Moon Hoax

[frogman]

Guys the builder here is adamant there was NO moon landing , and that the yanks faked the whole thing......
Do you know what part of the moon the landing happened ? and has anyone found the landing site through their scopes ????

Or spotted the lunar "Cart/module" is there any evidence of the landing ????

Tah guys

Anthony :abduct:

[[1ponders]]

Too small and tooo far for us to see with our scopes. Ask him if the Russians were faking it too. Apollo 11 landed at the edge of the sea of tranquility.

[ving]

I saw the flag last night.... ok I cant back that up ;)

It a good way to start an arguement tho. I said to a co-worker that it was all a hoax, it never really happened...
now she isnt american or anything but she got really offended by it. she said she considered it the highlight achievement of her generation and to sugest that this achievement was all a hoax was insulting her and everyone in her generation... or something...

there you go hey.

I personally see no harn in believing and will leave an open mind to the whole topic :)

[slice of heaven]

Might have to get Mythbusters onto it !

[toetoe]

I would like to believe that it did happen, but it is so hard for one to find out which way to lean as on both sides of the fence there are very strong arguments to say they did and they did not. I think this one will be 50 50 for some time yet.

[slice of heaven]

Easy, ask the Russians.
They watched and tracked every move the Yanks made.
It was a race between both of them.
They both wanted to claim superiority in the spacerace and the Yanks had had their butts kicked by the Russians in the race for so long. Kennedy used it as a platform to show superiority over the Russians during the cold war. Both wanted to be 'THE' superpower.
At least the race slowed the nuclear accumulation for a while .
The Russians pumped so much money into the race to the moon they couldnt afford to expand their nuclear arsenal.
They stooged the Yanks in this area by assembling the ICBMs in the factory,shipping them out in plain view of the US spy planes, then disassembling them and shipping them back to be rebuilt and so on.

[astroron]

Please tell me how they brought back Moon Rocks to the total I think of 35kg, (it might have been more) which went to laboritaries all over the world and also brought back the camera from one of the surveyer Luner craft luanched a couple of years earlyer, Also since then we have sent space craft to all parts of the Solar system without anyone doubting that they are rearly going there, also note that a guy who called Buzz Aldrin a lyer got a smack in the the face for his troubles. Astroron

[slice of heaven]

If they had a moon filter for the Hubble maybe we'd get a look.

[iceman]

Check out this site, Bad Astronomy, where Phil Plaitt debunks the moon hoax theory.

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

Of course they went to the moon..

[astroron]

Th Hubble Space Telescope is a 2.4m scope looking for something the size os a small shed at 300,000 kms is a bit ofa tall order. also they have imaged the Moon with hubble and it was not any better than ground based images

Astroron

[[1ponders]]

How about using one of the non government owned satellites that take such great close ups of the earth to spin around the other way and snap a few of the landing sites on the moon.

[astroron]

Smart 1 a ESA satalite is currently in orbit around the Moon and is going as close as about 100kms from the surface and they still do not have the resalution power to image such a small object. Astroron

[ving]

thier orbit of earth is a hell of a lot closer than to the moon... they wouldnt be able to zoom in enought me thinks.

[EddieT]

Hmm, well it takes a bit to get my goat but this topic gets my whole herd!

For starters, everything man-made on the moon is too small to be seen by any telescope whether earth or space-based. Remember we're talking about seeing something a few meters wide at most, from over a quarter of a million km away! We just don't have the technology. Even the Hubble space telescope has nowhere near the resolution capable of detecting the largest thing we left up there.

I have to say that there is absolutely *no* compelling evidence that the moon landings didn't happen. But unfortunately, a certain level of knowledge in multiple disciplines is needed to understand why the conspiracy *evidence* is made up of completely uninformed observations. it's just too hard to understand without that knowledge.

I also feel sorry for the thousands of people that took part in the most monumental human endeavour ever, only to have it's very existence disputed by an equally monumental lack of understanding.

I personally know someone who worked for channel Nine at Honeysuckle creek, who directly took part in the transmission of the landing. Pulling off a hoax that made it look like the transmission was coming from the moon, to the whole world as the world turned would have been as complex an undertaking as actually landing on it.

The Moon Landings are an accepted part of history. The conspiracy theory was a show produced by Fox television. It's important to remember the difference.

[slice of heaven]

The link replies well to the Fox program Ice.
The anagram lister at the bottom is nifty too.

The anagram for The bad Astronomer was appropriate
MOON TRASH DEBATER

[iceman]

Bad Astronomy is a great site..

[Jonathan]

It's an insult to all the people that have spent their lives making it happen to even suggest it was faked.

Here's some light reading that explains many claims of the conspiracy theorists.

http://www.lunaranomalies.com/fake-moon.htm

[xstream]

More to the point is how they ever managed to bring any of the astronauts back alive during those first Apollo missions.
If any of you ever get the chance read a book called,
"Failure is not an option" by Gene Kranz.
It's about Mission Control from Mercury to Apollo 13 and beyond.
It's a real eye opener. I'll just say I'm glad I never decided to be an Astronaut.:D

[ving]

it safer to be an astronaut these days.... none of them leave the planet.

[silvinator]

I have read many of the conspiracy theorists arguments about why they think the moon landing was fake. Although the reasons may seem plausible at first, once you read the rebuttals for these particular arguments, it is very hard not to see which group is basing their arguments on scientifc fact, and which ones are holding onto their ideals and beliefs in the face of hard scientifc evidence, often just for sake of arguing or because they have a paranoia about government cover ups and conspiracies and simply refuse to be educated by the facts.
There are classic arguments on the Bad Astronomy bulletin boards that I've read. For example, the author of this moon hoax (http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html) website has constantly had every single one of his arguments debunked and refuted easily. The main defender of the moon landings from these bulletin boards has a website devoted entirely to proving the conspiracy theory wrong. It is at http://www.clavius.org/. I have read through this site, various moon hoax websites, and the majority of the arguments on the Bad Astronomy bulletin boards now and find it very hard to believe anything these conspirarists say about the moon landings.
It is because of astronauts like Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin that I felt compelled to look starward from a very young age. And it saddens me greatly to see this kind of disillusionment and loss of faith in such a wonderful dream as that of landing a human being on the moon. Can we ever reach for anything beyond the stars?
I hope you manage to convince your builder friend Anthony.

[fringe_dweller]

I once read that many large aperture scopes (including the opposition) were able to see the orbiter - orbiting the moon (I dont know if that is mentioned in the above linked webpages or not) Didnt the Russians even help with relaying transmissions and stuff? And what about some of those amateur ham radio guys - werent they able to monitor some transmissions and do telemetry with such transmissions - i could be talking thru my hat here?? LOL sorry
I remember the half day off school in grade 5/6? and watching it on telly very clearly - the excitement and emotion is hard to convey these days of course.
Cheers
Fringey

[Astroman]

I don't know about being hard to convey, I always get a tear to the eye when the shuttle goes up or down or seeing a sattelite being deployed, maybe I am just soft, but to me it shows how smart we are, but how much we are being held back by govenments etc... ooops sorry getting polltical now.

True hell yess, would cost a hell of alot more to fake it.

[fringe_dweller]

stuffed up again! was born '63 so in grade 1 or 2 - good grief - dont remember much else from that age - but i remember that vividly - I have definitely got to think more before posting - profuse apologies! (do many ppl get these posts as emails? - i hope not! - or are the boards more commonly just perused via a browser? if they do get em as emails broadly - then i will be more careful in bulk postings)
Re shuttle i always find it eerie to think i had a great long accidental look at Columbia in the west the evening before, not having a clue to what was to happen of course. i didnt normally look out for shuttle passings - and i hadnt consiously seen it for ages at the time.
Fringey

[Dennis]

I lived through the Mercury, Gemini, Luna and Apollo era and there is no doubt that what we saw and heard was real and not part of a multi-faceted, international, decade long, coordinated, enduring and sophisticated hoax.

Born in 1954 and having lived through the amazing ‘60s, I enjoy first hand knowledge of all these programs, that ran consistently like a daily thread throughout my life in that decade.

People who did not live through Mercury, Gemini, Luna and Apollo do not have any personal experience, so it is easy to unsettle their beliefs; they do not have the benefit and reality of a decade of actual life experience, indelibly impressed in countless memories, from living daily with these enormous well publicised programs, with their myriad images, live broadcasts from multiple networks, spanning multiple countries, straddling some 10 years.

To try to tell me that what I lived through and experienced from Apollo 11 in 1969 through to Apollo 17 in 1972 is a hoax, is as nonsensical and absurd as saying that I did not have a delicious home made curry for tea tonight and that I am not typing this message on my keyboard.

Someone who has not lived through my experience may only have a two dimensional photo as a reference point. If that photo "looks strange" and they have no other knowledge of Apollo then yes - they can doubt the program and be swayed by inaccurate arguments.

I know what I saw and lived through, and who I am. There was no hoax - Apollo and the lunar landings were real.

Cheers

Dennis

[Moonman]

Ultimately any endeavour noble or otherwise will always be a target for skepticism and ridicule as we exist in a post-modern world were all authority and knowledge is to be questioned.

Unfortunately in this case its a real kick in the teeth for all those who strived to makethe Moon Landings a reality and to create one of the truly great and everlasting moments in History.

The conspiracy theorists seemingly thrive on the despair and doubt they create in peoples minds' especially in a modern world where all authority, scientific, political and religous is held as questionable.

[ballaratdragons]

I have a very open mind to accept changes in information.

Often it can be exciting to discover new findings (eg: I got excited to find out LMC is a barred spiral).

But I remember being sent home from school (school didn't have a TV) to watch this monumental event on telly. I watched in awe!

For many many years I would look up at the 'ol fella' and say "men have been up there, Wow!"

If it is ever proven to be a fake, one of the greatest memories of my childhood would be dashed.

I believe they where there, but if for the sake of some stupid political game it was all faked, and could prove it, I would be devistated.

I would have to accept it, but gee I wouldn't be happy.

[mojo]

no. but you can see the shadow the lunar modules cast.
http://stupendous.rit.edu/richmond/answers/lunar_lander.html

It always amazes me that people are more inclined to believe lying scum of the earth Rupert Murdoch media, than thousands of scientists and not to mention the Russians who would have been the first to blow the whistle if it didn't happen.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

[ballaratdragons]

Paul,

You are making me feel better. To me, the memory of watching the event is one of those warm fuzzies you get when being nostalgic about childhood.

Sorry to sound non-scientific about it, but it was an important milestone in my life watching it happen.

I did watch the documentary about the 'Hoax' and it didn't convince me! No-one, NO-ONE would get away with a hoax that big.

[rumples riot]

See you only have to think about it and it all makes sense. The hoaxsters can't win if you use logic.

[slice of heaven]

Good thread Froggy

[wavelandscott]

No real point or meaning in this post...just a pointless ramble (not so different than my normal post)

I find this topic curious on so many levels...

One, "science" oriented people can get excited about science and its defense...we use the terms fact, logic etc. (not belief or trust) but do participate in a quest for "truth"...is it fair to say that we become "passionate and emotional" about it...what would Mr. Spock say?

Second, that we live in a time that is so cynical and sceptical that governments (or most anything larger than our immediate clan) can not be trusted...(again an absence of belief and/or trust)

Where did the belief and trust in our insitutions or each other go?

Growing up in the US during the time of the Apollo launches and Viet Nam...I am torn between the conflicting viewpoints...

While I have no doubt about the moon landings authenticity (they happened)...living in a time of "advertising and spin control" even I find myself attracted to the pseudo science appeal of the conspiracy theory...

What an odd being us humans are...

And with that, I "believe" that I will go to bed!

[Rodstar]

The hoax theory reminds me of the claims of astrology; people believe what they want to believe, no matter how idiotic or unscientific those beliefs may be.

[jackenau]

What a good analogy of the subject.

It did happen!

Some people just have to come up with different inferences as to why it did not happen, makes the world go around.

A bit like a debate team -

Ken M

[ballaratdragons]

Ken M,

About $2.

Extra with sauce!

[astroron]

As I lay in my tent in a malay jungle listening to the Moon landing on the Voice of America Armed Forces radio from Vietnam I was so exited that it was happening in my life time and then when I got back to Singapore and watched the grainy images played over and over again, it was one of the great moments of my life, and whatever any of the sceptics say I will go to my grave believing that it happened. Astroron

[ballaratdragons]

Very well put Ron!

It was special wasn't it!

[slice of heaven]

BD
7c with sauce when they stepped on the moon

[MiG]

Errr, excuse me? Both sides have strong arguments? No, one side is filled with morons who have no clue about anything technical.
There are also people that aren't really morons, but they don't have a clue about general scientific knowledge and as such they believe the morons' "arguments". :mad2:

This topic always sets me off.


As for the good old glory days and governments holding things back, how do you expect enourmous quantities of tax payer money to be spent on space when tax payers aren't interested?
Although a counter argument could be that this happens with war funding already.

[johnno]

Hi All,
I was a teenager at the time,and I firmly believe the moon landing was NOT a hoax.
My reasoning has nothing to do with scientific fact,or anything else,other than the fact,that humans being what we are, could not possibly keep quiet if it was a hoax,There must have been hundreds of people very closely associated with the landing,if it was a hoax I find it impossible to believe all these people have kept quiet over so many years.
Regards.John

[ving]

I believe that it is possible that people landed on the moon. I also believe it probable... at the sam time I keep an open mind to arguements against the landing. closed mindedness is bad in so many ways....

that said.... THERE ARE NO ALIENS :P

[robin]

Don't get me started on this conspiracy theory rubbish. Of course we landed on the moon. I was 7 at the time & watched with fascination at the grainy images unfolding on our schools b/w tv.
Conspiracy theorists are never happy & even if we could see the rovers (not even the most powerful scope on earth can see them-they're too small) those conspiracists would say that was a fake . Even if we returned to the moon & brought home a lander or rover, they'd claim that to be faked too.Get over it conspiracy theorists - go back to your Bermuda Triangle theories or Big foot theories but we did land so accept it ok........... :-)

[ballaratdragons]

Slice,

You got ripped off! We weren't charged for sauce where I lived when man stepped on the moon.

Matches were free if you bought cigarettes and every pack of rolling tobacco came with a free pack of roley papers.

Also the pickled onion was free with fish and chips (if you wanted one).

Wow times change! Give me back the good ol' days.

[slice of heaven]

I know it was free. 7c with or 7c w/out
20c for lunch...7c for a pie with sauce + medium coke 13c =20c.
Eat the pie..drink the coke...cash the bottle back in ..5c..and get a kitchener bun...not bad value.

Matches were 2c a box....you didnt get them free with crackers.LOL

[jackenau]

Ken good to see you picked it. $2 now 7 c then. Bit like your reference to the good ol' days. To a lot of people "now" will be the good ol' days.

What people have learnt, be it right or wrong, "is to question everything".

The answer should still be the same, but unfortunately with all the resources available, people get caught up in all the hype and judgement is clouded.

They don't look to prove, they find it easier to discount a fact because it is easier. They cannot accept reality.

However it is their right to question.

We also have the right to reject their conclusion. Is what makes the world go round.

Me, I agree with you, but I don't let it get to me.

Ken M

[ballaratdragons]

Neither do I coz we can't go back. I accept and move on and try make my kids present a delightful past when they are older. Their memories will have the same effect as ours, only different subjects!

When I tell my kids I watched Man walk on the Moon on telly they just look blank and say "that's nice".