New Computer, Maybe

[leon]

Hi Guys, I was considering getting a all in one stand alone computer, and move away from the desktop, and just keep the desktop to do my photo processing as it has the programs i like, and that works for me .:)

I am not overly experienced with other Operating Systems as I have always been with Windows, which has worked OK for me so far.

It dose not have to be the biggest and the best, just something reasonably portable and easy to use.

So to all you guys who know much more than me and have seen my Computer posts of the past, :rolleyes: what would you suggest please. :)

Thanks in advance. :thumbsup:

Leon :thumbsup:

[mura_gadi]

Stay away from all in ones, please. Anyone component goes you put the lot in the bin normally, the older ones suffered from screen failures and they tend to get "slow" very quickly.

You still have a power cable and possible a internet cable anyway, mouse and keyboard, so, either go a component desk top or get true portability with a lappy/ipad depending on your needs.

The desktop can start as a bare box and be built-up or upgraded or components replaced as required. Plenty of sub 1k gaming boxes that will process well and have a midrange video card for photo and video editing.

Stay a year/18months behind technology and you can normally get a good laptop with plenty of memory and grunt from the "geeks" doing upgrades... at a reasonable price.

[leon]

Excellent point Steve, didn't quite look at like that.

I do have to admit i love my Desk Tops and as you say they are so easy to work on.

Hmmm, maybe I had better stay with the devil I know, than to venture into the unknown.:shrug:

Thank you for your response.:thumbsup:

Leon:thumbsup:

[multiweb]

You should talk to/Pm David (H0ughy). He's pretty switched on with all this tech stuff and always willing to help.:thumbsup:

PS: if he doesn't answer straight away keep at it. He can get very busy at times.

[leon]

Thanks Marc, I will keep that in mind.

Leon

[h0ughy]

Actually the minister of electronic antiquities would be RB

[mura_gadi]

Harsh - over 5years and your Monster of Electronic Antiquities...

but true -
PC's lose half the price walking out the door, 4 years later, maybe a good talking piece for a boat anchor.

*Before I get greenie'd - remove all the bits and a few bricks, great sand anchors.

[mura_gadi]

Hello again,

Sorry just a thought, if you have SSD slots but haven't utilised them... then that's probably your fastest and cheapest up. Throw windows onto a SSD drive its a good improvement.


*If you have a Solid State Drive and a local hard drive but have no idea where software has been installing itself, clean up the SSD.

[rustigsmed]

Hi Leon
I can assist providing a list of compatible parts you can order from an online store if you like. You'd have to put it together but you save money doing that - if you feel comfortable doing that. There are plenty of good guides online (don't use the verge's guide tho)
Did you have a budget, do you need a monitor etc?

Cheers

[leon]

Thanks Russell, now that sounds like a nice project, I am very handy when it comes to building stuff even Desk Tops, so that list might be a great idea, thank you.

There is no budget as such, and i have all the other bits, like two Monitors, keyboards and everything else a Desk Top might need.

That would be great, thanks.

Leon

[rustigsmed]

hi leon,

no worries.

my suggestion is below - with options. I would choose perhaps any of mwave.com.au / pccasegear.com / scorptec.com.au / ple.com.au and centrecom.com.au for parts delivered. Might be best to try and get most from the same place to save on shipping. You'll find that they are pretty even but some products are slightly up and down depending on the part.

PCPartPicker Part List: https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/Wh4Vwc

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600G 3.9 GHz 6-Core Processor ($319.00 @ Centre Com)
This cpu is an apu so has onboard graphics - no graphics card is needed with the build - it also comes with a decent enough cpu cooler

Motherboard WITH WIFI included: Gigabyte B550M DS3H AC Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($125.00 @ Centre Com) I would just ring the place before you order to make sure the bios version is new enough for the 5600g above (they should be ok) if it isn't I'd ask them to update it so the cpu works)

Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory ($99.00 @ Centre Com)

Storage: Crucial P1 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($239.00 @ Mwave Australia)

OPTIONAL ADDITIONAL SSD/fast Storage: Crucial MX500 2 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($249.00 @ Centre Com)

OPTIONAL ADDITIONAL CHEAP but slow Storage: Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($67.00 @ Centre Com)

Case: Deepcool E-Shield ATX Mid Tower Case ($59.00 @ PLE Computers)
You can choose what you like really here

Power Supply: Antec NeoECO Gold ZEN 600 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($99.00 @ Mwave Australia) A bit of overkill - this website doesn't have lower tier ones to choose from - ideall 450watts gold rating will be good - this one is fine and is modular which saves space with cables


Cheers :thumbsup:

[mura_gadi]

Nice options, but the APU struggles with video/picture editing compared to a dedicated card. With a low power option you won't be able to run a mid ranged card from 600w later.

If you're only looking at browser and windows apps then np its a nice rig. If you want to run AP processing or any real GPU work I would have my doubts, or be prepared to be patient.


"If you don't play games then it's worth it. If you want to play games then definitely it's not good choice. Integrated or CPU graphics are not at all for gaming, they are intended for working in 2D software like Word, Excel and other that are not GPU hungry."

Which on the plus side is the grandkids will not take over your PC as a gaming rig when they visit.

I would also suggest the box gets a good percentage of the budget. One is the power supply does amazing things to the home AC current. If a chip is running at 1.2ghz thats 1.2 billion cycles of +5/-5 watt power waves a second. A PC will only process when a wave peak trough is greater than about 4.5+- watt. So, no power cycle no processing between that peak and trough under +4.4 and over -4.4. You can lose a lot of clock speed from a cheap power supply.

The other is heat control, heat is the best way to start cooking your "transistors", you may have billions but running too high for too long will see you kill off large numbers. Its why you never buy a second OC PC. Get a box with a large airflow, air intakes should have removeable dust covers. A full size tower will have 1.2+sqm of fans. (you'll also get a universal MB mounting option for most, HB included so MB upgrades are easier later)

Russel got a great PC but I'm just coming from the other side a little to make try an work out where you want to go at the end of this.

[rustigsmed]

Well the 5600g can actually game quite well it's a very powerful apu. The benefit is if it doesn't cut the mustard you can always add a GPU anytime you like.
Its hard to recommend a GPU at the moment although prices are starting to come down somewhat.
If you definitely want a GPU then I would just switch out the 5600g for a 5600 (non g and non x) and probably get an nvidia rtx 3050 as the GPU.

[mura_gadi]

Your probably right Russel, I am a little bias, but once you start dropping below 30fps at 720p its very close to already being outdated. As for buying GPU you are right horrible mark ups, but some really good releases coming soon and a separation in the market for miners which should help a lot.

I am a gamer from Apple II(e) days and GIS by work. So I tend to be a little dismissive of very useable home specs.

Maybe I'm just trying to confuse the end user with information overload so they sit back and think ... it's bad work habit.

*yes you could be a gamer in mono chrome

[rustigsmed]

I've tried to go for low-mid range and a best bang for buck approach which is upgradeable (ram | GPU etc) - its hard when you don't know exactly the use case. The system is upgradeable with a GPU the current low mid tier cards are power efficient 600w is more than fine.
It can do 100fps avg at 1080p in csgo in medium settings with the igpu. But yes underpowered for more serious gaming but it wasn't mentioned. I've got a 3090 and a 6900xt myself so know where you're coming from but in not sure its necessary for a standard build.

[mura_gadi]

I think you've nailed it.. Leon, we need your user case...

Building home PC's is a past time like putting together a dream holiday you never plan on taking, for some people at least.

But a lot of people spend really good money on functions and speeds they never had a need for. Or buy components faster than their slowest bottlenecks and of sorts of weird things.

[leon]

Many Thanks to all, I will have a good read of all your suggestions and go from there.
By the way I never do any gaming, just do normal computer stuff and need a bit more speed and only watch the occasional video/you tube thing.

Thanks

Leon

[mura_gadi]

Leon,

If you don' use CAD/GIS/Video editing or any vector based stuff you'll be fine without a card. However if I asked if you wanted to stream/cast 4k video to a 4k TV, then your requirements change. Give some thought to future proofing as well.

Think about the use case. I have a box that was designed to travel, attend drunken game nights, go on holidays and be abused by grandkids in the holidays. It is dust resistant as I knew it might live of the floor a lot and tough as it would get kicked and knocked around due to being in a temporary location a lot.

9years on the MB and box still serve me well, chipsets and video cards have come and gone. You can see by my BIOS/POST its designed to be kicked...

[mura_gadi]

In regards to your CPU, you are unlikely to run multithreaded applications from the sounds of things. That would indicate you would be better off with a dual/quad core operating at higher cycles.

I would suggest that you worry more about maximum standard clock speed and Level 1/2 caches sizes on the chipset over cores as your core use will be minimal.

[floyd_2]

Hi Leon. I've bought 7 second hand HP Z440 XEON and HP Z220 i7 workstations from Techfactory over the last 2 years. I've bought 4 for work, and 3 for home. All are relentlessly in use daily and they seem to be bullet proof in my experience. I would buy another one if I needed a PC. The price point is usually pretty decent, and the guys at Techfactory are straight shooters in my experience. They tend to offer 6 months warranty. Don't worry, I'm not affiliated with them etc - just honest feedback from a satisfied customer. So, you could consider second hand from a dependable reseller depending upon your requirements too, just as another option. Definitely make sure that machine has an SSD as the boot drive as a minimum as others have mentioned.

Dean

[leon]

A heap of great suggestions, thanks you all, :thumbsup: now that i am totally confused, :question: "it doesn't take much" I will have another read of what you all have said and go from there. :)

Thank you.

Leon :thumbsup:

[sil]

I won’t add confusion. I used to built custom graphic PCs to computer against silicon graphics in 3D modelling/rendering markets. Anyway what you can get these days for home is pretty powerful except in some areas where the software is bloated and not optimised to make best use of the hardware. Too many assumptions.

Even though I can build a machine to my desires I’m not up to date with motherboard sizes shapes and cases to suit and going for state of the art is impractical for most but the super rich and nobody cares a toss if you have the latest graphics card as it’ll be superceded with a week anyway. But because some do want those bragging rights you can find last years state of the art gear second hand cheap. But of course you have to assume a second hand graphics card has been well used overclocked and may have little life left. Then there’s those who use the cards for mining cryptocurrencies also greatly reducing lifespan. My last couple of towers I bought prebuilt from Scorptec and they have been rock solid. Their build quality is great with cabling out of the way allowing me easy access for upgrades. Important to me now having only one working arm to use. My main machine I bought knowing I wanted to maximise memory and a few other upgrades, so I chose configuration based on that and not able to pay for state of the art on each component. So I chose a high end cpu (since changing would be difficult for me alone) and a minimum of cheap ram (knowing I could afford a heap of quality ram in 6mths, drives i have a heap sitting doing nothing at all times. Anyway It gave me a machine that had some ram limitations for a while and a low end gfx card then uprading was dead easy to a Quadro gfx card and 128GB RAM at the time I had the extra money to buy best I could at that time. Its a great machine and my monitor is a calibrated Dell 37” which is a ton of realestate for my gfx needs.

So I recommend know your needs and wants for today and for the future. Ram is easy to change even for computer newbs, so maybe go for minimal amount of cheap ram today knowing to upgrade to more of better later on. More cost effective that way. I can highly recommend anything from Scorptec. Not only for quality but for customer service and they have a heap of configurations readily available for price points and they are well thought out . It gives you a working machine today and one you can add to to upgrade as money permits and you have to assume anything you upgrade is money lost so take that into account as total cost of ownership of the machine you want and work towards.

[leon]

Many thanks Steve I read your post with interest and will certainly consider what you suggested.
I get a bit excited about new stuff that I have never done before and also get a bit compulsive and then think later, must slow down and smell the Rises, so to speak.

Thank you.

Leon

[mura_gadi]

Leon,

Look at your MB future compatibility with the expected chipsets releases. I would suggest getting a board that will survive you at least two future chipset releases. The manufactures work together and the information should be easy to find. (buy chip upgrades when they're superseded and going out cheap)

As for dreams, price your dreams today and buy them in about 8-12months at 40% off. Stay behind the cutting edge and it can be a lot cheaper.
'
Seconds can be good if you check gummie, not a bad one in your area. You might be able to get a good rig 2nd hand locally.

Market option, not a suggestion.
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ballarat-central/desktops/msi-gaming-pc/1294272243

One thing about a mid end or better PC, you can AP edit quickly, edit family videos/photos, use video addons (Star Wars has a good addon, great for kids to make movies with), VR etc.

[leon]

Thank You Indeed Steve for your suggestions.

Leon

[sil]

MB future compatibility is only for people who dont need to ask buying advice, it requires specialised knowledge of the industry and is meaningless to everybody except the egocentric gamer rig pimps anyway. If you’re an upgrader you know the answers already and an astroforum is not the place to ask for high end industry knowledge. EVERYTHING has an upgrade COMING SOON and every little meaningless upgrade is tauted as Next Gen to make sales. Dont confuse the matter further. Any computer you buy today will be out of date already yesterday anyway. But you can buy smart for a good machine that works well for years at a price YOU consider fair. Theres no rules on prices , low end machines can be bought new for around $200, mid range for $500, fast gaming rig or good business around $1000. Has been this way for over a decade and continues to be so. But of course you can spec something cheaper or more depending on your budget but what you consider a good price point is different for everyone and your local asian computer guy will build you as cheap rig with cheap unreliable components and that might work out for you at the price. I know from experience a cheap rig from Scorptec is not made from cheap garbage parts, it may have stuff 6months old but who cares its new parts from good brands so reliable. Is it going to be the cheapest machine in existence or most cost effective? Maybe but probably no if you penny pinch trying to price match from others. But is it going to be a good machine that will last you for years before anything dies? Hell yes. Will you get customer support? Abso fing lutely. Just buy once and never regret. Up to the buyer to know if they can or will upgrade anything. For builders upgrading iseasy and for newbies its easy to cause damage. For peace of mind just get a Scorptec machine, avoid Dell as they preinstall crapware that gives you a slow experience from day one and is a security risk and is the reason Crap Cleaner was created to remove the garbage corporate computer suppliers add to their machines. Every scorptec machine i’ve used has performed far better than i expected it would. PLE and Computer Alliance i’ve heard good things about, MWave and Kogan not so much. But also depends how much of a crap customer you are to try to nitpick and wase the stores time. The preconfigured machines are well thought out balance of parts to work together and not overstress any part of the system. The prices are already good but come sales times you might get lucky with a reduction. Still the normal prices are by means expensive or a ripoff.

One thing to consider is most computers are sold without any sort of optical disc drive anymore so expect that an extra if you need one.

[leon]

More good info Steve, thank you indeed.

Leon