ToUcam imaging help

[Zander]

hi guys, i have a Phillips ToUcam 840 Pro II and have a homemade dodgey adapter made with a camera film holder. when i try to look at objects using it however, i cant get anything into focus. the focuser wont go in close enough to the secondary mirror to get anything in focus. is it possible to get things in focus without using a barlow??
any replies would be much appreciated :) thnx

[ballaratdragons]

Hi Zander,

A Toucam should pull focus with the factory set 2ndry and primary, unless you have made your adaptor too long. The Chip in the camera needs to get as close as possible to the 2ndry. Try shortening your adaptor so The Toucam is closer to the scope :thumbsup:

If that fails, you may have to adjust (or even relocate) the Primary mirror further up the tube.

[Zander]

hey Ken,
thnx for the reply. i have the camera pushed right up flush with the focuser and the focuser in as far as it can go :(. relocating the primary mirror sounds scary:P is there any other way to do it? would bying a barlow fix it or not..?

[ballaratdragons]

Nope, a Barlow won't fix it entirely. It will give you a larger fainter image.

Try adjusting the mirror up the tube as far as the adjustment screws will allow you to go.

See how that goes before attempting the next method.

[iceman]

How do you know it's not in focus? What are you seeing? What objects are you pointing at?

Can you record an avi or what you're seeing and use registax to stack it and produce an image, or something like virtualdub to extract a frame from it so you can then save it as a jpeg and post it here?

The TOUcam at prime focus shouldn't have trouble focusing in any of the GSO dobs. It's definitely worth trying a 2x barlow though and see if that helps.

[middy]

Just checking, but did you unscrew the lens from the webcam first? :shrug:

[Omaroo]

Middy - do you still have the original little chromed ToUcam lens on? You must remove it and replace it with a Mogg adapter or something similar. You need to be able to focus the light directly onto the CCD array - and not through the original lens. The Mogg adapter ( http://webcaddy.com.au/ ) replaces the original lens and allows you to use the whole camera/lens assebmbly as you would a 1.25" eyepiece. They aren't expensive so my advice is to get one soon. :)

Cheers
Chris

[middy]

No, I took it off. The more important question is did the original poster (Zander) remove the lens from their Toucam? :P :whistle:

[Omaroo]

Yep - sorry - responding to wrong user. :doh:

[ving]

well i think this is settled. tell us how you go with the above advice tho :)

[Zander]

hey thnx guys for all the replies.
yes i have taken the silver lense off the ToUcam and have the ccd chip exposed. i have made an adapter with an old camera film and a bit of plastic tube that screws into the camera. I have tried to get an image of Jupiter but I just cant get a clear image. if i move the focusser out, the image just gets larger and the outline of the secondary mirror can be seen. when i move the focusser in as far as it can go, the image gets smaller, but it still needs to go in a tad further to become clear. i think i may need to adjust the primary mirror location as advised below.

[ving]

hmm... is there any way you can get the toucam (and chip) closer to the focuser by modifying your adapter? if it is too far out then you wont have the infocus you require. alternatively can you take a picture of your setup?

[Zander]

here is a pic of the adapter i am usin. there is tape on the smaller tube to give it a tighter fit in the camera and to act as a thread.

[Zander]

there is no way i can get it closer. the adapter pushed right into the focuser, so the camera is flush with the focusser. the only way i'd get it closer would be to take the camera apart in order to get the chip iteslf closer:shrug:

[erick]

Nothing different about the focuser? Standard Bintel 2" Crayford focuser?

[Zander]

yeah its stock. I havent changed it or anything.

[erick]

OK, as suggested, post a couple of photos from different angles - see if someone can spot anything.

Also, might be easier to set up during daylight on a distant terrestrial object (hilltop, TV antenna etc.) Then you can concentrate on getting into focus and not worry about tracking the object.

Ken's suggestion of screwing the primary screws in as far as possible to move the primary mirror up the tube might be next. If you can monitor the captured image after you turn each screw a turn or two you might see what is happening.

[Zander]

i can focus on terrestrail objects alright. just when i treid to focus on jupiter last night and its moons last night, i couldn't. i'll take some pics of my setup though, see if any1 can see wat im doin wrong :P

[Zander]

here are some pics of my setup. hope this helps to find out the problem :P

[ballaratdragons]

Ahhhh, I can see one thing that might help!!!! (the pics certainly help see whats going on)

Remove the outer covers from the Toucam, that will give you about another 4mm inward travel. Try that to start with.

[Zander]

hey thanks so much Ken:), i'll do that and a bit of modifications to my adapter to make it a bit shorter. i just hope some of these clouds clear up for tonight so i can see if it works :P

[ballaratdragons]

Here are 2 pics to explain about the outer covers. They just unclip to get off.
Having all the covers on also traps more heat inside the body.

1. Notice how both Toucams have no outer covers.

2. the front cover looks like this.

[Zander]

that's done it i think :D
thanks so much guys for all ur help. u guys from IIS r the best! :P:thumbsup:

[iceman]

Don't forget to try the barlow! Jupiter will look much better, too!

[Zander]

i'll try a barlow when i get a barlow :D, know of a good and reasonable priced barlow? i was looking at tele vue powermate 5x, tad expensive though.

[ballaratdragons]

Good to hear that it has fixed it Zander!!! :thumbsup:

Does it pull good focus now?

Pics, show us pics thru it :)

[Zander]

bah, yeah i can kinda focus. i am a very big noob when it comes to capturing. i tried but failed most brilliantly. the image is too bright and absolutley no detail can be seen. also when i started capturing and tried to stop capturing, the program would freeze everytime if i did a capture over 5 secs long :S. meh anyways, here's "Jupiter" lol :P :lol:

[ballaratdragons]

Nearly there. :)

The Galilean Moon looks like it is almost focused :thumbsup:

Keep trying the imaging. You'll get it right :)

[Zander]

am i overexposing or sumthing? how come Jupiter is soo bright and no detail can be seen? should i use a moon filter or something? On Mike's tutorial, his Jupiter isn't bright at all, and detail can be seen :S

[ballaratdragons]

Yep, you are over-exposing. Best to wait for the Planetary folk to come and help. I've never really got good Planetary images. I'm a DSO imager.

There are plenty of folk in here that are great with the planets, I'm not one of them.

[Zander]

ah k, thanks for all ur help Ken. i'm tired so im heading off. cya l8er
Clear Skies :thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

Been a pleasure helping.

If you ever get the Toucam Modified, then I'll be able to help further. :thumbsup:

[[1ponders]]

What program are you using for capture? If you are not already using it, download and use K3CCDTools (http://www.pk3.org/Astro/) V1. It's free, you just need to download a new key every month and half or so.Go to the "My Downloads" section and then the K3 link.

Download WcCtrl (WebCamControl) (http://www.burri-web.org/bm98/soft/wcctrl/index.htm) and use it to control your exposure, gain, frame rates etc. You can do this in K3 but I find having WcCtrl makes rapid adjustments much easier and more precise.

Oh and yes your Jupiter is waaaayyy over exposed. ;)

[erick]

Are you taking single pic or video?

Yep, search for the brightness controls in your current webcam program until you download better programs recomemnded below.

[Zander]

i use K3CCD to capture. except when i try to capture an avi anymore than 5 secs long and try to stop it, the program just freezes and i have to ctrl alt delete and end task to stop it and the avi is lost :S. i press the little icon in the toolbar at the top to capture, and i press it again to try and stop recording. am i doin it right? it gets frustrating when it freezes all the time :shrug:

[ving]

what sorta puter yuo running?

[Zander]

i was usin my mums laptop, its a pentium, 2.4Ghz . i dont know wat graphics card its got, but it does play Warcraft III on it with no problems :S

[ving]

oh, then thats plenty of power! i only runa 1ghz.

hmm... next...

[Zander]

are there any other programs taht i can use to capture with?

[ballaratdragons]

Many will suggest K3ccdtools and other programs. I just run the Philips software that came with the Toucam coz I like things simple. :P

For Long exposures I use Desire. Must be the simplest long exposure program that exists. :lol: