Meteor Shower "Orionids" 21/10/2007

[Meadehead]

Would I be able to see the Orionids metior showers, maximum being between 20-22 October from my backyard? Apparently observers in the southern hemisphere will see around 40 per hour - thats 1.5 per minute.
I plan to sit out in the backyard with the kids, pending weather, and any advice would be welcomed.

[fringe_dweller]

Hi John,
the short answer would be, i don't see why not!

last year the Orionids put on an surprising amazing and unexpected/unpredicted display. there was some reports last year from NZ!! of sightings in the 100's, from experienced observers i know of well.
With many bright members, from memory could of been an average of +2 magnitude!, I think.
There was some fisheye low light video imaging done from Melbourne by a member of this forum, that was very impressive.
The threads are here somewhere.
The moon situation looks kind and it nicks off in time for the potential show(s) which would be around 3 am to 4 am when the radiant is highest (EDIT: thats not hard and fast, last year i think the best times was around midnight, 11pm, from lucky forum members reports last year, depends on the peaks, but the moon is up then).
whether this one would be like last year *who knows* I havent seen one explanation of lasts year 3 day long unusual peak yet still ..(it goes for 2 or 3 days broad maxima, being the days either side of the 21st i would assume, with smaller maxima's within) ..or any predictions for this year outside of normal routine predictions

[avandonk]

John here are the relevant threads from last year. To save you searching.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=14356

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=14325

Here is one that went across the entire visible sky.
http://avandonkbl.bigblog.com.au/data/2/13839/image/02a0828264174820071011082831.gif

I hope to do it again this year with two GStarEX cameras with different fields of view.

Bert

[fringe_dweller]

thanks Bert!, doesnt get any better an idea than a timelapse animation of full sky view, of what to expect! easier than describing it lol
- but visual observers can see down to mag +7 meteors from a very dark site (no lights observable) Bert's cameras aren't getting all the fainter ones, just the brightest ones mostly, when you take that into account re avi, the mind boggles!
i hope to catch some visually mebbe, and i look forward to seeing your results Bert - clear skies to all!

[fringe_dweller]

lol i should read the namn notes more closely!
here is some interesting stuff on last years Orionids, and prospects for this years, and on - looks good!!!

http://www.namnmeteors.org/namnnotes0710.html

scroll down to october highlights/orionids

[loomberah]

I'm not sure of the time scale for those images, but it looks more like a satellite to me- it is way too slow for an Orionid. Even if it was a meteor, it wouldn't be an Orionid- it has the wrong "radiant".

Gordon

[avandonk]

The 'exposures' were 2.6 sec each. The Gstar can integrate up to 128 frames. In the third frame it went across more than half the sky in 2.6 sec. It did come from Orion as the fisheye has a curved field. Check out the stills in the second thread.
I just record them, its for others to explain them.
Bert

[loomberah]

OK, 2.6 sec per frame is much shorter than I was expecting, I guess the clouds were moving fairly fast!
I traced the path (in Guide8) through Canopus, just missing Sirius and it puts the possible radiant in Gemini, quite close to Northern Orion, and it is a fairly diffuse radiant I believe, so its likely to be an Orionid.
It is an unusually long path though, considering the radiant is above the horizon (hard to tell exactly though, as it is out of the field and I don't know the time of the exposures... so it may well be at the horizon). You generally only get such long paths with the radiant at the horizon, so the meteors skim through the atmosphere at a very shallow angle overhead.

Gordon

[fringe_dweller]

yes true it doesnt follow the meteor path length travelled one third of distance from radiant rule, but from NAMN notes

'c) METEOR LENGTH TO RADIANT RELATIONSHIP - The closer a meteor emerges from its radiant, the shorter in length the meteor will appear. If it appears right in the radiant, it will appear as a star suddenly brightening and then disappearing (known as point meteors). The further a meteor appears from the radiant the longer the path of the meteor normally appears. Associating meteors with a shower using meteor length is difficult at first, but with practice becomes second-nature. A useful rule to remember is one developed by the International Meteor Organization which states:

"For radiant elevations higher than 30° the apparent path length l of a shower meteor amounts at most to half the distance from the radiant to the start point. Consequently, the distance between radiant and start point of a plotted meteor on the chart has to be at least twice as long as the meteor path itself if the meteor is a suspected shower member."'

or the average speed for Orionids/parent body

and as you said its a shallow entry/earthgrazer, larger particle and they dont follow the rules so much? plus the path is foreshortened with regard to viewer as the radiant isnt above 30º

I checked out pedigree on some of those last year, and most complied

and i cant find it now, but as you said its a large radiant, is it a 10º diameter radiant?

[ballaratdragons]

I am happy to report that for the last 2 nights the Orionids have already sent some lovely bright meteors across our dark sky. Short but bright :)

I have been checking after 2am on both nights and haven't been dissappionted.

Hopefully 22nd should be a nice show :thumbsup:

Anyone else seen any Orionids yet?

[Meadehead]

Thanks for the feedback everyone :thanks:

I must say, some of the explanations went over my head :shrug: as I hope the Orionids will ;)

So it appears it will be worth keeping the kids up late for a show - Hopefully there will be some good reports:ship2:

[mickkk]

I have heard 4 reports in the last 7 days of meteorites? being observed in central vic around 8-10pm, the latest with orange sparks and smoke trail and suspected to have landed somewhere!

With the forecast for Vic and the early AM rugby matches on the TV, should be a great weekend for spotting!

Please Huey............just this once!

[loomberah]

No meteorites found yet though? it would have been big news, just meteors in the sky I suspect. They are probably not related to the Orionids though, if they were seen that early, the radiant is well below the horizon.


Gordon

[fringe_dweller]

Thanks for the reports/update Ken! nice one :thumbsup: keep em comin if you can!

I havent been outside late yet to look, but on a walk early evening last night saw a very impressive fireball, about as bright as the crescent moon! I dont think it had pedigree tho.

John, there is rarely much in the way of gaurantee's with meteor showers, but there is such a thing as increased/favourable odds!
the only reason there is mention of anything out of the ordinary possible is as mentioned, there was some interesting activity last year with orionids, and in history, elevated or enhanced activity beyond routine stuff, usually comes in batches of years. Say 2 or 3 years for example, so prospects, while not very scientific maybe, are statistically/anecdotally better perhaps, than years prior.
usually meteor showers are better in the years prior to and following when the parent comet or body has made a recent pass. in this case Comet Halley is the parent body, and its last inner solar system of course was in 1986, so thats why there is some doubt and scepticism from the pro's that anything is going on out of the ordinary.
Time will tell! this weekend in fact!
unexpected outbursts of activity have happened in history many times.
Last years surprise peak happened a day before the predicted and weaker main peak - I reckon sat night/sun morning is as good as anytime if limited to one night, plus there is less moon interference earlier.
anyway ill be out there, i hope! weather looks ok i think
dont forget plenty of warm stuff!

[erick]

I think you'd have more success if you can get them to sleep for some hours before you go out at 2am. ;)

[alan meehan]

after many ,many nights of watchimg for metoer showers i hope this one is going to be good the weather in newcastle is its gloomy self at the moment heaps of cloud,i will be out fri sat sun nights ,hope it all goes well :D

[fringe_dweller]

Spent around an hour and a half watching for Orionids this morning from my outer suburban backyard, last session finishing near 4 am. Only saw 5 orionids all up - nothing super speccy or out of the ordinary either - oh well, will try again, not peak yet I 'spose

[erick]

This weekend, Fri/Sat was the only overnight I had available - and the weather looks suspect for Sun/Mon. So I jumped out of bed at 1:30 and headed for the hills with my comfy chair and blanket, coffee and radio.

From around 2:30 until sunrise I saw about a dozen meteors, most of which were definitely coming from a radiant point in Orion. A couple fairly bright. All were very fast.

Stayed to watch Saturn and Venus rise, then headed for home and a few more hours sleep.

I'm happy with what I saw. :thumbsup:

[circumpolar]

Sunday morning from 2:15 - 4:05am.
Lying on the trampoline in a sleeping bag.

I saw 21 meteors. 20 of which were Orionids and one was a stray.
Only about 3-4 were bright and left trains. All were whitish in colour.
Also saw 6 satellites.

I saw less meteors last year using the same method (sleeping bag & trampoline) but many more bright one. About 10 from memory.

[h0ughy]

i was up this morning from 1.30 through til 3.30 - I counted 14 wtih two bright ones and at 3.30 there was a satellite, which was easy to see that really suprised me because of the time. I was too tired to stay up any longer was going to watch the rugby but then I thought better of it. Also the fog rolled in at that time - it was a very dewy night here.

[mickkk]

Thwarted fri and sat here by mid level mist. One of the curses of being on the coast and almost below sea level.

[jjjnettie]

A pristine clear evening ended up being cloudy with light rain in the early hours of the morning.
I don't like my chances tonight either.
Pity, I was looking forward to catching a few Orionids on the gstar.

[fringe_dweller]

clouds messed up my night mostly, so didnt travel to a dark site. few large holes in the early morning from backyard - so had a few short sessions, last one finishing at around 4 am, ...didnt see one meteor!! LOL, but I think i saw the same sat. as h0ughy saw, did it travel west to east dude? it was overhead for me, time matched yours, i enjoyed watching it tho, I love the sound of the trampoline as horizontal observing deck, man i could get used to that!
was 22C minimum for us, so players comfort was high at least ;)

[Davo3960]

I too spent Friday night and Saturday morning observing my first Orionid shower. I also tried to photograph some. I only saw 4 bright ones, almost yellow in color, but managed to image one (out of 40 x 3 minute shots I was hoping for a few more). It came from above Orions belt and went down. The others all came from below the belt, not far from Mars. Is there more than one radiant for "the Orionids"?

[jjjnettie]

Nice capture Dave.

[alan meehan]

good shot davo ,fog rolled in at 2.30 this morning could not see athing as houghy said it was dripping wet,seen 1 metoer,iam going to try tonight

[vja4Him]

I've been watching for the Orionids from work since about 1:00 a.m. I can't watch every minutes, but have been checking periodically. I've seen only five meteors so far: 1:41, 2:35, 3:20, 3:28, 3:29. One of the meteors came from within Orion, around the belt area. Another came from the top of Orion, which is actually on it's side right now. Another came from near Mars, and several more came from within Gemini, to the far left of Orion. One was a very long streak, but not bright. I may have seen several other very faint meteors, but can't be sure. There is too much light from the city, and where I work.

I'll be going outside again here soon. I'm hoping to see a better show from the Orionids ....

-- vja4Him
+++++++++++

[circumpolar]

Nice work. I was thinking while I was lying on my trampoline that wouldn't It be great to use a clicker or something to record the exact time I see a meteor and then compare it to other peoples observations. Maybe next time during the Leonids or Geminids. If I get organised I'll start a tread just for this purpose. :)

[ballaratdragons]

Last night/this morning I wasn't outside looking. It was too early. I was in the control room imaging. :lol:

Then at 1am the cloud rolled in. :sadeyes:

Tonight is partly cloudy but I will head out about 1:30-2am and see how the sky is. :thumbsup:
If it is clear I will stay out and wait for the 2:30am onwards show.

Due to our dark skies, I see many sporadics anytime I go outside and look up, but Orionids are usually very obvious. They are fast, white, and often very bright! But the radiant is always the give away.

I have attached a map of the radiant for you all. :thumbsup:

[vja4Him]

I saw nine meteors between 5:08 and 5:28. Two of them were very bright, one that left a trail which lasted about 10-15 seconds, another that appeared to give off a greenish light and a very brightg burst of light! One meteor was only about half the length of Orion's belt, another was very long, about the distance of Orion from top to bottom, but not very bright.

The meteors that I've seen are all around Orion, from above, below, and on either side, covering a wide area. Most of the meteors I've seen are around or from within Orion, but several have been from the area of Gemini and Mars. One meteor was very far to the right (west) of Orion.

My little boy (10 years old) is lying down at home outside in the chilly morning air, watching the first meteor shower he has ever seen! We are chatting on the phone, while I'm at work, and sharing the experience.

I wish that I could watch the sky more, but I have chores to do at work. Still need to finish the paper work, and grab a quick bite to eat, before I hit the swimming pool at 7:00 for a good workout, then the spa, sauna, and finally a quick workout with the weights and machines.

-- vja4Him
++++++++++

[ballaratdragons]

That's great. :thumbsup:
If you watch any part of the sky long enough you will find that you will see meteors in that area too. They actually happen all over but usually we aren't looking at the part of the sky where they zoom through. Occasionally we happen to be looking in the right spot at the right time, but they do zoom around from any direction all night long.

If you get the chance, try it some time. Lay so you are looking up at Zenith and see how many ther are in any given hour!!! They are Sporadics. (light pollution makes it hard to see the common faint fast ones)

[swannies1983]

I was just wondering is there some sort of 'rule of thumb' or 'crude' way of roughly estimating the ZHR under different sky limiting magnitudes?? i understand that many factors will impact this number. However, I'm just trying to get some idea. For example, with the current Orionids....the predicted ZHR is about 25 under perfect conditions. What could I expect under suburban Adelaide skies?

What about the Geminids? The predicted ZHR is 120.

[ballaratdragons]

The ZHR for Orionids in the Sthn Hemisphere is actually 40.
It is 20 in the Northern Hemisphere :)

[fringe_dweller]

wow nice widefield with meteor shot dave, always had a thing for those kind of shots :) you have a bit of barnards loop and all, got to be happy with that, and yes it is prety darn hard to catch even one meteor from bitter experience, need storms really ;) so you've done very well, they are extremely camera shy. even if it is a stray :) i'm not prejudiced!

for my meteor watching, i print outa scene like this from SN (usually inverted) and keep it in my orionid folder and use it every year after, ( along with a couple of specialised others for quickly determining LM's and meteor brightness - comparison stars)
with all the active radiants of the period (plus the others of course, as I can only have all showers selected at once or a single one in my old SN version)

[fringe_dweller]

here's a link many may know, but some might not, this page is usually my first stop if i didnt know off hand what was happening with all the showers

http://www.amsmeteors.org/lunsford/

note you see a few Taurids this time of year as well, nice slow bright ones usually

[fringe_dweller]

yes there is swannie, but considering ZHR is an imaginary/theoretical figure anyway, as the radiant is rarely/never at the zenith of course (unless your at the equator for this one when it crosses meridian) first you have to deduct the degrees away from zenith in the equation to give you the actual possible, and remember that is also under 6.5? mag pristine 'nearly as good as it gets' skies/conditions, rate.
I can't remember the simple equation for it offhand tho, and anyway thats changing rapidly every degree the radiant rises anyway, so its not really important once you know that, but take it into account.

then you have to know the known averaged overall median brightness of the shower members, its usually about +3 +4 area overall, thats what the leonids usually are for instance, in 'normal' years, some showers brighter, some dimmer averages.

i guess you could take that in to account with your local LM to get a rough idea anyway. but i find in the suburbs trees and buildings/houses get in the way just as much as LP with showers, and particle pollution is heaps worse in town, and imo, adds to the problems of visibilty.
i like wide open treeless areas for showers if possible :)

If the shower is a bit mild, you know in binocs your LM goes up, so you can see the dimmer previously invisible meteors zip thru fov, i have entertained myself that way in a dim shower once - was great to do now and then in lulls

i remember a storm (leonids?) but all the meteors were about mag +7 thru to mag 10 or something LOL radio obs catches it all tho - invisible meteor storm - cool!

[ballaratdragons]

No luck here tonight.
2:15am and we are completely clouded out :sadeyes:

[fringe_dweller]

same here BD! it was even raining a minute ago, its a rare sound these days! I go, - shocked- , whats that noise??!! :)

[Campus Dweller]

Found myself wide awake at 4 this morning (had an active weekend, in bed early Sunady night but obviously enough sleep had been had) so I went into the backyard and lay down on a reclining chair watching toward the radiant. Very quickly saw one meteor heading west from the radiant, then another at the same altidude heading east. A while later, saw a third nearly overrhead heading south but definately coming fronm the direction of the radiant. All three were very bright but very quick; probaly lasting less than a second. By 4:30 the sky was brightening considerably and didn't see any more.
Wish I'd woken up earlier!

[Meadehead]

I only saw two, but the kids fell asleep early in the evening and were cranky, maybe next time.

[h0ughy]

the ones I saw were faint - and most through the binos so there would have been no way to see them normally. Alan called me this morning to say he only saw a few last night/this morning - he was keen

[Sharnbrook]

How about donating a dollar to hOughy's "Relay for Life" for every Orionid you see this year? It wouldn't make much difference to the amount in your bank account, ( and it's tax deductable if you see more than 1), but it would make a considerable difference to the amount he manages to raise, and it's all in an excellent cause. Just click on the Relay for Life under his signature to find out how to donate.

[vja4Him]

I've been watching off and on for the meteors since about 1:00 a.m. Saw a very bright meteor, at 1:44, which left a trail for one or two seconds, appeared to be geenish, to the left of Orion, another at 1:53, then 2:13, and another at 2:15. The last one, at 2:15, was very low in the horizon, maybe 25-20 degrees, and way below Orion. That meteor was a slow one, the slowest meteor I can remember ever seeing! It was glowing brightly and last about two or three seconds. I wish that I could stay outside watching for meteors without any interruptions, but work duty calls ......

-- vja4Him
++++++++++++

[Karls48]

Here is few brightest Orionids captured with automated camera from Western Sydney. Capture rate 12.5fps, camera - GStar 4x Frame integration, Alt 43Deg Az about 300 Deg. Visible duration 1.36, 1.20 and 1.28 sec. AVI's stacked and convered to Jpg

[h0ughy]

top effort Karl

[gaa_ian]

Well up here in the NT we saw 20 Orionids in the hour between 4:15am and 5:15am Sunday morning. About 5 of them were bright & left brief trains
All were notable for their great speed & blueish white color.
Well worth the early morning effort for a fellow club member & I, from our beachside location.

[Rattler]

Boo One and All!

Between approximately 02:50 and 03:45, I saw 12. Of that number, 5 were lengthy and bright, of those 5, three left trails for a very short time. None displayed any colour though!

The drawback was high humidity and thus plenty of reflected light from Sydney - I am not far from the Royal National Park so generally dark skies. They were not as dark as normal so I may have missed a few. Tiredness won at about 3:50 so to bed I went.

Each cleary came from the radiant and one false event of a potential direct-on observation...a bright flash then nothing. Sadly, the same flash re-appeared towards the East, and then again further along. Aircraft...where is my Stinger? HA!

Its the first time that clouds have not ruined observing conditions for such an event!

[ballaratdragons]

:sad: It's raining here!

Yeah yeah, I know, we need it. But can't it rain last week?

[monoxide]

i haven't seen any form of clear spot in the sky for the last couple days :(

[jjjnettie]

I saw one at 2.36am, just before I shut up shop for the night.
So I'm satisfied with that.
The Leonids are next with a zhr of 20, then at a zhr of 120, The Geminids!!Yeehaa!

[fringe_dweller]

ive enjoyed being a member of the IIS orionids watch crew for 2007, it is nice making it a shared experience - great stuff everybody, and nice one Karl!

yeh its that time of year JJ - meteor season begins! :)

btw I have a new toy that will come in handy for recording counts audio wise :) altho its for other uses as well ;)
this thing totally rocks! what an era we live in!

http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h4/

[Greg Bryant]

According to a just issued circular from the IAU, the Orionids this month have had rates 80% higher than normal.

[ballaratdragons]

Thanks Greg.

Typical! Clouded out for the last few nights.

[fringe_dweller]

wow and yes thnx also! is that based on counts from radio obs? i'm not on ml of IAU.

i saw lots of mixed visual reports, some very good, some like ours - guess the moon ruined a fair bit of it?

wish it was the eta aquarids part of the stream was as active as this section ;) i remember i used to take the, in hindsight, very decent eta shows of the late 90's for granted - i was a beginner and thought that was normal lol

i see the moons a 'pain in the eyes' even worse next year :sadeyes:

[Greg Bryant]

Kearn,

The reports (peak of ZHR = 45/hr on Oct 22 11hr) suggest that they're visual.

Some OK meteor showers coming up in the next 2 months:
- Taurids
- Leonids
- and the pick of the next few months, the Geminids

[fringe_dweller]

ahh, pretty decent numbers! cheers again Greg! :thumbsup:

[gaa_ian]

Time to revive this thread !
Does anyone have reports of the Orionids over the past few mornings ?
I had great intentions of getting up early this morning, but had a few too many reds last night :drink: :cheers:

[Rob_K]

Had a look between 1 & 2am this morning (UT+11), and saw quite a few. No count, sorry, but around 10-odd in the last half hour, including some bright ones. Quite good really! :D

Cheers -

[Ian Robinson]

Saw a very bright and slow moving one last night when I put the car away for the night at about 1am.

There was a break in the clouds and the rain (which we've had plenty off last couple of days).

Crossed sky from low in the east to way past the top of my house in a SSW direction over a period of about 2 second (was bright enough to light up the backyard) and left a glowing trail that lasted several seconds. Was heading kinda in the right direction.

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/our_solar_system/meteors/orionid_meteor_shower_big_gif_image .html&edu=high
Very nice.

For those inclined to have a watch , who have cloudless skies , seems they are peaking about now : http://www.imo.net/live/orionids2008/

PS I don't generally pay much attention to meteor showers , just coincidence and happen chance that I was outside at just the right time to see this one.