Series 500 EPs

[chunkylad]

Hi everyone

After a couple of telephone conversation with a very helpful Lee Andrews of Andrews Communications http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm, I asked the question about upgrading the standard 'series 500' EPs, for GS items, which he did for me, as I was prepared to pay the difference.

The reason for this thread is that Mr Andrews mentioned that he had vague, negative feedback regarding the series 500s, but nothing concrete.

So what specifically is wrong with these EPs ???:confuse3:

Cheers

Dave W

[ballaratdragons]

They are terrible!

[vindictive666]

gee thanks ken seeing i was given two of em wid my scope :)

a 15mm and a 30mm i dont really use the 30mm because i use the 32mm 2" gso instead :)

the 15mm doesnt give me tooooo baaaad a view :)


:wink2: :lol: :rofl: :D :ashamed: :poke: :thumbsup: :innocent: ;)

[slice of heaven]

Very descriptive and informative BD, nothing I can add to that. :)

Lee should put one of his scopes together, grab a couple of 500s and a few decent eps and try them out. Then he might wake up and see the light.
Thats a major problem with dealing with a non astronomical vendor.

[ballaratdragons]

Lee is an amatuer astronomer. He says he gets out when he can. But I bet he uses the top shelf stuff for himself!!

Yes Slick, he should do a comparison. Then he would see how bad they are.

John, I was sent 3 of them with my scope!! I gotta get some better ones.

[Starkler]

One clue is in their construction.

Instead of a proper field stop there is a plastic tube with a shiny reflective inner surface. This does not help contrast one bit.

I would be advising Lee to not bundle these eyepieces with anything better than a toy scope.

[elusiver]

I got proper GSO's with my dob.. and made sure they were the proper GSO's when i ordered them. Lee didn't charge me anything extra for the GSO over the series 500. He gave me the spiel about how they come from the same factory yada yada but i said that i'd rather the proper ones... and he was sweet with that.

el :)

[Dave47tuc]

Only one good thing for s500 Ep's :confuse3:

Yes turn them into fishing sinkers :lol:

[Starkler]

I havent spent much time at all looking through them to give a critical appraisel, simply because they were so bad compared to the other plossls I had on hand at the time. What I recall mostly is that the contrast and light scatter was woeful.

[janoskiss]

Here is a simulation of what Jupiter looks like through my 20mm s500:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~janosk/misc/jupiter-s500-sim-sml.png

The four symmetrical spikes are due to the spider; the fifth longer spike rotates with the eyepiece, and disappears when I replace the S-500 with a GS 25mm PL or a TV 15mm PL.

[gaa_ian]

Question:
How do you tell if you have Series 500 Possols from Andrews (Apart from the "terrible" views) are they labelled Series 500 ?
Mine are simply labelled "PLOSSL __MM FULLY COATED"
Are these series 500 or GS Plossl's ?

[ballaratdragons]

That's a lot clearer than my s500's!

[janoskiss]

Well, I didn't say it was good simulation! :D Just illustrates the most obvious flaw with that EP.

[Starkler]

Mine have "Andrews plossl x mm" engraved on the side in silver.

[ballaratdragons]

Ian. sorry for the quality of the close-up. This camera isn't good at the close stuff but this is how s500's are marked.

[slice of heaven]

Mine are stamped ....SERIES 500

Edit... yep like that ^ BD

[janoskiss]

Ian, my s-500s are marked:
"Series 500 PLÖSSL __mm"
and the GSO:
"PLÖSSL __mm FULLY MULTI-COATED"

Other obvious diffs:

eyecup: S500: hard plastic, GSO: soft foldable rubber;
body of GSO has recessed bit for locking in focuser, S500 is flat.

S500 20mm on the left, GSO 25mm with eyecup folded down on the right:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~janosk/misc/eps-014.jpg

[janoskiss]

Are you sure your camera is a Kodak?? :lol: My old Kodak "Millenium" has a "tulip" button for close-ups, but it takes something like 20 minutes to get a roll of film's worth of photos onto the puter over its serial link ($40 ebay job).

[gaa_ian]

Thanks Guys
That makes it really clear ... I have the GSO Plossl's thankfully :thumbsup:
I will have to make sure I tell those who I recommend to get the Andrew's Dob (and I do that often) that they insist on the GSO Plossl's.
I have been happy with my GSO plossl's :D (except the 4 & 6mm which are naturally, pretty useless)

[ballaratdragons]

Geoff, If I remember correctly, Lee said the 'Andrews' marked ones he gets labelled at Synta for him. The s500's get sent from GS factory to him with the GS scopes as an included factory accessory.

[slice of heaven]

If thats the case BD, why do Bintel supply gs plossls in their package and not 500s.(or do they,who purchased from Bintel?)
Surely the gs factory wouldnt ship varying eps with different orders.

[janoskiss]

Why wouldn't they, if that's what their customer wants? It probably means that Lee pays a bit less for his scopes than Bintel do for theirs.

[ballaratdragons]

Steve,
No tulips, just called 'zoom'. All it does is pixelate and make the pic worse!

Wadda ya expect for $120 :rofl:

[ballaratdragons]

All I remember Lee telling me was that GS ship the scopes with the series 500's as standard, and that he orders the GS EP's as accessories.

When I bought mine he said he has stopped replacing the s500's with GS EP's cause it was starting to cost him money and he has trouble selling the s500's on their own.

Alarm bells should've gone off then but I didn't know the difference!!

[Starkler]

The prosecution rests its case !

I got my scope two years ago and although mine are labelled differently, they are identical to the s500's in the photos posted here.

When I have seen gso scopes sold elsewhere like from US dealers, they invariably get supplied with 9 and 25mm gso plossls. I suspect that Andrews deletes that factory option and substitutes cheaper s500's to give a greater price advantage.

[ballaratdragons]

That's business :mad2: but it doesn't help us 'the buyers' :confuse3:

[Starkler]

Join me in my quest !
(see under my name :) )

[ballaratdragons]

Done! :thumbsup:

[slice of heaven]

Lee was offering the 2 standard 9mm and 25mm gs plossls and 2 "bonus" S500s with scopes, but mine arrived with 4 absolutely useless S500s.
delete
delete
delete
Dont you hate it when you cant post what you want to say!!!!!!!!!

I agree Starkler , anybody being recommended to buy a gs dob should be told to turn down the S500s

[Starkler]

Im in 100% agreement there. Hopefully Lee will get the message if enough people make a noise about them and he'll stop trying to flog off those godawful rubbish eyepieces.

[ballaratdragons]

Lee occasionally reads these forums. He also knows we send people to him.

If he keeps supplying crummy EP's we can always recommend Bintel instead.

[slice of heaven]

Let the crusade begin :fight:

[asimov]

I wish I did own one of these 500s! So I can mash it flat with a big hammer take a pic of it, then send the pic to Mr. Andrews..

[ballaratdragons]

Hehehe! I feel like that some nights. My GS 9mm & GS 2" SuperView are magic, my GS 2" 2x Barlow is fairly good but my s500's get me frustrated and make me want to pack up and go back inside.

Are far as my scopes mediocre performance goes, I can only put it down to the s500's.

[asimov]

I have 2 crappy EPs that came with my refractor. Nothing at all written on them though except for the size, so I don't know what they are. On axis they produce stunning images of jupiter...real contrasty, crisp excellent! But they throw out like a lens flare around jupiter.....like a ring of light, only it's not perfectly round, kind of a random shaped ring of light. Off axis their RS! Turns jupiter into a comet. When you look to see the coatings on the lenses...I can't see any coatings at all....the lenses look clear to me.

[ballaratdragons]

Might be just cheap mass-produced items to flog off to the unwary. Dork Smith EP's are a bit like that. I remember someone in here saying that Dork Smith plossls are better than the huygenians they used to supply.

But cheapos will always be around. They sell millions of them.

[asimov]

I may give one the 5 LB hammer treatment & pass the pic off as a 500 then!!

[MiG]

Heh, when I first got my dob with 4 series 500s I said that they were crappy compared to the GS Plossls I already had and people argued with me. Now look what has happened.

[ballaratdragons]

Lol!

[asimov]

'Arguing with some IISers is a lot like wrestling in the mud with a pig. After a few hours, you realise that they like it'

[ballaratdragons]

:rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl:

[iceman]

I think it's a worthwhile campaign against the s500's. Why would you sell a good quality (for the price) GS Dob with inferior quality eyepieces. The eyepieces make up so much of what's a good view and what's a bad view.

I agree it's definitely something Bintel would not do, and Andrews are obviously doing it to be able to give a cheaper price.

We (as amateurs) spend so much time warning newbies to avoid the cheap ebay rubbish, and then we have a major supplier (Andrews) of a good telescope (GSO Dob) offering up cheap shoddy eyepieces which can turn someone off astronomy just as a cheap wobbly 60mm refractor can.

The GSO Plossls aren't like a televue, but I own 4 GSO plossls (9,15,25,32) and have been quite surprised by their performance, even rating it better than the much more expensive Orion Epic ED series. They're good company for the good value GSO Dob, and replacing them with cheap s500's, that probably cost Lee a couple of dollars at the most, is bad news.

The amount of business we've sent Andrews way, we should have some weight in this campaign.

As BD said:

[Starkler]

I think all that is required from us is to advise prospective buyers to under no circumstances accept the s500 plossls as they have effectively a value of $0.
The buyer can then make up their own mind about the Bintel/Andrews value proposition.

[slice of heaven]

YEP

[ving]

guys, I realise that some of this is in jest but look at what you are getting for your price...

just for example, where else are you going to get a 8" dob for the price lee sells it for? not bintel (thier nearest competitor) they sell for about $100 more. so obviously they have to cut some sort of corner to get the price so low, and really the low price is to our beifit right? hence the s500 EPs. yeah they are crappy but for the price you are paying what do you want? televue? if he changes the package to include better EPs the price will probably have to go up. think about it that way guys.

We however are in a excellent advisory position here at the forum where we can tell newbies that the package that they are buying comes with s500s and they shoud invest a bit more cash and upgrade the EP... I think this is probably the best way of dealing with the problem rather than an all out bashing.
wht do you think?

[ving]

sorry, bintel is $150 more that andrews, just checked.

[iceman]

That's the thing Ving, if we tell them the s500's are crap, then they have to get better ones (GSO plossls, usually). If they have to pay extra for these, then the $150 price difference might only be $100 or less difference now.

yes $400 is incredible value for a great scope, however it effectively comes with no eyepieces. We just have to make sure that people realise they'll have to spend a bit extra on top of that if they want good views.

It's then up to the individual to decide, as Geoff says, on teh value proposition of Andrews v Bintel based on what Bintel offer (services, advice, GSO plossls) for that extra price.

[slice of heaven]

I cant agree Ving
People dont deserve to be landed with these evil objects.
If Andrews wants to keep supplying these eps, its a negative for his package.
I think its only right that we inform prospective gs dob buyers of this shortfall.

[chunkylad]

Hi guys,

I started this thread to find out what the downside to these series 500s was, in real terms, as Lee Andrews complained that he'd had subjective moans about them, but nothing specific and objective. I thought this might be a good opportunity to highlight some of those more specific complaints.

I think I can safely say I've opened the proverbial can of wriggly things!:lol:

To highlight the differences in the GSO Dob packages between both Andrews and Bintel (for their 12" deluxe Dob packages):
Bintel: $150 more expensive. Comes with 3x'Bintel' EPs (2x1.5", 1x2"), Fan, Crayford and an EP case.

Andrews: Crayford, fan, for $57extra, instead of the dreaded series 500s, 4xGS plossls 1.5", 1x2"GS EP, Binos, 4x colour filters(??!!), moon filter

So for $93 less than Bintel, I have 4x GS Plossls instead of 2 Bintel plossls. The rest of the 'deal sweeteners' are much of a muchness, and are probably pretty even in $$$terms:confuse3:

If it wasn't for you all on this forum, I personally would be none the wiser, and would have 4 x series 500s on the way here from Sydney reight now!
:thumbsup:
Cheers

Dave W

[slice of heaven]

You got a nice package Dave.
If Lee can extend this through the whole range of dobs that'd be great.

[iceman]

good point really, there hasn't been a specific review of them as such. I don't own any of these s500's, but if someone wants to send me one of theirs for a week i'll do a review as compared to my GS plossls of the same focal length (9, 15, 25 or 32mm). PM me if you are able to do this.

FYI: the 'bintel' plossls are GS plossls.

[Thiink]

When I got my dob from Andrews it came with two series 500's (a 4mm and a 40mm) and two GSO's (9mm and 25mm). The 40mm is actually not that bad, but the 4mm is next to useless. I'm trying to think of something else I could do it with (maybe a cheap sight tube).

If you can get all GSO plossl's for little extra then the cost saving may be worth it. The bino's you get arent really any good for astro use, but they are great for perving on the neighbours. :P

[ving]

well that was my point...
I wasnt sticking up for the 500s, they are bad. I was justifying lee putting them as part of the package (ie to bring the price down). now if anyone wants to pay a little extra like dave has done yeah sure you can get all gso EPs... lee is flexible that way.
that said, I have had 2 s500 EP and while they are not great, they are not useless at all.
I just think, as i said in the last paragraph, that we are in a perfect position to advise new comers of the options. and thats really what my post was about.
:poke:

[chunkylad]

Yeah Iceman,

I think it would be a very positve move for us as consumers to present some concrete evidence to a retailer about the quality,or lack thereof, of the accessories he's supplying.

If it shows significant lack of quality in these series 500s (as it would appear to be sure to do), then you would think this would lead to Lee Andrews upgrading the EPs he's including in his packages. A win for us!!!!:D

Cheers

[janoskiss]

I think it's fair enough if Lee wants to offer the cheapest deal, but he should be made aware of the quality difference, and let his customers know; something like: "you can have scope + s500s for X dollars, but for $60 more or whatever you can upgrade to GSO EPs, which are much better..." With the 8" scope you only get 2 EPs these days, so the cost of the upgrade around $30 would be well worth it, instead of being disappointed at first and then forking out $78 or more later.

I think a comparative review would really help new members and it would also help Lee better inform his customers. I only have the 4 & 20mm S500s, but you are welcome to them, Mike! I'll even pay the postage! In fact not only will I pay the postage, but I'll write you a cheque for $10 per eyepiece. :lol: :rofl:

P.S. Cheques will not be honoured.

[ving]

:lol2:

[slice of heaven]

I think Lee would be smart enough to realize that if the S500s cost him $8 to put on his shelf, they must be lacking in something.
Substituting the standard gs eps for S500s is not a way to encourage return business.
If this thread can turn the tables for future buyers, GOOD.

[cahullian]

I got the 8" Dob from Andrews 2 months ago and it arrived with the 9mm and 25mm GSO plossl ep's I didn't ask for them, them just came with the scope. Maybe Lee only puts the 500 series with the scopes that come with 4 ep's. I have never looked through a 500 ep ,but I cant complain about the GSO ep's. I have also the 32 mm and thanks to H0ughy a 2' 42 mm GSO.

GAzz

[shredder]

Hi All,

Just would like to add my 2 cents worth to the discussion. Everyone is talking about the GSOs and the 500s as if there is a huge price difference between them and that retailers (I dont want to be specific to a retailer here) are changing packages to suite their market.

The reality is that both series of EPs are really inexpensive to buy, and that the packages are generally done by GSO themselves, and not by the local suppliers. GSO offer the Dobs in several packages for each size, with varying eps and fans etc which is why one comapny sell one version and another sell another they simply pick a different package from the same list (prices vary accordingly with the package, and volume ordered).

You are all talking as if the reatiler is saving $50 on each eyepiece, in reality there is probably < $10 difference in the ep costs to the retailer, there really cant be more than this as the eps dont cost much more than this to buy anyway. And you have to wonder about the value of a $10 ep to start with?

So why is one reatiler cheaper than the other, its all about margins, the packages themselves make little difference, its the markup (and the volume of sales).

My suggestion is that you simply ask for the 500s to be replaced by the GSOs if you believe they really are better, or to not take them and have the price of them taken off (but dont expect too much), and buy your own separately.

Anyway thats my thoughts on the matter.....

M

[slice of heaven]

Shredder , NO there's not a huge price difference, BUT there is a difference between the quality of the 2 types and that is our main concern.
When I bought my gs Lee told me the 2 gs eps (9 +25) came standard with all gs dobs and 2 S500s were a bonus with the 12. I recieved 4 S500s .

I wasnt impressed but I have better eps anyway.
A first time buyer wont have and wont probably be any wiser, and I dont think thats fair. It could be a factor in whether a newbie continues to pursue this great hobby or not.

[iceman]

Slice is going to send me his 15 and 6.25 s500's, so I can at least compare 1 side by side with my 15 gs.

Shredder, good points you make about cost, but as slice said, it's the quality that is in question. A newbie won't know the s500's are no good, and as such may be disappointed with the view, taking into account the eyepiece, collimation, astigmatism etc. All of those things may work against a newbie and be turned off.

At least we can help address poor quality eyepiece selection, and the other issues can only be addressed through good advice and hoping that newbies discover a forum like this.

[davidpretorius]

i have series 500 and i will be reviewing them along with the premium eye pieces at the star camp in snake valley through my 10" dob and 2" crayford. once that is done, i am hoping to have a very useful reference from series 500 up to the naglers etc.

[shredder]

Oh I am having a bad day at the keyboard..... what is it they say put brain into gear before ........

What I was meaning in my previous comments was that the eps are generally standard with the scope and really cheap anyway, and probably not switched out to save costs. Whats the point to save $2-$3 per ep (and probably costs more in labour), would you really buy a scope because it was $10-20 cheaper than down the road?

I suggest that if one is genuinely better than the other and the supplier has both then they probably will change them without comment (as it is likely you will come back real soon to upgrade anyway). I was also trying to point out that you shouldnt buy the line "its costing me money" from the dealer as neither ep is worth much (in $ value).

Sorry for any confusion.

M

[MiG]

"...or to not take them and have the price of them taken off (but dont expect too much), and buy your own separately."

I specifically asked for that but I got told it's not an option. At least I got to change the 9 and 25 mm to a different size because I already had GSO versions of those ($50 all up for those plus a moon filter off E-bay, yay :) ).

The series 500s have nasty build quality (try screwing things into the thread that feels like it has been chiseled out), only single coatings and a very hard rubber eyecup, but I don't think that makes them only worthy of smashing, melting etc. This backlash seems a bit over the top. It's much easier to listen seriously to reasonable people than extremists.

[elusiver]

noone reckon's he getting them as part some sort of bundle deal? i.e Buy 5 dobs with 10 GSO eyepieces get 10 series 500 eyepieces free. Which would mean that for him to discount the dob he would HAVE to sell those 10 free eyepieces to take up the slack and make the discount valid. Now the chance of him selling the series 500's off the shelf are slim.. so he puts the the GSO's on the shelf and sell them for $50, he takes $40 off his cost off the dob and adds his margin. That's the way alot of it's done in IT now... makes sense. Why aren't the others doing it.. maybe be a relationship thing.. maybe a volume thing.. who knows.. but it's plausable.. i think.. and it's decent business.. can't argue with that. :shrug:

el :)

[ballaratdragons]

I will give a run down on my EP's while they are sitting right in front of me.

Report using GS f5 12" Dobsonian.

Series 500 - 6.5mm: Straight tube without locking recess, Hard rubber eye cup, single light-blue coating, badly threaded tube inner.

In use: Will not focus to a crisp point, Flaring of bright objects, disastrous eye relief.
Views: Poor

Series 500 - 15mm: Straight tube without locking recess, Hard rubber eye cup, single green coating, badly threaded tube inner.

In use: Will not focus to a crisp point, Flaring of bright objects, bad eye relief. Mild to very noticable image distortion at edge of FOV.

Views: Mediocre

Series 500 - 25mm: Straight tube without locking recess, Hard rubber eye cup, single light-blue coating, badly threaded tube inner, handy rubber grip around body.

In use: Will not focus to a crisp point, Flaring of bright objects, reasonable eye relief. Mild to very noticable image distortion at edge of FOV.

Views: Mediocre

GS Plossl-9mm: Locking recess, soft fold-down rubber eye cup, aqua-blue & mid-green Multi-coating, finely machined tube inner thread,

In use: Good Focus, no flaring, reasonable eye relief, Mild to nil image distortion at edge of FOV.

Views: Pleasing. Very good.

GS 2" 30mm SuperView: Locking recess, soft fold-down rubber eye cup, light-green, violet & mid-green Multi-coating, finely machined tube inner thread, threaded section not painted black.

In use: Excellent Focus, no flaring, excellent eye relief, Seagull shaped distortions at edge of FOV until cool-down.

Views: Pleasing. Excellent Wide-field views.

This is a fair & reasonable report without extrematism. :D

[davidpretorius]

great comparison ken

[ballaratdragons]

Obviously better EP's will have better reports but I don't own any!

[davidpretorius]

ken, wait until october / november when asimov sends over some naglers to try!!!!

naughty corner all over again!!!

[Starkler]

Nice to see you joined the team El :thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

SWAP: 1 of your decent EP's for 2 of my series 500's or 2 of your decent EP's for 3 of my series 500's. I will even go to the trouble of cleaning the 500's if you want!

[asimov]

In your dreams Dave! Will you settle for a televue plossl?:D

[davidpretorius]

same, now that i have my 30mm ultra wide, i would love to swap my series 500 25mm and 40mm for any single gs that is less than or equal to 25mm.

i do not use them at all any more

[elusiver]

who joined the team?? :whistle: :newbie:

:lol:

i think there's basically 2 trains of thought on this issue. I mean.. if you start with poor.. the only way is up, whereas if u start with average good.. you might be dissapointed with future purchases as they aren't THAT much better than what you have. So it could go either way, and it's really down to the individual. I mean lee could sell one of his scopes with naglers to a person who's expecting hubble images and that person would say that it was a piece of junk and give it away.

So.. i don't think that they should be taken off the market completely.. cause they have their place.. as a starting point.. like my DSE refractor ;) but.. if someone has come to IIS on their own accord.. seeking information and guidance.. well.. it shows that they intend to take their astro fairly seriously... in which case.. they should say NO to the series 500's. :D

el :)

[ballaratdragons]

Dave, You have a 40mm series 500? What a useless peice of glass! It would almost be like looking through a finderscope.

[Starkler]

I challenge anyone to try and sell their series 500's in the buy/sell forum :P
I havent seen anyone game enough to try yet :lol:

P.S. Dont do it just for a joke :poke:

[davidpretorius]

no way asimov, cos you are coming across to be there in person to help me put together the eyepiece show down!!!!!!!!

of course no one will understand us cos of our sarcasm, but hey... it will be fun!!!

ken, can you book asimov into the camp please

[asimov]

I'll swap you my wonderful no-name-coating-less EPs for your's Ken!;) No coatings means you can safely clean em' on your pants leg without doing any harm. :D

[davidpretorius]

actually ken, the 40mm was not too bad as a starter, the 6.5mm is probably the worst

[asimov]

Sarcasm!? ME!? That's a bit extreme don't you think, Hmmmm?:innocent:

[davidpretorius]

hey asimov, just noticed, well done on 1000 posts!!!!

[ballaratdragons]

Yep! 6.5mm in an f5 - f6 is fairly useless. For Mags like that it is better to Barlow a 12mm.

[davidpretorius]

sh1t, iceman is viewing this thread, quick ken and asimov, as they say in school, "back on task you three gentleman down the back!!"

.....as i was saying ken and asimov, the series 500 acro something and eso dozzer and picto namometer setting are offset by the need to extrapolate the visual doo dad to become effective to realist setting!!! don't you think???

[asimov]

Ummm. Thanks Dave. Totally agree...ummm the field lens in relation to the umm field-stop..

[iceman]

Beat me to it, was just about to say stop spamming guys.

And david please don't try and bypass the censored word filter, it's there for a reason. This is a family site.

[elusiver]

my vote for call of the night :thumbsup: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :rofl:

el :)

[elusiver]

i'm laughing so hard.. there's no emoticon to describe how much i'm laughing.. but seriously guys.. back to the s500's.. we got our ATM section!!!! so least keep on subject for mike.

el :)

[ballaratdragons]

I was!!!!

[cahullian]

I see a lot of people bagging their s500 ep's and saying that they might put others off the hobby. But you are all still interested...maybe those that are keen will find out for themselves as you all seem to have done, that better ep's give better views. When you get 2 boxes and no booklet and only one badly copied page on how to assemble your new toy, you know it's not top of the range and a few accessories are needed.
Anyone who gives up after a few looks through their scope were never really interested anyway and no doubt the telescope will end up beside the golf clubs,tennis racket,pool cue,bowling ball,footy boots,judo gear,basketball hoop,compound bow......

[davidpretorius]

oops naughty corner again!!

[Starkler]

I think most who have used their GS dobs with decent eyepieces would agree that the s500 really lets the scope down and prevents it from displaying its true potential.
There is no reason why an observer cant be satisfied with decent plossls for the rest of their observing life as the sharpness of view and contrast can near enough equal anything on the market. Its when people want quality wide views or extra eye relief at short focal lengths that eyepieces become expensive.

Buying poor quality just costs extra in the long run when you replace it.

[davidpretorius]

i have no probs with 4 free series 500 eye pieces that i received with my 10" dob. they work ok. all my freinds and family were ok looking thru them. they do however love and comment on the differnence of "the easier on the eye" views from the ultra wide 30mm

[ving]

thanks dave, I too have not had problems with 500s. they focus and you can see stuff... ok they arent televue but then you arent paying hundreds for them either. my 6.5mm 500 give ok views and works on tight doubles when the seeing is good...
think we'll just wait for mikes review. :)

[ving]

you are going to need good seeing to properly use the 6.5mm anyhow dave. in my scope it gives almost 200x magnification. its more in yours cause you have a longer FL.

[Starkler]

I have being trying to think of a good simile for using s500 plossls with a GS dob, but I think this is a reasonable one.....

"Its a bit like buying a quality high powered stereo system, and listening to it through speakers from an old el-cheapo 3 in one system."

[ving]

fixed your similie to suit better the way i feel...
:help3: