concepts to satisfy itself when the thought emerges.

Going with Jen's comment,"Ouch :doh: my head hurts :screwy::screwy:".
Is one way of dealing with the thought and its almost true.

Having said that, I find it difficult to grasp a number of ideas, concepts in the Universe. those ideas produced by scientists at times.

The Universe is finite? I agree with you Alex. What's beyond it? Hey! Someone else says there are other universes' out there. :screwy::screwy:

This is the big one: Matter cannot be destroyed or created. Energy, the same. Interchangeable yes. Matter to energy and vice versa.

Gravity is a force which shifts apples and galaxies. Bends light. Where does the energy for such a powerful force come from? The mass of the body producing it does not change, temperature does not affect it, is it related to other energy or forces?

Energy and force are related. When a force acts on a body energy is produced. With gravity its kinetic and /or compression and then spectacular things happen. What is this gravity? Is it creating energy? Am I missing something here?

If there was an opposite gravity force from a body it would not exist in this universe. The bodies would repel each other to achieve an equilibrium.

I know the effects of gravity but where's it come from?

My brain hurts
Cheers Marty

[BerrieK]

Aah Marty, ask Alex about push gravity.

Perhaps the definitive discovery and identification of dark matter (perhaps using the LHC) will answer the question of 'where does gravity come from?'.

[Baddad]

Hey BerrieK,:)

Too old for debates, pretending to know more than ya' really do.:lol::lol:.

Please enlighten me on what LHC is. :newbie: Something to do with the IIS Community's information system I imagine?
Have to leave for work, customers expect me soon.
Cheers Marty

[BerrieK]

LHC = Large Hadron Collider (its a really big particle accelerator)

Check out the threads in the Science forums.

[Baddad]

Hey Kerrie, :)

Will do that. Thanks.

(Thinking). Large Hal'' Coll'''. Sounds interesting.

Cheers Marty

[avandonk]

This conjecture is crap. We may as well say the universe was created by a pink bunny rabbit. Is that valid? NO!

Unless your wild imaginings can be tested by experiment your imaginings are just that mild crap!

Sorry but go and learn some basic science. If that is too difficult stop posting drivel.


I make no apologies for this position as too many uninformed religious/deluded twits try to pervert real science with their drivel to lead the uninformed to an even worse position to the true believers of dross.

I just cannot help myself! Like shooting fish in a barrel!

Bert

[troypiggo]

So just to clarify - there's absolutely no chance it all began from the Big Choko Bang? Phew.... I hate chokoes...

[TJD]

look you give me solid evidence about how it happend


thers has to be a guess some where in there.

what created the big bang guessing so if where guessing something that created the bigg bang arnt we geussing that the big bang was there


i mean stars and galexys fly away from a spot couldnt that mean that if there was an end to galexy theres gravity that is pulling not pushing like the big bang

i guees my point is anybody can be correct it could be a choko
it could be a god\
it could be anything

give me silid evidence and i will say theres a guess there there could be a alien that made the univers

think before you right:mad2: sorry about the spelling

[ngcles]

Hi Ralbert & All,

Big-Bang gets relatively wide acceptance in the physics/astronomy community over any vegetable-based theory (and others at the moment) basically because of Ockham's razor -- it's simply the best theory we've got.

Currently it is the best supported (by verifiable facts and evidence), simplest explaination of the formation, evolution and fate of the Universe as a whole that, at the same time, makes the least number of apparently unsupported assumptions.

Is that to say its perfect? Infallible? No, but it's the best we've got -- and by some distance. Will it stand the test of time? Well no one knows for certain but in the apparent absence of evidence supporting a vegetable-based Genesis, it looks much better than a fair bet.

But then again, there's always the Great Green Arkelseizure Theory. ;)

Just as importantly ... Alex!! -- long time no hear. Good to see you contributing again :thumbsup:. Hope things are well with you.


Best,

Les D

P.S I hate chokos too ...

[marki]

Bert, the big bang theory is just that, a theory and in the true sense of scientific method open to debate and could be changed at any moment if it is found to be flawed (which it is in my opinion). If dark matter/energy cannot be proven then its on very thin ground indeed and at the moment the physicists seem to be running around plugging holes in a sinking ship. There are a number of viable alternate scientific theories out there that could with much work end up giving us a clearer picture. But on the whole who really cares? If the universe was started by a carrot or bananah so what? Not all of these debates need to dive into the us vs them (science vs religion) type arguments. I think people were just having a little fun. So I propose the the universe is actually a complete illusion and we are all victims of an evil plot by some non existent hypothetical tyrant. Oh yes I do have a little formal science education.

Mark

[marki]

Absolutely Les :D. This is the general chat forum after all.

Mark

[stephenb]

Les, I have always leaned towards this theory, but unfortunately it is not widely known outside Viltvodle Six, as you know.

While I respect everyone's opinion (an you are entitled to have an opinion whether you posses any scientific qualifications/religious beliefs or not), I simply do not spend time worrying about it.

You non-believers just wait to see what becomes of you with the 'Coming of the Great White Handkerchief'. Then we'll see who has the last laugh!

[ngcles]

Hi Redesford & All,



Last laugh ? .. the last sniff or sneeze I think :D


Best,

Les D

[Robh]

Just imagining ...
I've just returned on the Starship Explorer to find the far reaches of space. Unfortunately, the further we went the more there was to go. It all looked different but the same. We found no other life. We seem to be the only place with life in this whole darn universe. What a fluke!

Now, my thoughts ...
We were born billions of years too late. Most of the objects in our observable universe have moved beyond the cosmic event horizon and are traveling away from us at the speed of light. Too fast to chase.
They've disappeared without even a puff of smoke. What we see is a miniscule portion of the whole universe of matter and energy.
We can hypothesize from our little sample but we can never know with certainty whether our little universe is representative of the whole or not.

Having said this, it's still a whole lot of fun postulating.
I'm going for the Big Carrot origins. Maybe that's why we can see the stars at night!

Ralbert, welcome to IIS.

[xelasnave]

Now seems like a good time to raise the galaxy line up observations:)...

It seems the spiral galaxies line up like buttons on a string ..they all seem linked ... now take a look at one of those wide galaxy shots:D and it looks like the layout of a blood circulating system..not saying it is but what it resembles:)...now add to that the observations of the passing of materials between galaxies... I have read stuff in NED there is plenty of evidence accumulating H does ...anyways is that not strange:shrug: it seems as if there is a link, a meaning... has anyone noticed similar or is it simply something one would expect to find as a structure resulting from a big bang:shrug:... is there a truth here that may hint that we may not be a vegetable but part of a much larger ...er thing :D but a unit not as we assume everything a mere randon placement... as a big bang would suggest...


Bert I gather you are saying the big bang is science and sacred but I was not sure...:D You gotta go for it and speak out ... and be direct :thumbsup:

SO......Has anyone picked up on the line up thing?


As to Dark Matter and Gravity it is going my way and that is a fact :P:whistle:...in my view... gravity pushes:thumbsup:, the eather is being readmitted thru a crack in the door (see Gravity B probe a revamp of the MM experiment...you see it or you dont).... Dark Energy is suspected and it is suspected to be a push force able to move the Universe so why would it be so hard to accept a push gravity that does away with Dark MAtter:shrug:.... I mean a reason besides the current accumulated knowledge..:lol::lol::lol:...I know my ides are not science but to me it makes sence :D:P... the emphasis on GR takes the focus of what is really going on at a particle level... maybe... but as someone observed earlier..who knows:shrug: and who would know if they really knew:shrug:...besides me...:P:lol::lol::lol: and for those who would laugh at such a view I ask...is that what most folk really say to themselves... they alone know they are right...maybe it is just me:lol::lol::lol:

I have been well having a great time small parties music rain fighting extreme cabin crazies:screwy::whistle:... more tales than I could tell:D... the lady neighbour visited first time today,two cuppas and likes astronomy..the other one came back Friday and fed me ..and came again tonight with my neighbour ..the other side of the triangle... believe me be careful what you imagine it does become real:eyepop:

Got an invite to "share" a house in Drake with a lady I have known for a while to get away from all this over here:D and the X has extended an invite :scared:... but I have lost the phone number of the nice lady I met at Phil Emmanuels show at the pub:mad2:... thats it the Universe is expanding ..at least mine is:lol::lol::lol:



alex:):):)

[GTB_an_Owl]

good to see you haven't "lost it" locked up with all the rain and them woman folk Alex

welcome back

how is that brother of mine ?
have you run into him lately ?

geoff

[xelasnave]

Hi Geoff I see him once a month these days ..we have a chat and he is fine..fit and happy and a very interesting man to have a chat with.

Those ladies..they dont like to see a man running wild and they will hunt you down and trap you ..I cant use the hernia as an excuse anymore (I have been 12 months recovering from the opperation;)...but honestly it raining dames just when I had given them away:D ...

So what do you think about this galaxy line up start and all that.. you dont secretly suport the vegetable thing... or do you:shrug:

alex:):):)

[GTB_an_Owl]

i think there is a little girl blowing bubbles somewhere - and our universe is in one of them

what do you reckon ? :whistle:

i mean, there has to be a female connected to it all somewhere, doesn't there ? :D

(now don't flame me too severely girls) :)

geoff

[xelasnave]

You just make sure you let me know if you are up this way I would like you to meet some folk.....you know what they are like and why they are like it but these are wilder than average.
I like the bubble idea ..I think there is a book called similar.

alex

[MrB]

Nah, you've all got it wrong.
I once subscribed to the great green arkelseizure theory, but have since come up with my own.
Our universe is just an atom in some other beings body(approx location: left knee cap)... and their universe is just an atom in.....
And so on and so forth...

[GTB_an_Owl]

who was it that discovered the structure of DNA ?

geoff

[joe_smith]

Funny thing after all that you said science still cant answer it, can it? or a lot of other questions about life and the universe. They make out they know all answers but when a subject comes up that science cant explain and they know full well they cant most just quote a Richard Dawkins type answer. If they knew the answers and had 100% proof people wouldn't be asking questions like these in the first place :screwy:

[bloodhound31]

Just take a look at the marvel and miracle of your computer in front of you, the plastics and metals shaped and running on the electrons of electricity> Look at all the chemicals involved in the ink in the pen on your desk, the glues holding the laminates of your desk, the paint on the wall. Look and ponder at the miracle of the hands in front of you, typing and rolling a mouse around at the impulse of your brain, filled with memories, dreams, imagination, creativity, love, hate, sense of humor.

Look at the skin protecting you from other tiny lifeforms and harmful chemicals. Look at the other things like water, animal and vegetable sustinance you need to operate. The way hydrogen converts down the periodic table to supply you with everything you need.

Look at the ozone layer protecting you from the sun's UV. Look at the magnetic field protecting you from solar wind. Look at the proximity of the moon, providing a cycle of weather to keep the air and water moving. look at the tilt of the earth, providing seasons and temperature regulation. Look at the distance of the earth from the sun, it's near-perfection in the safe zone from our star. Look at the stable nature of our star and the timing of our lifeforms to its lifetime. Look at where this solar system is placed between spiral arms, away from many other dangerous collections of volotile stars. Look at the solar winds, providing a shield around our palnetary neighborhood. Look at the placement of the gas giants, pulling in or diverting many comets from collision course to us.

Look at yourself. You are amazing. We know what we are made of down to the last DNA strand, chromosome, atom, neutron, quark or whatever. We even know how we work to some extent. But no-one knows what makes you alive.

Even the way we are communicating using all these elements provided is miraculous when you really think about it. Two or more piles of elements and atoms with electrical currents and impulses pulling the strings, exchanging information over vast distances on our whim.

I find it hard to believe such beauty, design, order, complexity -all in such a concentrated but massive quantity, is anything less than purposeful and created.

I love life. I love the universe, I love everyone and everything in it, including every one of you. Amazing..just amazing.

Baz.

[MrB]

Who created the creator?

[bloodhound31]

No one. The creator is, was and always will be eternal, outside of time. A being such as this would not be bound by our humanising terms and concepts of time, beginnings and ends. Time would not have existed until it was created. (or did we invent time?) HAHA! ay? ay? Huh? Huh?:screwy::whistle::stupid:

[marki]

I agree Joe that Dawkins is well a complete dork but to say something we have not worked out yet is due to some great mystery or beyond our capacity to understand is a little nieve. It will take time and a great deal of effort but in the end it must be solved like a great deal of other mysteries have been solved. Please use this thread to have a bit of fun and not turn it into a religion vs science debate. It is a fruitless argument and and always ends up in the thread being locked much to the detriment of others who are just having a bit of a laugh.

Mark

[marki]

Time is simply a series of events. When the last energy transfer occurs and the universe is at equalibrium time will cease to exist.

Mark

[theodog]

OK, I think I get it.
Supreme Being=Time.
Time began at the beginning and will end at the end.
Time can create, and destroy, everything -it can even heal all things.
Both are old men.
Have I unified two great theories:shrug:
:)

PS My partner loves Chokos, I hate them -do we live in different Universes?

[troypiggo]

Yes. You live in the right one. :)

[bloodhound31]

Finally! Men and women are not from Venus and Mars, they simply like Chokos or not!!!!:lol::lol::lol:Revelation!!! :rofl::rofl:

Maybe chokos are made by Satan to throw us off the scent!!!:lol::lol::lol:

Baz.

[Baddad]

Hey Astro Geeks, :)
Within our part of the universe, speculation exists and or proof, as to the existence of gravity, dark matter, white holes, black holes, etc.

Light has a finite velocity. What about gravity? Can it be somehow illustrated whether gravity has a velocity component or not.

Matter would need to be created and then the gravity detected I would assume?
If it can somehow be 'blocked' would be interesting.

I throw this to you "wolves" out there. What do you guys think?

Cheers Marty

[lacad01]

To quote an erstwhile statesman who seems to have encapsulated this conundrum:
"There are known knowns.
There are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns.
That is to say, there are things that we now know we don’t know.
But there are also unknown unknowns.
There are things we do not know we don’t know."
D. Rumsfeld :lol:

Peace people :love:
PS
Death to chokoes ;)

[xelasnave]

Hi Baz:hi: always great to see you speaking (typing) your truth:thumbsup::) and how your belief works for you and I reckon if there is a creator I think that creator would be very happy with all there is:) … although we of course could not concieve the entire purpose:shrug:... everything is indeed most wonderful such that it is easy to think we are indeed blessed:)..as I feel we are:):)... irrespective of anyones beliefs there are (is;)) certain truths we can not easily overlook.

AND the fact is we live at a most interesting point in time...now..and you cant get more happning than that...:thumbsup:

and if we still exist in a million years time then our children of the future will look back to our time as such a significant marker in their past.. their history:eyepop:..our future:eyepop:..as the time they started the first moves to leave the planet and extend our opportunities of survival:D.

I feel that I personaly:D will be remembered:D as the human that turned around thinking :Dand established the relationship of all energy ;);)and the first to demand that our Solar system be protected by a fleet of battle stars:scared:... yet still remain humble knowing such will come to pass:rolleyes:.

You gotta believe in something that is the key and unfortunately I am all that I have left:):):):thumbsup:...if you see what I mean:sadeyes:...

We have to have a get together with Ron somehow:).

alex:):):)

[xelasnave]

Are you talking to me:shrug::D
or are you unaware that some folk have very define views on gravity:whistle:

Maybe the Universe started like a cucumber..they swell up and explode to scatter its seeds all over...mmm now that one has to go near the top surely

alex:):):)

[Baddad]

Hey xelasnave (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/member.php?u=177) ,
Gravity does not Suck :):thumbsup:

I like that, Gravity does,,,,.:thumbsup:

By inserting a beginning to the Universe Begins a tirade of repeated questions. What was before the cucumber? A seed?

What was before the seed? A "Green Thing"?

What was before the Green Thing?
Nothing! :doh:

Do I dare ask?;)

Personally I can not see a religious answer here and that subject is taboo anyway.

Infinity is beyond human comprehension. But we still put in some kind of alternative to satisfy the question and maintain peace of mind.:)

I wasn't talking to just you Alex. :) I'm asking questions on what others opinions are about gravity. It seems to me to be a key to both the quiesant and volatile states in the universe. There are other unknown factors but I'm not going in to that just yet.

Cheers Marty

[Ralbert Jastein]

I apologize for any misunderstandings, this was merely posted to prove the point that it is important to keep an open mind when it comes to the formation of the universe and to find out about other peoples thoughts as i find it quite interesting.
Raju

[Robh]

Raju,
It worked for me. There was a bit of humour and some serious speculation.
I enjoyed reading most of the posts.
Can't wait for your next one.
Regards, Rob.

[ZL4PLM]

I think the little green men did it ..........

[Baddad]

Hey Raju and People of Astro Geek interests, :)




Keep it going, Rob has been reading my mind. I was about to say the same thing.

Has Rob been hangin' with that Green Lady? Developing telepathic powers?

Cheers Marty

[MrB]

Raju, I'm gonna agree with the others, this thread is a success!
3 pages and only one negative comment, I think it's a record!

[joe_smith]

I did not mention anything about the R word in my point and in no way was I referring to it.. The point was the way some people from the science community state things as being a proven fact, when in fact its not. I agree it will take a great deal of time looking for the answers, and to get them science might have to open some old doors they might not like, yes the R word. :whistle: I believe that somethings in the universe and life are beyond our capacity to understand given any amount of time. Sure we will find the when and how of a lot of answers but we will never know the why.

I'm into a bit of a laugh as well. threads get closed because people (not referring to anyone) are so passionate with their views they close their minds to others. We are all different, I like this from a book I read "A man is literally what he thinks, his character being the complete sum of all his thoughts".

[marki]

Hi Joe

I think you would be hard pressed to find any real scientist willing to state that "this is a proven scientific fact" certainly in my experience anyway. I think much of this sort of thing comes from media hype where journo's are trying to stir emotions in their readers. All that can ever be said is that from the large body of evidence gathered we believe that this may be the case. Quite frankly any other view is usually uninformed or just plain foolish. You only need to look at the history of science and the constantly evolving theories to see this is the case. I however do not believe that anything is beyond our understanding. Right now it may be a little cloudy but in the end we will be able to offer a plausable explaination or at least come up with a method of prediction that works.

Mark

[joe_smith]

Thanks for the reply mark

for a bit more food for thought This is out of a book and to me it sums up the view I am trying to get across, about how I think mainstream science and other types of view's work. to be taken with bit of humor ;)

The Blind Man and the Elephant

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant~(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation~Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side, ~ At once began to bawl:
ʺGod bless me! but the Elephant ~ Is very like a wall!ʺ

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, ʺHo! what have we here?
So very round and smooth and sharp? ~ To me ’tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant ~ Is very like a spear!ʺ

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands, ~ Thus boldly up and spake:
ʺI see,ʺ quoth he, ʺthe Elephant ~ Is very like a snake!ʺ

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
ʺWhat most this wondrous beast is like ~ Is mighty plain,ʺ quoth her;
ʺ’Tis clear enough the Elephant ~ Is very like a tree!ʺ

The Fifth who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: ʺE’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most; ~ Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant ~ Is very like a fan!ʺ

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail ~ That fell within his scope,
ʺI see,ʺ quoth he, ʺthe Elephant ~ Is very like a rope!

3

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion ~ Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right ~ And all were in the wrong!

Moral

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

‐John Godfrey Saxe

The book is called "The Hologram by Jeff Behnke and released under the Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike 3.0

[Baddad]

Hey Joe, :)

The Blind Man and the Elephant

I like it. Difficult to live up to as we are all human. ( I hope).:thumbsup:

Cheers Marty

[xelasnave]

Hi Marty just joking:P ..I have been known to express certain views and they tend to mention gravity:whistle:.. well in truth I am obsessed with gravity and sometimes think that folk who know me drop the word just to see me go into a rave...

anyways it is my belief that your questions recognise the paramount importance of gravity and that with out a valid understanding of how it works then no other questions in the Universe can be correctly considered.

Gravity is a pressure system created from the infinite flow of particles throughout our Universe and such flow manifests as all energy ..electricity is the flow, magnetism is the flow, gravity is the flow.... however why these particles rush from one end of the Universe to the other is beyond my understanding..I have no idea why they should do this:shrug:...but I feel if we could understand their lifes journey we may glimpse perhaps the reason and purpose of everything..which is of course a loose term to describe the Universe itself.

Great thread Ralbert I support your motives to stimulate thinking and discussion and say that your have enjoyed great sucess in manifesting your intention:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumb sup:.

It is great to see the wonderful inputs..so humerous, so well considered and even some very profound thinking.

alex:):):)

[yinyang23]

Hi Marty,
Having only joined a few weeks ago, I am unsure of whether I should engage in such a discussion.:shrug:
I am, however, prone to throwing caution to the wind so...

I had this idea a few years ago - does gravity act instantaneously or is there a lag effect? - as you stated, matter would need to be created to test this however.

What if we start with a large body, say a planet (to please the ethically minded the planet would be devoid of life) and proceed to transform the matter of the planet energy (in the form of, say, EM radiation).

Another body, a satellite of the first planet, would thus lose the gravitational force acting upon it and shoot off at a tangent.

We could measure the time difference between the matter-energy transfer and the shooting off at a tangent to determine if gravity does have a velocity component.

Am I in way over my head? Am I considering things I can not even begin to comprehend? YES. But I would like to know if my experiment is plausible or not.

[Baddad]

Hey Geoffrey, :)
I like your style.:thumbsup: I am just a newbie here too. I kind of make myself known to people and enter into anything that interests me.

Having read your idea I can't see it not working. Is good (Is Hans)...

Ofcourse there are people out there that are more knowledgeable than us and must have thought of such experiments in the past. Why we haven't heard any results? Who knows.

Also don't be timid in entering discussions. The established members always encourage you to have a go.

Cheers Marty

[Robh]

Hi Geoffrey from Post 53,
Just read your experiment and had to come back in on this one.
Great idea! I think it could work if the speed of gravity is less than or equal to the speed of light. You have to time the start of the experiment i.e. the beginning of the mass conversion to energy. If you're relying on light to see this, the light has to get to the observer before or at the same time as the satellite shoots off. If gravity acts faster than the speed of light, the satellite would shoot off before the light signal got to the observer. Seemingly, before the timer started. Hey, wait a minute, it would still work but it would be negative time!
Regards, Rob

[marki]

Haha, That about sums it up;). I remember many eons ago when I was doing a phys chem degree, my analytical chem proffessor recounting a recent spat he had with the biology crew. The biologists wanted to use one of the chemistry departments instruments to collect data for an experiment they were doing but had been told by the chemists that the instrument was not sensitive enough for their needs. They ignored all advice and went ahead anyway:). What is worse is that they got their results published in a scientific journal. I still have visions of student biologists quoting this paper as valid evidence (read quoting random noise of an under whelmed sensor). Frisbee (the proffessors nick name due to the way he threw slides across the over head projector) finished his sermon with some very wise words. Don't believe anything you read and only half of what you see :D. This is the view I firmly suscribe to.

Mark