Planet x / Nibiru

[geoffrey]

it would be very much appreciated if anyone could foward any information about planet X / Nibiru's current postion and any relavent information relating to the affects that it is or may possibly have, if or when it passes through our solar system please only genuine scientific pespectives and please no skeptical,sarcastic or religiously inclined opinions
Thankyou Geoff from the entrance, central coast nsw.:thumbsup:

[Terry B]

Sorry, I have to be at least skeptical as I am yet to see any evidence that "planet X" actually exists.

[Ian Robinson]

Sorry, but Niburu is a ficticious object , a hoax.

http://www.bautforum.com/conspiracy-theories/70163-niburu-brown-dwarf-destroyer.html#post1170477 says all that needs to be said about it and I refuse to waste my time trying to find any actual evidence it exists or is due to bump into Earth in 2012/13 ....

[AstralTraveller]

If you look in the archives you should find the previous thread on this subject.

[Astro78]

Hi Geoffrey,

It is possible that we are part of a binary star system with a brown dwarf. In 1995 we had not confirmed a single example. Today we have only around 600 known. They are very difficult to detect, especially below 750K. Brown dwarfs are constantly cooling - I wonder how many dip below detectable temperatures every year (and that don't omit other markers such as X-rays). They are known to contain water and are capable of producing planets - as a point of interest.

While i can't say where it is (the CIA keep deleting this :rofl:), or even if it exists - i don't believe science can rule it out just yet.

[gmbfilter]

Hi Geoffrey,
from one Geoff to another. Welcome to IIS:welcome:

No one seems to actually see Nibiru

Lots of web sites post coordinates but there is never anything there, or coordinates are not real, the whole thing does not make sense, I believe that its a hoax.

That said there is heaps of stuff you can see have a look at this http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=37171&page=2

Some locals go observing at Mangrove Mountain Pony Club check it out under "Star Parties Clubs and Observing Sessions",there is at least 2 other Geof'fs there http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=16
(http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

[ngcles]

Hi Geoffrey,

I wasn't going to reply because this topic has been done to death here and elsewhere but ... A lot has been said by others in this thread and the several other threads on this subject so I won't try and re-cap them all or re-hash all the very simple, straight-forward proofs that this supposed object only exists in fantasy except to add one more proof ...

Nibiru is supposed to be in an orbit 4000 yrs long and from that we know it would be travelling at a lot less than escape velocity from our Sun's gravitational pull.

That being so and considering it passage through the inner solar-system (ie our vicintity) is only 3 and a bit years away, it could not currently be further away from the Sun than about Saturn. That being so, given the size etc etc, it would currently be shining in our skies at somewhere between mag +1 and -1 -- ie one of the brightest stars in the night sky and easy naked eye (even assuming a low albiedo).

NASA couldn't keep that quiet -- it is impossible. Hundreds of amateur astronomers around the globe would be "discovering" it every night. Plus, objects of this sort are both (at that sort of range) infrared and radio bright. Probably brighter in these wavelengths than Jupiter. The fact that it is not visible naked eye now and not detectable at these other wavelengths is proof it does not exist.

Simple.

Best,

Les D

[Astro78]

Hi Les,

Just wanted to posit if planet x was traveling at say twice your estimate (or even 4x) velocity. Would that still place it roughly near Jupiter with an expected arrival of late 2012?

Without knowing it's mass or velocity, how do you conclude that it cannot escape the Suns gravity pull?

Also i would like to ask how confident you are in saying that such an object must emit radio waves?

I sincerely hope nobody takes offense to these harmless questions to someone I have respected for a long time, Les.

[ngcles]

Hi Astro 78 & All,

Legitimate questions mate and I will attempt to answer, but my answers are partly speculative as you will see because they depend on what these miscreant believers have informed the world of the characteristics of this so called "object". Believe me, they are as silly as a duck and there is not one shred of evidence to support the claim.

This object does not exist at all except in the minds of those that "believe". I do not for one moment believe it exists.

But, of those that believe, this object is said to be in orbit around the Sun and the orbit is supposed to be 4000 years long (ie it returns to the inner solar-system every 4000 years). If it is in orbit, by definition it cannot be travelling faster than escape velocity (like say the Voyager and Pioneer space probes that are on non-return trajectories away into interstellar spece).

On the basis that it is in orbit it can't realistically be any further away than about Saturn's orbit on the way in.

"Nibiru" often claimed to be a "brown dwarf" or a "failed star". This would put its mass aproximately between 13 and 75 Jupiter masses. However it is often also said that it weighs in at about 4 to 8 Jupiter masses, meaning it is really only a big planet and not a brown dwarf -- as I understand the way Astronomers classify these things.

Irrespective, on the balance, an object of this sort that ordinarily dwells in the far outer solar-system would very likely have a composition and structure similar to Jupiter sized planets ie a mixture of Hydrogen & Helium in gasseous and liquid layers with perhaps a small silicate core.

For an object say, 4-8 Jupiter masses and of similar structure and composition, it would still be approximately the same size as Jupiter (maybe a fraction smaller actually) -- only much denser. Proceeding on these reasonable assumptions (they can only be assumptions because the object actually does not exist at all as I said) it would probably have reasonably similar properties to Jupiter in terms of Albeido (ability to reflect light) and also emit radio and infrared radiation like Jupiter.

Jupiter, at 5 Astronomical Units is ordinarily about visual magnitude -2.2 in our sky here on Earth. It is the 4th brightest object after the Sun, Moon and Venus. If this thing were even 3x further away than Jupiter (ie 15AU -- between Saturn & Uranus) (closer to Uranus actually) it would be about 1/9th as bright as Jupiter putting it at approx 1st magnitude. Because Jupiter is both Infrared and Radio bright as a result of its hot, churning, metallic hydrogen core (Jupiter is the brightest radio object in the night sky) it would stick out like carrot in an omlette to astronomers (amateur and professional) all round the world now. The fact it hasn't been "found" proves it isn't there at all and certainly won't be swinging past in 2012.

Even if it were 100AU out, it would still be very radio bright and would have been detected years and years ago.

No doubt people will now start some silly explaination, like it is made of anti-matter or something that doesn't reflect or emit radiation -- that why we can't see it. Even if this were so, the gravitational effects on the outer planets and KBOs would give it it away pretty quickly.

Hope this helps. Beyond this, I can really only get sarcastic about it.


Best,

Les D

[gmbfilter]

Thank you for those observations Les.

[xelasnave]

So what you are saying Les is that you are pretty sure it is out there;)

I met a chap at my Son,s wedding who was both an astrologer and an astronomer:eyepop: so you can tell already he must know what he was talking about;) and he saw planet x with his 4 inch home built reflector:rolleyes: so its seems a fact dont you think:shrug:???

alex:):):)

[JethroB76]

Was that conversation late in the evening Alex?:lol:

Also good to hear Les confirm Planet X's existence:P:lol:

[ngcles]

Hi Alex & All,

Alex wrote:

" ... he must know what he was talking about and he saw planet x with his 4 inch home built reflector so its seems a fact ..."

:lol:

Well that's another matter altogether then! I guess if he's seen it it must be there and I'll start my preparations for the coming 2012 disaster tonight.

I should have realised that if it's on the internet, it must be true (yeah, right).

Best,

Les D

[Astro78]

Thanks for your reply Les. :thumbsup:

[xelasnave]

When this chap said he was into both I was for once lost for something to say.... and when he said he had discovered a planet I began to wonder ... so I slipped away.

mmm t shirts....I survived the 2012 disaster

alex

[AstralTraveller]

Don't scoff. It's pretty amazing what you will discover with one of those seemingly ineffective scopes once you place 12 barlows in front of your 4mm Huygens eyepiece.

This imminent disaster is obviously what Obama was referring to when he spoke of 'a planet in peril' during his acceptance speech. Go for it Barrack; you have 4 years to teach the Earth to do a sidestep.

[Ian Robinson]

:rofl::screwy:
you can't expect us learned astronomer folks , some of us with actual degrees even in physics to read your rubbish about this ficticous object with up to 7t jupiter masses on a highly elliptical orbit (period 4000 years) with out laughing.

If you know it's position and it's period and mass , where are the gazetted orbital elements ?

Give them and I'll plug them into Guide V8 and produce a finder chart so we can all have at look at it , even a very cold brown dwarf will reflect some sun light and so it will be easy to spot with the naked eye if it is even 1/8 the size of Jupiter in dimensions if it is even as far off as Saturn's orbit (look up gas reflectivities if you don't believe me). We can easily see Saturn and Jupiter with the naked eye because of the reflectivity of hydrogen and methane. It is clear you know nothing about physics.

We should also be hearing of massive orbital perturbations due to its presence in the inner solar system.

None of this has been provided and observed. :whistle: So just a load of UNREALISTIC nonsense.
:rofl:


Enough of my valuable time has been wasted reading this person's nonsense about Nibiru (the invisible companion to Sol that no one can see ....)

I'm giving this thread the flick.

[Ian Robinson]

So long as I get to see my first total solar eclipse first ....

The desaster would Palin getting to be president in 2012 .... doesn't bare thinking about. Could she be even more of desaster than Bush Jr has been ?

[Ian Robinson]

Easy fixed , get everyone on earth to jump from 2 m off ground in the right sequence in unison .... :P:lol::screwy:

[xelasnave]

I am guilty of pulling the odd leg....and so often someone will say...

I saw a bright light etc last night do you know what it could be...

I dont know but NASA are tracking a large body on a collision course with Earth...

Thats it thats what I must have seen....

No in a couple of years for the big one...that was space junk entering the atmosphere about 50 miles up about a grain of sand in size....Oh...but this one that could hit in a couple of years ...well lets just say that even the rocks will melt and everything will die...

Yes that sounds right just look at how we are destroying the planet...

Is this guilt universal but it is amazing how folk love to believe outrageous speculation of doom and stuff....and I guess thats the way of it...even I hold unconventional ideas about the Universe...

alex

[Kal]

Obviously nibiru must be made of dark matter if it can't be seen, or it's gravitational effects can't be felt

:einstein:



:lol2:

[AstralTraveller]

Actually dark matter (assuming it really exists) gives away its presence by its gravitational effects. I think the first inkling that it may exist came from studies of galactic rotation and the realisation that there had to be more mass than was seen to account for the velocity distribution.

I know, I'm a party pooper.

[Ian Robinson]

Wrong - dark matter also exhibits gravity .

Why ?oh why? did I come back to this nut's boggas hoax thread ???:shrug:

[Ian Robinson]

Darn it .... (no !!! :sadeyes: I am now talking like Miss Piggy from Alaska !!!:scared:) ya beat me to the punch ....:lol:

[drsimmo]

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the name "Nibiru" is remarkably similar to "Neberu" the Babylonian name for Jupiter?

Sorry, but this story is about as credible as Mars appearing to be half the diameter of the Moon every August. ;)

[xelasnave]

If it is so close then it makes sence they have been visiting us already and that is why the coincidence with the names... wow more proof

[xelasnave]

I say that is a joke folks for those who wonder about my beliefs
alex

[geoffrey]

thankyou for your information it was the most realistic and normal responce ive had, common sense really. once again thankyou

[Ian Robinson]

Who are you responding to ?:rofl:

In my concidered and humble opinion Nibiru believors are about as loopy as they come.:screwy:

[dunk]

Couple of good shots of Nibiru here, photographed with normal camera.
http://www.detailshere.com/niburu.htm
Some more evidence that Nibiru is really out there.
http://projectcamelot.org/bob_dean_nibiru_interview_transcrip t.html

[ngcles]

Hi Dunk & All,



Please picture me, sitting in front of the P.C, gently shaking my head in disbelief, muttering quietly but occasionally choking back fits of raucous laughter at the material at the link sites.

Dunk, if you can call that "evidence" then all the best of luck with it mate. As I said earlier, beyond this, I can only get seriously sarcastic about it ... but somehow I just can't find the energy to do so at 5.20am after a loooong night observing with the 'scope.

Off to bed now to dream dreams of Nibiru ...


Best,

Les D

[Ian Robinson]

:screwy::rofl::lol2:

[JethroB76]

Planet X was so bright the other night it ruined my DSO obs session dammit!

[KenGee]

I think Dunk needs some professional help!

[GrahamL]

Carefull guys ..the poster is probably fishing for selective quotes(even in jest) to be offered at that whackoville website as further proof of whatevers existance .. Tolerance and factual discourse isn't going to ever win the
day in this thread ... couldn't we just delete this and any further
posts on the alleged topic ;)...:thumbsup:


Or failing that lets shift the disscusion to why did this stylish
and cheap little car not find favour with car buyers ?.. and what spelled end of this car maker in the marketplace. :)

[AstralTraveller]

Hmmm, I hadn't actually expected a failed star to have tyres and headlights but I do have to admit that it is easy to see. How far does it go on a tank of plasma?

[dunk]

Hi ngcles (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/member.php?u=1638) & All

Thanks for your replies, seems Nibiru is not the easiest subject to discuss here, unless of course you are a quantum physicist, or have a Ph.D in Astronomy, we all have one of those, don't we.

Anyhow it's just a pleasure to be part of this Astronomy website, it's no doubt one of the best on this planet, we should be proud of that at least.

Thanks again for your comments.

[netwolf]

Graham, I have one of those in my driveway. Now I know its not the best car in the world but i dont think it will bring about the end of the world...

[ngcles]

Hi Dunk & All,



Dunk, I know I've only got an outside chance of persuading you otherwise but I'd just ask you to look at the claims relating to Nibiru and the Zetas etc very carefully.

Yes you are right that some of the people here are scientifically trained, many others are very well educated and a great many are extremely experienced amateur astronomers and skywatchers. That doesn't mean they have completely "closed" minds -- instead we look for "proof" -- that's all. When it doesn't exist or is so flimsy that it holds little or no credence, we have to say it how it is. I'd suggest you examine the so called evidence for Nibiru very carefully, with an open mind and I think you'll find what there is, is very flimsy and a lot of it contradicts itself and/or contradicts physical laws and the observed, proven state of things.

Please, take a good look at it with critical eyes and re-assess it carefully. I've tried very carefully in this thread to take the question seriously and not turn it into a whipping post -- mainly in the hope that some "believers" will stumble upon it and go away and question things critically. Please try and do that -- you don't need a PHd or anything like it to do that, just an intelligent inquiring mind as the vast majority here have.

Good luck in that quest.

Best,

Les D

[renormalised]

The problem with this Nibiru business is that most of the people who make these grand pronouncements about the whole thing have little to no working knowledge of science. They bring their own preconceived notions to what they read and write and because they don't understand what they see they just follow the "accepted" paradigm. Most of this stuff is quasi-religious in nature and it contains a great hodge-podge of beliefs about the "end of the world". This gets mixed in with the more loopy ideas on an equally quasi-religious nature about ET, space and such. What makes it tragic is that because they have little understanding of science, they can make any proclaimation and use real science to back up their conspiracies just by twisting the science to match what they believe in. If it sounds "scientific" enough, you can fool anyone into believing any crackpot theory...only thing is those who do know something about science can see right through the nonsense. Problem is most scientists aren't eloquent enough wordsmiths or persuasive enough speakers to be able to counter this sort on thing. It's much easier to follow and believe someone who can tell a cracker story and sound authentic enough, than to listen to someone that actually knows what they're talking about but can't get it across in a convincing enough manner. It's all about the "sales" pitch. All you need is a receptive audience, one with just enough education to be truly ignorant and easy to sway with a clever and convincing argument.

[ngcles]

Hi Renormalised & All,



Could not agree more !! Hear, hear -- well done on putting it so well

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Best,

Les D

[Ian Robinson]

Umm .... I've studied quantum physics and other advanced physics topics (not just 1st year uni stuff , but 2nd and 3rd year uni physics) , only sensible response to all this Nibiru nonsense is :screwy::rofl:. You presented no evidence what so ever, and at best the claims of some crackpot or con artist .... proof ? it's not.

I doubt any professional physicist would associate themselves with this Nibiru garbage if they want to maintain credibility.

Belongs right up there with astrology and all those other cons.

The web site you linked too asks for donations .... I hope you didn't send any money to the con artists who set up the site.

[avandonk]

Our education system has failed big time. If any people just begin to believe this absolute delusional garbage! I would have explained that the concept was as real as the the Tooth Fairy and then let them rave to their hearts content elsewhere!

Replying to twits (the OP) with the intellect of a worm is a waste of time. They are trolls or idiots. I do not resile from what I say. Just go where the fairies are with your drivel OP. Sorry I just rubbished fairies.

And don't say you just want to find out. If you can use a computer you are not the naive twit you make out.

I will say again GO AWAY you idiot!

Bert

[JethroB76]

I wonder if the shapeshifting Reptilians will save us from Planet X? Lets hope so!

I wonder what David Icke thinks? He seems to be an authority on fantasy.. er stuff like this..

[Ian Robinson]

This dribble about the coming of Nibiru has gone on for weeks here , I think it's about time the moderator closed the thread .

[xstream]

If you all just ignored it in stead of replying to it, it would quickly fade from sight.

Consider the subject now closed!