Observatory - decisions, decisions!!!!

[ballaratdragons]

I am going to build an Observatory (bigger than my current Micro-obs) but I am not 100% sure where to place it. I am open to suggestions.

I have chosen 3 locations on my property (3 1/2 acres) and each one is progressively better, but with progressively bigger problems.

1. 8m from my mini Obs present location: in back yard
Pros - not far to walk, still in back yard for safety from burglars, not far to run power.
Cons - trees in the way of Northern sky up to about 45 degrees. Sill close to house lights and heat of house roof.

2. 35m from present location: in first paddock
Pros - Still not far to walk. Relatively safe. almost full sky.
Cons - Power starting get a bit far away, in line with street light.

3. 130m from present location: in back paddock (fully visible from house)
Pros - Highest spot on property (top of hill), totally unhindered sky, pitch black.
Cons - Long long way for power to get too, problem of possible break-in.

I know I could set up Solar power or a generator, but all this has to be done with a budget of $Zero. The 3rd option sounds best, but power is it's drawback.

[turbo_pascale]

Go option 3 - take SLA batteries with you until you save up to run the power up there. Treat it like a field trip, but with comfortable chairs!

One thing I have found in the 2 years I've been doing this hobby, taking the "cheaper"/"easier" option just means you have to do it again at additional expense when you get so sick of it it drives you mad.

Save the headache - do the best option, and worry about power later.

Turbo

[ballaratdragons]

Thanks for your suggestion, Turbo. It's a good way of looking at it.

What's an SLA battery?

I run one PC, one lappy, the mount, and various other 240 volt items. All up I have 8 items sucking 240v.

[nightsky]

G'Day,
For what it's worth I'd go option 3,Only wish I had a couple of acres :( I have mine about 1 mtr from the back fence :(
Cheers
Arthur

[Terry B]

I have a similar problem but on a larger scaleas I have 50ha to play with.
I want to build an observatory also. My choices are
1. 50m up my paddock near the powerpole so I can get 240v to the shed but where there are some trees up to about 30deg in all directions.
2. 300m down the paddock where there are no trees but it is blurry cold. Some 5 deg colder than in the trees but electricity is 300m away.
I have deceided on near the power pole as I don't think that I would do much viewing below 30deg anyway and getting down to -7C is just too cold.
For you, use the spot that you will use the most. That is where the skies are darkest.

[Lee]

I'm crying tears of blood for all you country folk who can't decide whereabouts on the gazillion acres under pitch dark skies to put the obs! I wish I had that much space to worry about such.... :D

Seriously - I agree - option 3 as above..... although if you build the observatory so it can be reasonably easily dismantled and moved, you could do option 2 then switch to 3..... I made mine "movable" but now I think I'm dreaming.... turned out heavier/bigger than my mental blueprints had predicted!
How about option 1 with the phone-a-friend-with-the-chainsaw lifeline??? :lol:

[okiscopey]

Got to be 3!

The idea of having a clear sky and dark conditions is surely a big drawcard. You can use battery power – and an inverter if you need 240v – same as folks do on boats and motorhomes. If the batteries are small enough you can take them back to the house for recharging. (Thinks ... you may need a pure sine wave inverter for some equipment. Also, SLA = sealed lead acid.)

It depends on your exact situation, but perhaps 'break-ins' can be partly solved by an alarm system, or planting some sort of vegetation - or make some other structure - that 'hides' the observatory.

Good luck! Hopefully next year I'll have similar choices to make, so I'll be asking you for help!

[Lee]

Sealed lead acid battery..... 12V available in a bunch of capacities - you would need a few for your stuff I think!

[janoskiss]

I'd go with option 3 too. Convert as much as possible to DC power and run off "deep cycle" SLA batteries (great prices at Radio Parts in Carnegie - no affiliation, just bought mine there). If you really need 240V for something get an inverter but 12V DC should be able to run everything. (you might need a lappy only setup or someone with knowledge of electronics to hack your PC..)

[nightsky]

G'Day,
You must have been reading my mind ;) Wish that was all I had to worry about :).
Cheers
Arthur

[erick]

One or maybe two spare batteries for the lappy might be all you need to get through the night without mains power for it.

[Terry B]

No need to cry tears just move out of that big light polution thingy called a city. Land is cheaper and you actually get what you pay for rather than what some real estate w'nker thinks he can get for it.

[norm]

Option 3 Ken.:)

Dark site would be hard to give up.

[erick]

Beg, borrow or whatever a little portable generator. Check the Cash Convertors for a used one?? I believe modern ones can be almost silent, but put it at the end of 30m of cable and it shouldn't be too loud. You just have to walk up with a few litres of petrol each evening!

[Satchmo]

Why not a solar panel to keep the batteries charged up.

[Jarrod]

Yep, A generator is the way to go. you can get a small generator for under $100, and it'll easily power your observatory. just make a little shelter to protect it from the elements and to muffle out the sound. and as Eric said, set it up 30m or so from your observatory, and all you'll notice is a faint hum.

You could also use the generator to charge a few batteries, so then you won't have to run the generator on those nights when you only plan on going out for an hour or so.

Jarrod

[rmcpb]

Option 3 with some charged batteries. When the budget allows set up a solar system for the batteries and the beer fridge :)

[acropolite]

Option 3, I know your budget is zero but... go to Bunnings and buy some 30 metre extension cords and weatherproof covers, they aren't that expensive, totally silent and don't use any fuel. If you haven't already got an RCD on your power circuit buy one at the same time, I remember seeing them for around $12 at Bunnings. With a bit of luck you'll get the power to the site for around $100, just don't let the sheep chew it...

[ballaratdragons]

That's funny :lol:
several of you suggested Generators. I have suggested generators to others before.
But if you read my first post you'll see it says:


Yes, I totally agree with all of you, option 3 is the best, but it always comes back to the Power question.

Eric, the lappy's battery is cactus and it is so old the batteries for it aren't available any more.

Steve, I can't run things on 12v as they are all 240v items (except the mount).

Yes, the possibility of running on batteries and a 240v invertor sounds great. But $Zero doesn't buy that gear.

I know it's really a dumb question when I have no $$$, but I can build almost anything from nothing. It's this power problem that has got me stumped.

Option 1 and 2 aren't a problem for power.



Quite a good idea, Lee. I might have to seriously look into that!


They are the only 3 trees on my whole property and provide cooling shade next to the house in summer. The rest of the land is clear.

[ballaratdragons]

Phil, I like your idea :)

But how far can I run extension leads before the power drops to a level where it won't run all my gear? 130m is a long way.

Also, what is an RCD?

[erick]

There should be enough long leads at the star camp in Nov to run a test for you. I expect130m to be no problem with voltage drop.

RCD = residual current device = residual current circuit breaker = earth leakage circuit breaker = safety switch. I think you can buy power leads with one fitted. You should start with that one at the house. Even a good idea to use it for short distances since you have cables and connections exposed to the moisture etc.

[Astroman]

Option 3! Build a power station at Option 2 and a cooling tower at option 1.

[ballaratdragons]

I have an excellent Burglar alarm!!!! :D

Can't hide it with bushes, it is all open clear land that can be seen easily from the road. A clump of bushes would look more conspicuous than an obs :lol:

[erick]

OK, Ken

Have we worked out your total load in amps? Let's do that.

We need to get the cheapest big roll of mains cable we can get that will reach from home to observatory. We put an RCD plug on one end and a socket on the other. We get a garden hose reel and you run it out each night as you want to use it, then wind it all back up the next morning.
Now, if we can guarantee your load will not exceed the cable specification, we might be able to use 8Amp cable (or l5Amp, if it is available) to save weight and space.

Just thinking aloud. All electricians on the site, please ignore this post!

[Bassnut]

option 3, absolutely. I run the red (outdoor) extension 15 m loose on grass, they use it on construction sites, tough as. Been there a year, no problem. The drop over 130m is no problem for your use. This is not the safest option, not good if you have kids or animals, can you string it on poles?. And DEFINITELY use an RCD trip.

[erick]

Just checked the prices of rolls - 100m max and around $2.45/m. I bought 30m extn cable from Bunnings for $20 as I recall. Cheaper to buy four extn cables.

If there is a risk of damage (sheep nibbles), I still recommend rolling up after use.

[ballaratdragons]

I can run it high on poles :)

Here is a pic showing the 3 optional locations so you can see where I mean: :thumbsup:

[nightsky]

There's always Option 4 ;)

[acropolite]

Ken, 130 metres is nothing @ 240V provided you don't want to run a 2Kw heater or similar large load. I've just measured the loop resistance of a cheapo 20 metre, 10 amp Xtn lead and it's well under 1 ohm. I'm not sure of the resistance of typical 10-15 amp extension cords but I would imagine that they're probably going to be under 5 ohms for the distance. At 2 amps load (500Watts) that equates to around 10 volts drop, you're not even going to notice it, as a percentage that's only 4% . Your laptop and gear at most would draw half an amp (around 125 Watts), the voltage drop at that current would be negligible (around 2.5 volts.). At 12 volts it's a different story, resistance causes the same voltage drop but as a percentage the drop becomes significant, so stick with 240V and you will be sweet. We recently ran a catinery wire with 90 metres of extension cord for over 2 years outside in the rain, hail and shine, as a temporary supply for a Wireless Access point, no problems whatsoever, although the WAP's power consumption was only 15 Watts.

RCD's work by detecting any current imbalance between the 240 Volt neutral and active feeds and earth. If there is any more than a few tens of milliamps difference (they come in different current trip parameters) they trip the feed. I'm fairly sure I saw one for around $12 in Bunnings just recently.

[ballaratdragons]

Thanks Phil.

I didn't understand a word of the Watts, ohms, amps, etc but it's good to know that I will be able to run 8 x 240v items at once with 130m of extension leads.

I will probably put them up on poles to keep them away from the sheep. Easier than digging a trench!

Oh, and I'll get a power surge thingy :thumbsup:

If I can, I'll buy one extension lead each month. It'll take me a while to build the obs, so I won't need power up there yet.

Which is better? 10amp leads or 15 amp leads? (depending on prices too)

[acropolite]

RCD Ken not surge thingy, if you ask for a surge thingy, it's likely the fool behind the counter will give you a surge thingy and not an RCD..:P....

There's probably not much difference between 10 & 15 amp leads, but if the cost's not too great, I'd go for 15 amp as they're likely to be lower resistance.

[ballaratdragons]

Oh, OK Phil. Thanks. An RCD :thumbsup:

I bought a 30m 10amp lead from Bunnings last year. It was only $9 !!!!!

[ballaratdragons]

Thank you to all for your input.

It appears that the vote is unanimous. The Obs will go waaayyyy up the back paddock in the nice dark unobstructed sky.

I will run power leads with an RCD at the House end. The leads will run on power poles until near the obs, then I will run it underground for the last bit so no poles or power lead obstruct the view.

Thanks again :) :thumbsup:

[Bassnut]

also get an intruder alarm ;-). Its up to you, some may dissagree, but id get the outdoor grade extension (comes in bright colours depending on grade, red, yellow etc) they are UV and weather reistant. I think indoor lead will deteriate quickly in the sun and weather. Check the prices.

[ballaratdragons]

Yep, got one. It is the one that causes pain. The sound is designed to cause severe pain and Nausea. Even ear plugs don't stop it coz the sound wave is at a frequency that goes right through your skull!!!
It works, coz I have accidentally set it off and I had trouble turning it off even with the control in my hand. I felt very sick afterwards.
I had it in my Harley-Davidson shop and the Insurance company loved it :P



Thanks for the tip :thumbsup:

[Ric]

Hi Ken, I think option 3 will be the best and the darkest in the long run and I think you'll be happier when it's finished.:thumbsup:

Don't worry about the burglers those electrified killer sheep will look after the Obs for you. :lol:

Cheers

[ballaratdragons]

:rofl:

Just so all of you can see why I prefer to use option 3, here are the views to North South East and West from the exact location on the hill :)

[Ric]

Definitely great unobstructed views Ken, Thats where I'd be parking for sure.

Those clouds know exactly what your up to as well looking at the way they are hanging around.

Cheers

[ballaratdragons]

Yeah, they did blow away later in the evening (for a while anyway).

I have marked where I currently image from in my Mini Obs :thumbsup:

I guess it suits that Real Estate saying 'Location, Location' :lol:

[Ric]

Geez, what's that green stuff Ken?

I haven't seen much of that at my farm in a long while. :lol:

Kee and I have dust bowl brown. :D

Cheers